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Eustreptospondy

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DISCLAIMER
First of all let me state that I read a similar thread a while ago and seem to remember that the devs explained that they decided against implementing the Slovak and Slovene culture, because they would get converted rather fast and were historically insignificant. Even in a more in-depth historical setting it had been argued that the native Slovak and Slovene had little impact on the administration of the province. I do not mean to insult those who made these arguments or argued in general against the implementation of these cultures, but I strongly disagree with them.



Here are my arguments for implementing these cultures (not necessarily corresponding cores):
  • Less significant cultures were introduced
    • Specifically I am referring to Karelian, which is the culture of 4 provinces which share 16 development at the 1444 start date between them
      • In contrast Slovene provinces would include 2 provinces with 28 development between them
      • Slovakian provinces would even include 3 provinces with 40 development between them (or 5 provinces with 53 development between them if you include the 2 Ruthenian provinces further eastwards)
    • This I believe shows that just from the economical relevance of their provinces, these cultures would merit to be included
  • Having the occupying nations cultures there (Austrian, Hungarian (maybe even Ruthenian)) can impact the gameflow when conquering these provinces
    • Let's focus specifically on the Slovenian provinces, which are here of Austrian culture.
      • Seeing as Austria as a nation is quite hard to exterminate, you usually cannot change the culture of one of the provinces if you conquer them, which would mean that Austria won't lose it's core on the province. Additionally Austrian will probably not be an accepted culture for the conquering nation, thus the provinces are of a decreased economical value to the conquerors then they were to the Austrians
        • This is especially frustrating when your plans of conquest include them. Even if you create a nation using the Nation Designer which includes these provinces, they will remain of Austrian culture with the aforementioned issues. Nations which are likely to expand to these provinces, but are then restricted by the Austrian culture include (but not limited to):
          • Italy
          • Croatia/ any South Slavic nation going for the historical borders of Yugoslavia
          • Hungary
          • Ottomans/ Byzantine Empire (whoever comes out on top)
  • Historical Accuracy
    • These cultures can be as historically repressed as you want them to be, but they were present throughout the ages and the ability to create different scenarios in the game should also allow for the eventuality to free the Slovaks and Slovenes from their historical oppressors, namely Austria and Hungary.
 
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starwarsfan541

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Interesting I love adding in new cultures, so which provinces would these two cultures be in? I'd like to add them to my personal mod later today.
 

Eustreptospondy

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Slovene provinces would be Görz and Krain, both owned by Austria and constituting it's south-eastern borders.

Slovak provinces would be Pozsony, Ersekújvár and Spis in northern Hungary. If you also want to convert the Ruthenian provinces in north-eastern Hungary, then it would additionally include the provinces of Zemplen and Maramaros.
 
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Hipster_on_Ice

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I think it's a great suggestion. There are a bunch of minor cultures that exist in the game without much likelihood of being accepted by anyone outside of their group. In addition to Karelian, Sami is another example of one of them, which has an extremely low development, all arctic provinces, and generally can be culture converted rather quickly.

If they do add in more cultures, it would make sense to add dynamic names on the two Austrian Slovene provinces as well. It would make sense for Görz to be renamed to Gorizia for Latin cultures and Gorica for South Slavic. Similarly Krain should probably have Carniola for Latin and Kranjska for South Slavic.
 
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starwarsfan541

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I just dont want to see slovak inside of the czech and polish cultural group ;s
What group would you recommend then? South Slavic?
 

starwarsfan541

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Or maybe magyar lol....
Remember, It's culture not language.
I dont know much about either group hence why I ask, I assumed Slovenian would be south slavic with its location and Slovak would be either west slavic or magyar, wiki says they are a west slavic people.
 

Mattius

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Maybe if there was a class system allowing peasants to be Slovak and the nobility to be Hungarian.
 

Phrajer

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great idea to implment those two groups

for the culture group, slovenian people speak south slavic language but they were in the "german" realms since the kingdom of bavaria came along in 9th centura and are basicly just diferent people of same customs (you can see it even today as slovenia looks basicly like austria rather then, say, chroatia ) so Austria should have them always accepted

With slovaks, things et complicated.The entire "Magyar culture group " is, by my and not just my opinion, redundant. Ideal would be an "central eurpoean" culture group involving Czech, Schlesian, Polish, Magyar ( the people of hungary are magyars (one of first tribes that came from the steppes and setteled down), hungary is the term for the area taht was devised by romans becouse the Huns lived there. By this mechanic of "latin geography" is the land Bohemia ( boi tribe that noone can even remember) and people are Czechsc)(sry for the amount of off-topic stuff) and Slovak. In ideal case Austrian culture would end up in BOTH this mittleeropean group and in german group as austrians have strong cultural ties to their non-german speaking neighbours while they speak austrian german, easing comunication with rest of germany. But that is just a dream i guess.
 

Zehir

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I think culture group covering Czech, Silesian, Slovakian, Hungarian and Polish is a great idea. To people who think having Poles and Hungarians in one group is a bad idea, I will say that those cultures had big influece on eachother. In EU 4 timeframe, they had very similiar customs and clothing. Similiaritis between these countries in that time born the famous saying - "Pole and Hungarian cousins be, both for fight and for party."
 
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The Comitat of Maramaros in the census of 1900 had exactly 545 Slovaks (as compared to 143.621 Ruthenians, 74.978 Romanians, 47.449 Germans and 42.403 Hungarians). Since there was neither a genocide or mass exodus of Slovaks nor a massive Russification (or Ruthenification) campaign in Hapsburg Hungary in the 19th century, I'd hardly see any reason to make it Slovak. Carpathian Ruthenia should still be represented by at least one province.
That aside, Slovak and Slovene culture deserve to be added. It would make expansion on the Balkans and acceptance of cultures a little harder, but the added immersion would be worth it. I know, culture does not equal language, but as long as the game value keeps being called culture (and not "political identity", "legal system" or something along those lines) culture should take into account the ethnic and linguistic makeup of a province.
 
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Eustreptospondy

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I think culture group covering Czech, Silesian, Slovakian, Hungarian and Polish is a great idea. To people who think having Poles and Hungarians in one group is a bad idea, I will say that those cultures had big influece on eachother. In EU 4 timeframe, they had very similiar customs and clothing. Similiaritis between these countries in that time born the famous saying - "Pole and Hungarian cousins be, both for fight and for party."

Whilst I think that this idea has merit and might be worthwhile to be included, I would be a bit weary, seeing as Hungary and Slovakia have a lot of friction going on between them in recent decades, with Hungary trying to give all Hungarians living in Slovakia a dual citizenship and Slovakia then trying to revoke the Slovak citizenship of those who accepted Hungary's offer. At the end of the day I would feel that this proposal would have about as much merit as Scottish and English being in the same culture group.
 
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