Adding ammunition as resource in HOI 4

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ironwalle

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Mar 5, 2020
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Hi everyone. It's my first post here, so I wish I will not screw this.

Probably it's not first time, you all see this idea presented to you, but still I want to present it with some possible details for you.

Guns, tanks, planes and ships use ammunition to fight and idea is basicly to add ammo as productable resource similar to oil.
It would be different from oil on some points and similar on some:
1) You need to use factories to produce it on normal industrial rules.
2) It also need to stored. Basic store cap would be low, so you would need to build ARMORIES to increase cap. Armories can be bombed, so you can destroy enemies ammo, by decreasing it's cap. Overflow production is lost.
3) Each equipment has ammo usage. Bigger and more advanced eq use more so:
Rifles - very low
mech eq, scout cars - low
light tanks, AT, AA - medium
medium tanks - high
heavy tanks, artillery - very high
Aircraft and ships also can use it for fight, amount depending on size of course.
4) Better tech eq use more ammo than previous versions by NONLINEAR scale, so tier 3 guns may use like 2 or 3 times more ammo than tier 2 (especially in case of inf eq). It would made always using best eq not always best choise, as you could strangle you military production by this.
5) Ammo use depend on what unit is doing. If standing still, usage is like 10% of base, when training like 30-40%. When moving also higher, than when standing (attrition), When defending normal. When attacking is even higher.
6) Every unit possess some own ammo store, it use before it use your national stock. Support logistical companies also increase this store by some percent.
7) Units with ammo shortages fight very weak, units without ammo don't fight at all.
8) Providing ammo for units on frontline cost supply cap of province, depending of actual needs of divs. So province may be able to support defending armies, but not attacking ones, making infrastructure more crucial.
9) Possible add attrition rule for ammo, depending on terrain and weather.
10) Possibly: tactical bombarding destroy ammo of units, as transport trucks are great game for aircrafts

I believe, that this would stop some pretty ahistorical tactics in game, like full front offensives and eternal blitzes, by greater use of ammo on attack than on def. Player would need to actually made offensive preparations and limit them to parts of front. Also reserves would made more sense by fact of possesing own ammo storages, so they can easily defeat exhausted attacking forces. Counteroffensives destroyed a lot of armies on WWII.
Also this would severly limit possibility of making super elite massive armies, as IC need for it would be scandalical.
And finally you can use your mil factories for something else, than producting another 10000 tanks into your national stock at end of game.
 
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Ribbon

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I'm fairly certain this is modeled by Supply already. It's an interesting idea but it also seems like it'd disproportionately affect smaller countries? You can already bomb Supply and destroy infrastructure levels to cause attrition/etc. I like #5 though.
 

FStefanak

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Ammo is already modeled via equipment losses / attrition, the system was designed as such. It is not immediately intuitive but the abstraction works really well if you think about it.
Look at the losses log sometimes. During offensives, attrition losses are so much higher than direct losses, and you have to keep producing equipment to keep going.
 

ironwalle

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Mar 5, 2020
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Problem with Supply is, that it don't cost you. Your units get it from nowhere, when we know, it not like that in real.
Small countries can historically use mostly inf, as it's cost would be very low, so they can supply them with no problems.
Edit: This is suppossed to go along with Supply mechanic, as ammunition isn't only thing you need to provide for troops. I believe, it would made this more important and interesting, as Supply would be more changing depending on frontline situation.
 
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ironwalle

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Mar 5, 2020
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Ammo is already modeled via equipment losses / attrition, the system was designed as such. It is not immediately intuitive but the abstraction works really well if you think about it.
Look at the losses log sometimes. During offensives, attrition losses are so much higher than direct losses, and you have to keep producing equipment to keep going.
I know this, I love when your tank div stupidly attack marches and you lose 10 tanks to fight and 153 to attrition. This idea is simply to made weapons not using magic to shot, ammunition for front was and is one of most important aspects of war, especially as during WWII armies was using more and more ammunition, that was also technologically improving and getting bigger making it harder and more costful to produce.
 

Zauberelefant

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I know this, I love when your tank div stupidly attack marches and you lose 10 tanks to fight and 153 to attrition. This idea is simply to made weapons not using magic to shot, ammunition for front was and is one of most important aspects of war, especially as during WWII armies was using more and more ammunition, that was also technologically improving and getting bigger making it harder and more costful to produce.
There is a logistics centered DLC down the road that probably will concern itself with this.
 

Metz

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Consumer goods would be a good one to implement as there would need to be a balance between the front line and the home front.

Also, besides having war support and stability, all democratic countries should have government checks and balances mechanics.
 
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Doomjoon

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Although the thread is a bit old, I would just like to add, the primary reason why I want to see ammunition added as a resource is training and drilling. It can represent an investment into the quality of your troops: how much resources (specifically ammunition) are you willing to invest into making your units as elite as possible, or on the other hand, countries that are unwilling to invest their industry into training and drilling will see the quality of their divisions drop. This is already partially done through fuel and attrition, but I think that a proper, direct investment through industry would make the system much deeper.

I think that drilling as it is currently represented in the game is far too cheap and not enough of an investment from your economy, countries today don't exactly constantly drill their entire armies, drills in real world are special events that are all over the news when they happen.

Training itself is also not something every modern country can do properly, with some countries having to just shout "bang bang" while "shooting" their guns for training.

For example, you could have a special policy that dictates how much ammo are you willing to spend on your troop's training, and drilling them after they're trained will incur a further cost in ammunition.
 
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