Admin Cap from Rulers and Leaders, Not Specialists

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Echo Candor One

Captain
19 Badges
Dec 10, 2018
492
840
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I feel like admin Cap is in a strange place right now and that it's super trivial to snowball tech by understanding when and how many bureaucrats to have. This suggestion is to help mitigate this feeling.

Basically, I think that admin Cap should come from Rulers (who are, literally, called administrators.) And possibly from leaders that aren't currently employed -- available leaders could contribute to admin Cap in some way to reflect that they are doing stuff, just not as hands-on as everyone else.

Putting admin Cap on rulers would make it much harder to cheese the cap and keep your tech prices as Low as possible. Non administration rulers, such as nobles, would add to the cap as well, but administrators would be the best at it, with the administrators of the Byzantine Bureaucracy and Efficient Bureaucracy civics being the best and, well, most efficient at it.

This would allow you to decide to build ruler buildings to lower your admin overhead, but put you in the position of needing research institutes or merchant buildings where you otherwise wouldn't want them. In other words, I think a far more interesting decision would exist than "which low habitability shit-hole is going to house my army of paper pushers?"

Megaplanets like ring worlds and ecus would, I think, need some more leader slots than they have - say an extra administrator every X pops.

Well planned, small habitats would probably become a way of dealing with admin Cap while also having a fair number of other jobs.

Admin Cap from leaders is an idea I am less fond of, but I think it's worth exploring. You're still paying maintenance on available leaders, so having them contribute would be good. I'm just worried that the end result would be people dumping energy into leaders only for the sake of admin Cap, and that there'd have to be diminishing returns of some sort.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Kiwibaum

Captain
43 Badges
May 17, 2016
322
394
  • Dungeonland
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • King Arthur II
  • Magicka
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • War of the Roses
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities in Motion 2
I am curious to see where they are going with admin cap. If they want to keep it as the only thing that holds back wide empires I'd say it needs to be extremely limited and not able to stick below it.

Leaders are one option and governors might be an interesting thing to look at if you somehow force players out of sectors more and thus having to decide between going over the admin cap or let the ai take control over part of your empire somewhat.

Another option would be to keep it farely static and barely growing at all.

If other mechanics are introduced that destabilise wide empires a bit then admin cap can stay more accessible.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

GOLANX

Lt. General
20 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
1.637
1.391
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
I've started working on a mod to test this idea out, settled at 5 admin cap per administrator for now but I gotta play around with it more, one of the problems with the idea here is that while you can't add many jobs you get a lot of free jobs from the capital I ran this through an lategame empire to get a feel for the numbers. Let me know if you'd like to share the mod and maybe we can work out the details.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

GOLANX

Lt. General
20 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
1.637
1.391
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris

Voila! for any futher discussion of the mod and to not drive the moderators crazy any disccssion on the mod's balancing or features keep to DMs

P.S. i didn't fix the localization so it doesnt say that they are adding admin cap, but it is
 
Last edited:

Peter34

Captain
50 Badges
Aug 27, 2018
395
507
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • King Arthur II
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
I am curious to see where they are going with admin cap. If they want to keep it as the only thing that holds back wide empires I'd say it needs to be extremely limited and not able to stick below it.
The devs have hinted that they're going to rework the Admin Cap system, to perhaps be Unity-based somehow.

I can't see how that can work, since Unity is a stockpiled resource that is already used for something rather valuable and interesting, but given that the devs are already looking into re-doing the system, it's probably not a good idea to speculate too hard right now.
 

GOLANX

Lt. General
20 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
1.637
1.391
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
The devs have hinted that they're going to rework the Admin Cap system, to perhaps be Unity-based somehow.

I can't see how that can work, since Unity is a stockpiled resource that is already used for something rather valuable and interesting, but given that the devs are already looking into re-doing the system, it's probably not a good idea to speculate too hard right now.
I mean they are actively looking for ideas so it's a great time to speculate, the bad time to speculate is when they write the dev diary or worse when we are all complaining right after the update drops.

I hate when people say don't make suggestions on how to improve a system when devs are in the concepting phase for improving it, it's counterproductive when the devs are in the most need of inspiration. They don't like telling us details if they aren't 100% sure that's the path, they tell us they are working on something but don't give us details because they want ideas.