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Originally posted by Vissarion
Too bad we encounter all kinds of problems when trying the 39 scenario:( .

So far only those anti '39 encountered 'unsolvable' problems. ;) We had similar problems in '36 (like the tech for Tomar), but we found a solution. I think next time it should be '39, and we stick it out no matter what happens. If there is a tech problem with SU again - well, just overproduce CG for the given time by that IC amount and then get it via tech share.
 

Vissarion

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Originally posted by Tom_HR
1. Germany
2. Japan
3. Italy


my choice for next game

Tom
Sorry, we already started. Damn I didn't check here first :(

Next session seems to be monday in 2 weeks, as there is no suitable evening this week and Ise goes away next week.
 

juv95hrn

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Status report

Germany 1936-1939

Czechs refused to cave in and became a in the long run worthless ally. Maybe they can guard some beaches against the limited invasions allowed. Poland still stands and had basic fighters... lots of them to my surprise. France went down easily enough but made a good stand. I'm not too happy that they "got away" with their entire navy and their entire airforce and twice as many troops as Vichy. Still if this is allowed I have nothing against it. Holland is about to be overrun by Germany and her faithful ally Japan.

I would consider the first round taken by the allies because of the czech event, France's large forces and Poland still being alive. This of course won't decide the outcome of the game.

Next session next monday or when?

EDIT:
I will post the limited invasion rule from the DEG rule thread here. If you want to modify it go ahead but here it is.



"I am sick and tired of the way the game system handles invasions. There are no special landing craft units so you can use steamers to land your troops. Gallipolli was the last time it was used partly sucessful on an undefended beach. My point is that NO nation had the ability to land 20-60 divisions at once and supply them in a cross ocean operation around 1940. Even less, which brings me to my next point, the possibilty to supply these troops without proper harbours. Remember the Mulberries and German fortifications of French atlantic ports as Cherbourg?
As it stands now no one bothers to defend beaches and fortify them because the enemy can always hit you with too much troops everywhere. I hav discussed a solution with some DEG people that might solve this until action is taken in a patch.

Invasions:
To simulate the amphibous capability of the nations in the conflict there is a limit of how many divisions you may use in a beach landing at once. This number is the number of transports deployed on board divided with X. X could be set to 10 for a start but modified later. The minimum capability for all nations is always at least one even if you own less than 10 transports. To calculate your own or the enemies amphibious capability hit F6 and divide by 10 round down if more than 10. Voilá!

Do all your transports have to participate in the invasion? No, not if you dont want to.

This would have the advantage of making unhistorical invasions harder and defending beaches worthwhile. Brigaded Marines will be worth constructing as elite units. Supporting Paras could be wortwhile instead of building loads of useless transports.

Will this hurt one side more than the other? Well the allies will have to construct a large quantity of transports before the race to Berlin can start but I only see this as an oppurtunity to make the war run a more historical and longer course while making the Eastern front more important as it was. While the Axis get a respite from a second front the alllies will have an easier time defending in the initial stages of the war. A "West first" policy by the axis actually takes some commitment rather than the construction of a few transports and massive air support that can be used elsewere later on anyways.

Is this limit too hard?
Not really since you can use that ambhibious ability over and over again. Its only the initial attack that will be weakened. Right after you landed some divs your capability is free again and you can land the same amount of troops at another location.

Follow up invasions:
To prevent abusive reinforcements of a recently captured beach troops may only be landed in captured harbour provinces in unlimited numbers. A beach province can only be reinforced from the sea with a new batch of troops not exceeding the amphibous limt.

Supply:
The allies had supreme issues supplying their forces in France after D-day before liberating major harbours. HOI doesn't portray this at the least.
Maybe the following house rule would simulate the reality better then the current supply system.

You may send unlimited supplies to a harbour province but only x ships to a non-harbour province fx 3. With the limited invasion rule above maybe this rule would be totally unneccessary.

The object is to prevent 3 marines from capturing an undefended beach allowing the 60 motorized infantry follow up forces to quickly advance inland or capture a harbour.

This would make defending ports valuable. The effect would be that an invasion of a beach province might be successful but you will have some problems supplying large follow up forces. Can anyone say Normandy?"
 
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Actually, now were I had time to think about it - IMHO it is an excellent rule.


For the archive: Addeg 3 ended with a complete Axis victory on the ~17th of May, 1940, after the surrender of the SU.
 
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Vissarion

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Yes, the invasion rule is IMO very good. For Japan it can make a change - if UK does not remove all troops from Asia. Should I build 20-30 TP's ( to increase my capacity from 2 to 4-5) I would have to sacrifice a lot. In the beginning years Japan has only ca. 100 IC's to spend on research and production, and she really needs tech. I would think that Malaya and maybe India should be easier to hold.
 

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Number of transports divided by 10 was only a guess. Maybe its too high? I'd say a number between 5 and 10 is probably best but I cant really tell what would be the best. Experience will have to tell this. Still once you own a harbour you can ship in unlimited troops and supplies so its hust the getting ashore part thats trickier than before.
 

Vissarion

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I think that 10 is an ok number. Later in the war it will be no problem to build lots of TPs, but in the beginning you will have bigger problems. The ultimate solution would be a very expensive landing craft, or simply raising costs for TPs.
 

Vissarion

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Unfortunately there won't be session before Monday in 1,5 weeks, as Ise is going on vacation and we could not find an appropiate evening this weekend.
 
Mar 7, 2002
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Hm, if you take a stand in for me in *this* game, I will probably, well, don't know what I will, but I would be rather pissed. I just build up this nice SU waiting for the big bang.

So if you really want to play, start a new game, but don't let anyone screw my SU. :)

BTW - who cannot play this evening?
 

Vissarion

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I have no problem waiting a week for next monday.
 
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I can play this evening and/or tomorrow evening.
 

Vissarion

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How was your vacation? :)

I can't play tonight, so we'll have to wait for tomorrow.