As a king, is it worth the cost of creating duchies, or is it better to simply have all of your counts as direct vassals? I'm playing William for the first time, and now that I have control of England there are several duchies I can create. Since I can only hold a limited number of duchies myself, without angering my vassals, I'm not sure there's a compelling reason to spend the gold on creating them.
Advantages of creating duchies?
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Prestige?
If you vassal makes the title you don't get the prestige.
If you then grant the duchy then they like you more.
It all depends how you want to play your game...
If you vassal makes the title you don't get the prestige.
If you then grant the duchy then they like you more.
It all depends how you want to play your game...
When I give duchies to people their descendents always seem to hate me, wanting more titles and such and rebelling and always JOINING FACTIONS. So I don't really like giving duchies out or creating them
I also don't like holding them because when I play I almost always use elective monarchy (just to choose my favorite son with best traits) and the vassals hate when you hold too many duchies in that elective system. I actually destroy some of the duchy titles sometimes because of this
though i have never played extremely large empires, i like staying small and helping ai , like helping byzantium take back their lands as Georgia or Ireland and stuff like that
and i don't care too much about presige either, it does not do much in the game besides as end game points (and that final end game point thing is pretty lame anyway, why would a random scandanavian family be more than twice the prestige of a byzantine emperor's family who took back much of asia minor and stuff like that)
I also don't like holding them because when I play I almost always use elective monarchy (just to choose my favorite son with best traits) and the vassals hate when you hold too many duchies in that elective system. I actually destroy some of the duchy titles sometimes because of this
though i have never played extremely large empires, i like staying small and helping ai , like helping byzantium take back their lands as Georgia or Ireland and stuff like that
and i don't care too much about presige either, it does not do much in the game besides as end game points (and that final end game point thing is pretty lame anyway, why would a random scandanavian family be more than twice the prestige of a byzantine emperor's family who took back much of asia minor and stuff like that)
Duchies are good and bad. You get stronger vassals, but also have to micromanage less. Really its up to you.
I think early on its something that you shouldn't be worrying about, its an excess drain on income that you don't need and that you be far better spent on building up castle towns and other economic infrastructure. But after about 50 years I find that I have a lot of excess moneys due to high tax laws, lots of economic infrastructure and fighting people; claiming the gold for sieges etc. This means that when my character dies and the heir inherits I find that a good popularity boost is to create the duchies and give them to my new, young vassals. Later down the game they become more aggravating sure, but I think in the long term it helps. I mean prestige is important, the more your character has, the more your vassals will respect him, so swings and roundabouts really, but the prestige bonus snowballs and is a useful feature in vassal popularity management. Another instance where I would create a duchy title and give it away, would be when 1 of the leaders of a country in the de jury duchy is planning to rebel/hates me/ demanding lots of things in factions etc. I would not give it to this individual, but instead give it to another count who would gain his lands and so the event of independence for example in factions would be removed, or another similar event would disappear. This would only really appear early on in the game, when your at your most vulnerable.
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For the de jure claims in certain circumstances and to have a neater, more organized realm. I guess with the new levy system it is better to maintain good relations with a few direct duke or king level vassals to ensure you get the most troops from a given region. Honestly, it is still probably better to just stick with one county per vassal for stability reasons, although in my recent 1.07 games for some reason I haven't been able to put this plan into action like I did in 1.06. It is often better if you have powerful neighbors to usurp or create Duchies to deny your enemies getting de jure claims but this isn't always the case.
At some point in game time if you are staying king level you want all dukes under you as vassals except obviously for your personal demesne where you will have mayors and bishops and barons. Having consolidated vassals means that your realm is easier to manage. Raise 1 levy per Duke, much easier. Easier to gift and keep happy.
Your Duke's should only have vassal opinion modifiers based upon traits and laws. Any other modifiers they have can be corrected. Such as desires xxx kingdom, desires xxx county, desires xxx vassal, desires xxx duchy, etc.
Your Duke's should only have vassal opinion modifiers based upon traits and laws. Any other modifiers they have can be corrected. Such as desires xxx kingdom, desires xxx county, desires xxx vassal, desires xxx duchy, etc.
how do you get them to stop them from desiring kingdoms without giving them what they want?
I try to rely on retinue, mercenary and demense troops. Big vassals can get demanding, and meeting whatever they demand cannot sometimes be done. I will share titles with the heir. I like to be able to eliminate factional vassals that cannot be consiliated. It might lead to some tyranny, and the need to cage all territorial vassals except the heir (if the king looks like lasting I cage their heirs of vassals too), but there always the next reign.
Do not personally hold more then 1 de jure kingdom title. If you are an emperor give it to a content same culture vassal. If you are a king then do not create more then 1 de jure kingdom title. If you inherit one then destroy it immediately. You can always create the kingdom title once it absorbs into your primary kingdom it will be titular only and no one desires titular kingdoms.
If you are an emperor you really only want Kings as vassal depending on how big your empire is and de jure borders and all that.
If you are staying a king the entire game, I sometimes stay a King, you really do not need more then 1 de jure kingdom title. It doesn't help you manage your kingdom better. It doesn't give you better relations with vassals. It can only lead to huge negative modifiers. For example multiple de jure kingdoms means multiple crown laws at some point one of your vassals will gain a title in both of your de jure kingdoms the penalty for crown law then stacks together. So the negative opinion modifiers can really snow ball.
The prestige extra kingdoms titles gives to as a King is meaningless. That prestige doesn't really help with anything. We are talking what like dozen prestige points a year. That is in significant.
If I am king or emperor I only keep 1 de jure kingdom title and I never have rebellions or factions wars against me ever. Pre and Post 1.07.