Adultery Issues in the Stream

[Trey353]

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere, I'm new to the forums, but I found the negative opinion modifiers that came from adultery to be rather extreme. When Alfonso's affair with a lowborn woman was revealed (something that certainly wasn't uncommon for medieval kings), he took a -60 penalty with his wife, more than double the penalty in CK2. Combine this with what I hope was a bug that duplicated the event, and she ends up with a maxed out negative opinion, presumably equivalent to if he threw her into the dungeon and tortured her. Later on, Alfonso legitimizes that child, something that would be a much greater threat to her and her son, and yet she only has a -25 penalty for that, almost a fifth of what was incurred for simply having an affair. This is the exact opposite of the CK2 approach, which gives a moderate penalty for having an affair, but stacks higher and higher the more the husband raises that child to be on equal footing as his true-born sons. This change seems that it will make any seduction character obliterate the relationship with their spouse, which are now more important in this game, and be more of a headache than its worth.

 

[KKrive500]

-60 seems rather fair since you're supposed to be in a monogamous relationship with your wife. Not to mention you are both followers of the Faith that looks down upon it. Maybe other religions don't care so much?

 

[Riamus]

-60 seems rather fair since you're supposed to be in a monogamous relationship with your wife. Not to mention you are both followers of the Faith that looks down upon it. Maybe other religions don't care so much?

Yeah, I'm sure the change has more to do with faith tenets than anything else. Adultery for them would be a sin and so the penalty is increased versus legitimizing a bastard, which isn't a sin in and of itself. Before, it felt more like "everyone does it, so I'm not going to be too upset over it" followed by "you're legitimizing someone else's kid to have a claim on what my kid is heir of?!" so the values were reversed in terms of which was treated as a bigger or lesser malus.

Personally, I think the new way is better and will vary depending on faith tenets, which is also good. -60 malus for the combination of committing a sin and sleeping with someone other than your wife? Sounds fair to me.

 

[Tuo]

It should also be noted that unlike in CK2, in CK3 temporary opinion modifiers decay over time, so halfway through the duration of that modifier, it's only half as potent as it was when it was applied.

 

[Olden Weiss]

Yes, do note that each Faith has different views on adultery. Catholics shun it, so the penalties are high. A Faith that accepts it, on the other hand... The penalties might be much lower or even none at all.

 

[Mackus]

What is unrealistic is that wife directs her anger at husband (who's in addition to being her husband is also her king), when in reality she'd decide that much safer outlet for her anger would be raging at that slut that has put her dirty hands on her man.

 

[Chlodio]

Bastard legitimization remains more or less unchanged? Wish they'd change it so that, legitimized bastards will always come after legitimate sons but before daughters. I know of no cases where a bastard took priority over his younger legitimate brother.

 

[Atalvyr]

Also, she did not in fact get the opinion malus twice. In CK3 events now show what effects have been incurred in previous events in the same chain. So when it said "-60 opinion" the second time, it was under the "Has happened" header, meaning it was an effect the occurred in a previous step of the active event chain.

 

[McDanny]

Also, she did not in fact get the opinion malus twice. In CK3 events now show what effects have been incurred in previous events in the same chain. So when it said "-60 opinion" the second time, it was under the "Has happened" header, meaning it was an effect the occurred in a previous step of the active event chain.

When they hovered over her opinion of Alfonso shortly afterwards, it showed that the malus for adultery was -120. So it does look like the malus fired twice which I can only assume was a bug.

 

[Lordlory95]

It should also be noted that unlike in CK2, in CK3 temporary opinion modifiers decay over time, so halfway through the duration of that modifier, it's only half as potent as it was when it was applied.

Thanks for the information, I wasn't aware of this. This is a really good little change

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

When they hovered over her opinion of Alfonso shortly afterwards, it showed that the malus for adultery was -120. So it does look like the malus fired twice which I can only assume was a bug.

No no, he cheated on her with his sister and a bar maid, so each of them give -60, I think this is not a bug.

 

[McDanny]

No no, he cheated on her with his sister and a bar maid, so each of them give -60, I think this is not a bug.

But the affair with his sister hadn't been revealed. There was no event to indicate that it had, and Alfonso did not acquire an "incestuous" trait. If the game was factoring that affair into the malus then that would explain the double relationship hit, but it still doesn't look like it's working as intended.

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

But the affair with his sister hadn't been revealed. There was no event to indicate that it had, and Alfonso did not acquire an "incestuous" trait. If the game was factoring that affair into the malus then that would explain the double relationship hit, but it still doesn't look like it's working as intended.

That's true, I agree then. I don't know if the event script take into account the number of lovers he has and apply the effect accordingly or not.

 

[Zhetone]

When Alfonso's affair with a lowborn woman was revealed (something that certainly wasn't uncommon for medieval kings)

What's your evidence for "affairs with a lowborn woman" being common?

 

[zorkman]

No no, he cheated on her with his sister and a bar maid, so each of them give -60, I think this is not a bug.

I think the repercussion of cheating with his sister would be a lot higher than cheating with a barmaid.

 

[Brent15]

-60 seems rather fair since you're supposed to be in a monogamous relationship with your wife. Not to mention you are both followers of the Faith that looks down upon it. Maybe other religions don't care so much?

That may be the stance of the catholic church but from a historical perspective monogamy was not actually expected among male nobles. Even some of the popes had a number of bastards by different women. Of course, the more religious would expect you to be monogamous but there was notable cultural acceptance for men who took a mistress or two.

 

[Pied-Noir]

Bastard legitimization remains more or less unchanged? Wish they'd change it so that, legitimized bastards will always come after legitimate sons but before daughters. I know of no cases where a bastard took priority over his younger legitimate brother.

Absolutely. I don't like that any and all bastards can be legitimized anyway - that should have been something locked behind one of the new religious or cultural perks. I hope it's moddable.

@HottestRod ?

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

Absolutely. I don't like that any and all bastards can be legitimized anyway - that should have been something locked behind one of the new religious or cultural perks. I hope it's moddable.

@HottestRod ?

I thought it is locked? There's a view on bastard tenet/doctrine I believe.

 

[Pied-Noir]

I thought it is locked? There's a view on bastard tenet/doctrine I believe.

Really, are you sure? It didn't look like that in the León stream. So now you can't just automatically legitimize?

 

[ShadyGuy_SuspiciousGoal]

Really, are you sure? It didn't look like that in the León stream. So now you can't just automatically legitimize?

Yep just checked, the bastardy doctrine will decide if they can be legitimized.