Adding Pacific Island Chains

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
I never ment the Ryukus, I ment that they must have known about more islands.

Be more precise then! Splitter!

Oh, and what precisely does "territory north of them mean" then, in the post you made-Sakhalin's already been discussed.

 

[Demetrios]

Presumably the Kuril Islands...

 

[unmerged(2238)]

Originally posted by Aetius
A good candidate chain is the Ryuukyuu chain (Okinawa basically) which the Japanese, well actually Satsuma, and the Chinese fought over during Japan's isolationistic period. It had a king and a sino-japanese culture and refused to come clear with who's vassal they actually were.

I definitely agree with that. It should at least be in the game.

 

[Carolus Rex]

There is this big peninsula north of Japan, the one that the Russians are still occupying after WW2. I think they had "discovered" it before 1419.

 

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
There is this big peninsula north of Japan, the one that the Russians are still occupying after WW2. I think they had "discovered" it before 1419.

You've lost me-the Russians are still occupying the Kuriles, and they took back the southern half of Sakhalin Island. What's this peninsula you're talking about......Kamtchatka, which doesn't seem to make sense given your "Russian" statement, since it had been Russian since the seventeenth or eighteenth century's?

 

[Carolus Rex]

What??

It was on the TV just a couple of months ago, that the Japs and Russians could not solve the problem where Russia does not want to return some peninsula to Japan.

 

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
What??

It was on the TV just a couple of months ago, that the Japs and Russians could not solve the problem where Russia does not want to return some peninsula to Japan.

They're still arguing about the four southernmost of the Kuriles. No peninsula there. Sorry.

As for additional Pacific islands, they're not really neccessary, even to help human exploration (I manage it without much, if any, attrition.) I'd much rather have all the extra provinces appear from my personal "bete-noir", PTI!

 

[Carolus Rex]

A few new islands would be nice, seems really empty out there, but we dont need to fill it up like the carribeans.

 

[Demetrios]

I do think that adding ten or so provinces around the Pacific would be a grand idea, so that a few of the more important island chains can be represented. There was, for example, no New Caledonia or Solomon Islands in EU, and they are large enough that they should have been on the map. Tonga already was a large and organized kingdom by the EU2 period (even going as far as attempting to annex Fiji), and it wouldn't be at all out of place to have it as a new nation in EU2 (Hawaii, the only other large Polynesian nation, didn't organize until the very end of the EU2 period).

 

[unmerged(5310)]

Lesbos

Well, although not in pacific, I think Lesbos in Agean Sea should be added. I think on 1419 it was belonging to Genoa

 

[Demetrios]

I've already suggested that there should be a "Chios" province including Chios, Samos, and Lesbos, with the capital at Chios and belonging to Genoa...

 

[sunzoner]

Originally posted by Aetius
A good candidate chain is the Ryuukyuu chain (Okinawa basically) which the Japanese, well actually Satsuma, and the Chinese fought over during Japan's isolationistic period. It had a king and a sino-japanese culture and refused to come clear with who's vassal they actually were.

The people were not Japanese. They are still not considered Japanese. They were a Ching vessal that were captured by the Japanese only after the Meji revolution?
The Kingdom is called Showu?
They have their won language until the Japanese occupation. Their language is then outlawed. In the closing days of WWII, they were told by the japanese occupator that the American would rape their girls and killed their sons if they were captured. This lead to a missive suicide attack by the civilians on the American troops, costing huge loss in lifes.
Most American military base is in Okinawa today. The reason being that the Japanese thought the having the bases on Japanese soil will defile their national sprite.

 

[unmerged(5000)]

Actually Japan is not claiming all of the Kuril islands. Only four southern ones. From the begining both Japan and Russia claimed Kuril Islands but in 1875, Japan gave up Sakhalin in return for Russian withdrawal from the Kuriles, and the Japanese held the islands until the end of World War II. The Yalta Conference ceded the islands to the USSR, and Soviet forces occupied the chain in Sept., 1945. Japan challenged the Soviet right to the Kuriles, and demanded the return of the four southernmost islands

 

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by Agelastus
They're still arguing about the four southernmost of the Kuriles. No peninsula there. Sorry.

I said that Emir!

The Russians I believe took care to expel all the Japanese settlers though, knowing as they did Western sensibilities.

 

[unmerged(5000)]

woops sorry agelastus , i missed your post didnt mean to be repetitive....

 

[Carolus Rex]

No harm done, I got multiple answers.

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by sunzoner

The people were not Japanese. They are still not considered Japanese. They were a Ching vessal that were captured by the Japanese only after the Meji revolution?
The Kingdom is called Showu?

I understand your position and I am well aware of the paradoxes in Okinawa or Showu. I am only interested in having more highly developed independent kingdoms in NE Asia. I think you will agree that Showu as you call it was neither part of the territory of China or Japan. I think you will also agree that both Qing and Satsuma considered them vassals. So my conclusion is that neither of them could have had legitimate control of Showu. The argument on what language they actually previously spoke is a classic problem in linguistics and since language is not modelled in EU2 so fortunately we don't have to consider it.

In the closing days of WWII, they were told by the japanese occupator that the American would rape their girls and killed their sons if they were captured.

The Japanese were admittedly callous in WWII, but so were most others and it isn't really relevant for EU2 in any case. And americans are still raping them if you trust american and japanese newsources

Most American military base is in Okinawa today. The reason being that the Japanese thought the having the bases on Japanese soil will defile their national sprite.

And the Americans are still occupying the several other island chains in the Pacific that were previously Japanese, Okinawa wasn't even a part of Japan when the bases were constructed. You could even argue that Japan didn't even exist as an independent country when the bases were constructed. It is also irrelevant for EU2. I pretty sure of where this discussion is going to lead if we continue, so I suggest we leave this discussion to one of if Showu or Okinawa was interesting enough between 1419-1820 to have in EU2 or not.

 

[Aetius]

Oh yeah, while we remain on Japan. I don't think there is any point in including the Kuriles. The Japanese didn't expand northwards before they realised the Russians might take over the northern islands. I think the first effort to start the colonisation was the founding of the harbour in Hakodate. This was around 1789. Hakodate was the gate to Hokkaido and the Kuriles were colonised after Hokkaido, so we're talking about a 31 year window of opportunity from the Japanese side. Seems hardly worth the effort.

 

[Owl]

unclickable islands

I'm all for more islands. We British are very fond of them!

But I've had irritating problems with smaller islands like Malta where it is almost impossible to click on what you want - e.g if you have troops there but you want to click on the province itself. The enormous God-like hand descends, pokes around with a 40-mile-long index finger and keeps on selecting the troops.

We'll need an even-closer zoom in function if we're going for more islands - unless it's just my computer that does this.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Yeah, a new level of zzzzooomm.*zoom sound eeeeee*
It gets annoying when say you raise troops but cannot click on the island since the troops raising dude is in the way!!