I found it pretty useless so far TBH provided you need to enact all the decisions first. But at the same time, I'm so bad to find exploits. Just that it's not consistent with scaling over the time and being affected by the ideas you take.
My experience is that that's not the case. By the time you might use it, you can just cancel the tributary, and then a few months later just diplomatically vassalize them. In practice, given the cost of the action (you have to pay 40% of their development as mandate) if you want to spend less then 50 mandate (if you spend more you'll get penalties), you can only use this on ~120 development anyway. You can already diplo vassalize anyone under 100 development, so why not just do that instead?
Unless they've over 100 development, in which case that would be impossible. Meanwhile you can Force Tributary any neighbor of any size, and this thread is suggesting converting a 1000+ dev tributary into a vassal, if admin efficiency applies.
I think this both overstates and understates the impact. If you’re using this on a 750 dev nation with 60 mandate that means you’re assuming > 75% admin efficiency. This is really hard to achieve. But more importantly, if you have achieved it then with imperialism
60% from absolutism + tech in very late game, so you need 15% otherwise. Giving up horde for celestial is crazy unless fishing for achievements, but you could still get another 5% as Yuan or Qing, so you don't need that much more. Still, this is a lot to get there, definitely not going to just casually diplovassal hundreds of developments before other nations could do comparable things.
Well devs gave that feature to Majapahit...
You need to pass the last Celestial Reform first.
I passed the last reform, although I did not have the Celestial Empire government (I had switched away from it through the event Siamese absolutism). Is having the Celestial Empire government reform necessary to convert tributaries to vassals?
Which was the last reform which you passed? There is a new last one which you can only see if you scroll down
That's the penultimate Celestial Reform. There is a new one called "Elevate Tributary Relations" which allows you to convert tributaries into vassals. You need to scroll down in the list of reforms to see it
You are very much correct that I under-stated the case for this. But again, this is not a late-game thing. The actual conversion is late game, yes. The tributizing can happen at any time.
But so what? If you want this behavior, In the current game you can make a tributary early, wait 200 years, release it, declare war 5 years later and full annex. No mandate cost. This is useful, no doubt about it. But it’s not game-breaking, and it’s also not hugely stronger if you can trade 60 mandate to avoid a super easy war.
Well, I agree that getting diplo tributaries + this mechanic is pretty good since it allows you to circumvent alliance blocks. It’s undoubtedly quite useful. But again, that extra usefulness doesn’t come until the late game, when everything is OP. Sure you can make a tributary earlier, but it’s still free to make alliances and block your expansion until you actually vassalize it.
