Add transportation for Native Techs over sea zones please!

[yerm]

The inability to build ships as a native has caused many situations to become more difficult, but also created impossible ones. Starting a game as, for instance, Jamaica... means you cannot do anything all game unless you pay to be at least a horde from the custom beginning. The nerf seemed clearly intended to stop natives from abusing low-tech carracks stackwiping colonizers, not to stifle natives completely in some circumstances.

Adding access to transports (cogs etc) but not light/heavy/galley ships would allow natives to maneuver sea zones without giving the means to actually cripple a western colonial's navy.

Adding access to ships back and merely removing heavy ships (leaving the other 3) for natives may still keep everything fine.

If ships are simply not going to be added in any capacity for native techs, an alternative means of crossing seas such as a rebel movement mechanic for nations might solve this issue.

Allowing westernization off of a shared sea zone (without a land border) could potentially fix things eventually, but not for the first century and possibly not always.

 

[net.split]

Mmm... maybe a new type of transport, a canoe, that can't go into open-sea tiles (so can only go into coastal tiles)? This would solve most starting locations, with maybe the occasional blip in a Random New World (which is probably ignorable) while also preventing weird migrations & invasions across the oceans.

 

[grandad1982]

I was thinking about canoes today. As you say you could transport units but not leave coastal waters. Also they could have a weak (say 1 point) trade power. Natives having no access to any for of boat is just too silly.....

 

[yerm]

I suppose another option is to give all native techs -99% naval morale?

Just some way to solve the problem of a native tech island nation being stuck on their little island all game with no hope of escape. Right now the only possibility is to send a colonist to the continent and survive native uprisings to bridge yourself off that way. Awful.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

The natives could tranport 1000 men in canoes?...No
The natives do not have boats because it is not the same transport an army that 20 people.

 

[net.split]

The natives could tranport 1000 men in canoes?...No
The natives do not have boats because it is not the same transport an army that 20 people.

There were West African canoes in the 1300s that could transport over 100 people. Anyway it's pretty easy to read 1 canoe as 1 canoe unit consisting of 15 or so physical canoes.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

There were West African canoes in the 1300s that could transport over 100 people. Anyway it's pretty easy to read 1 canoe as 1 canoe unit consisting of 15 or so physical canoes.

Yes but, West Africans get ships, the natives americans are the ones that dont have ships in 1.10.

 

[net.split]

Yes but, West Africans get ships, the natives americans are the ones that dont have ships in 1.10.

What I'm saying is that with canoe technology it's still possible to transport 1000 people somewhere if you want.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

What I'm saying is that with canoe technology it's still possible to transport 1000 people somewhere if you want.

It is possible, but no native tribe used canoes to transport armies, no native made a naval invasion , is possible but would be ahistorical that native could transport armies.

 

[yerm]

It is possible, but no native tribe used canoes to transport armies, no native made a naval invasion , is possible but would be ahistorical that native could transport armies.

Native tribes moved through the Caribbean. Native tribes were not stuck on their islands until Spain or Smallpox put them out of their misery. Whether we're talking about the Lesser Antilles or Polynesia, they DID have ships that could move them around. The pre-Columbian populations on these islands didn't appear to evolve there.

A native custom nation on its own island (Jamaica, Puerto Rico, St Kitts - whatever) has no way of leaving that island. They cannot westernize because same sea zone is not close enough. They cannot build ships because they are native tech. They therefore cannot move - they have to absolutely hope and pray that they can shit out a settler and pull off a completely undefended attempt to get a colony to 1000 somewhere else. The French diminished native attack idea is not available on the custom list, and there are not low/no native uprising spots in central America as far as I'm aware.

I understand the historical logic, and I understand the real reason - natives would stack tech 3 heavies and drown the Europeans. Without any way to use transports, however, it creates a completely impossible situation for OPM islands.

 

[grandad1982]

It is possible, but no native tribe used canoes to transport armies, no native made a naval invasion , is possible but would be ahistorical that native could transport armies.

Well its pretty ahistorical that europeans can rock up with huge stacks in the new world too. Maybe they could get shafted too? Luckily being "historical" isn't the most important part of making a game so I see no problem with just letting the primitive tech nations use a canoe unit to move armies non-sea tiles. As net.split says just imagine it as a swarm of canoes if its a problem for you.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Native tribes moved through the Caribbean. Native tribes were not stuck on their islands until Spain or Smallpox put them out of their misery. Whether we're talking about the Lesser Antilles or Polynesia, they DID have ships that could move them around. The pre-Columbian populations on these islands didn't appear to evolve there.

A native custom nation on its own island (Jamaica, Puerto Rico, St Kitts - whatever) has no way of leaving that island. They cannot westernize because same sea zone is not close enough. They cannot build ships because they are native tech. They therefore cannot move - they have to absolutely hope and pray that they can shit out a settler and pull off a completely undefended attempt to get a colony to 1000 somewhere else. The French diminished native attack idea is not available on the custom list, and there are not low/no native uprising spots in central America as far as I'm aware.

I understand the historical logic, and I understand the real reason - natives would stack tech 3 heavies and drown the Europeans. Without any way to use transports, however, it creates a completely impossible situation for OPM islands.

They could add a sea migration, with some limits, for example you want to emigrate to Hawaii so you click the migration button and the population of your province will start to move to Hawaii, the same with your armie, that would last a few years, but I think is the best solution.