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Maxjw907

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With the edition of Vermont it is strange that Alaska has yet to be added. Unlike the tags of Texas, Vermont, Paraguay, Chile, and Venezuela, Alaska has its own colonial region. Its the only colonial region without its independent tag, and yet throughout history was closer to independence than one may think.
 
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Mr.Grizzly

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With the edition of Vermont it is strange that Alaska has yet to be added. Unlike the tags of Texas, Vermont, Paraguay, Chile, and Venezuela, Alaska has its own colonial region. Its the only colonial region without its independent tag, and yet throughout history was closer to independence than one may think.

The problem with Alaska is.... well... no one really lived there until after WW2, not to mention the fact that the resources that we know exist there today weren't discovered until the Americans took over.
 

Maxjw907

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The problem with Alaska is.... well... no one really lived there until after WW2, not to mention the fact that the resources that we know exist there today weren't discovered until the Americans took over.
The Russians colonized it during the EU4 timeline and it is represented in later start dates. Its not really about the resources or even the history, even though those are important aspects. But it is strange that every colonial region gets its own independent tag except for the Alaskan colonial region.
 

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Every colonial region should have at least one colonial foundable, and I guess Alaska is the best choice.
 

AlBa19nl

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Even if historical reasons for adding Alaska would be questionable (I'm by no means an expert on this, I haven't looked into it) there needs to be something there. it would be strange for a colonial nation that just fought a war to break free from its overlord to keep using said overlords flag and a name like overlords Cascadia or something. In my opinion Alaska would be the best choice but there needs to at least be something.
 

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The Russians colonized it during the EU4 timeline and it is represented in later start dates. Its not really about the resources or even the history, even though those are important aspects. But it is strange that every colonial region gets its own independent tag except for the Alaskan colonial region.
Russian settlers in Alaska never really numbered more than 530 or so, which is hardly significant. Most of the lasting impact from Russian colonization is the fact that many Alaskan Creoles and natives in the area follow Eastern Orthodoxy, coupled with the a few churches, place names like the Russian River in California, and forts such as Fort Ross which is not too far from San Francisco. Furthermore, Alaska was never intended to be a settler colony in the first place: for pretty much the entirety of its history as a Russian colony, it was under the control of the Russian America Company, which was mostly interested in using it to exploit the fur trade with indigenous peoples, not unlike the Hudson Bay Company which had been chartered by the British in much of modern-day Canada, making it much more analogous to a Trade Company than a Colonial Nation. Even the Orthodox church did not show much interest in converting the locals en masse as Christians in other parts of the New World had, which just reinforces how little settler infrastructure and control actually existed in the region before it became an American territory; and that wouldn't happen until 1867, which is too far past the end-date of EUIV for it to be relevant.

Also unlike Vermont, California, or Texas, Alaska was never an independent state before joining the US.
 

EasternTiger

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I do agree that Alaska was pretty unimportant, however the Colonial Cascadia region does need some independent tags. Maybe an Oregeon or a (British) Columbia tag would be a better idea. After all, Columbia also is a releasable in Victoria 2.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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The Russians colonized it during the EU4 timeline and it is represented in later start dates. Its not really about the resources or even the history, even though those are important aspects. But it is strange that every colonial region gets its own independent tag except for the Alaskan colonial region.

Yeah, I know about Russia colonizing Alaska, and they sold it to America 46 years after the game's end year because there was nothing there for them. And yes you could argue, "well actually maybe if the Russians had explored it better", or even, "lol the russians are big dumb, oil in Alaska", but frankly for EU IV's timeframe Alaska is useless land, and even the valuable resources we know that are there now, are useless for EU IV. And let's say it did exist, literally any other surrounding country would walk in and plant their flag and yeah there might be some unrest but the population is just not sufficient for the time. We are talking about 1800s or before, there is no industrialization to make living in frozen, borderline arctic, conditions.

Regarding smaller American tags, they rather historically existed OR almost existed. Vermont, Texas and California all existed, honestly don't know why Louisiana is in the game.
 

Maxjw907

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Russian settlers in Alaska never really numbered more than 530 or so, which is hardly significant. Most of the lasting impact from Russian colonization is the fact that many Alaskan Creoles and natives in the area follow Eastern Orthodoxy, coupled with the a few churches, place names like the Russian River in California, and forts such as Fort Ross which is not too far from San Francisco. Furthermore, Alaska was never intended to be a settler colony in the first place: for pretty much the entirety of its history as a Russian colony, it was under the control of the Russian America Company, which was mostly interested in using it to exploit the fur trade with indigenous peoples, not unlike the Hudson Bay Company which had been chartered by the British in much of modern-day Canada, making it much more analogous to a Trade Company than a Colonial Nation. Even the Orthodox church did not show much interest in converting the locals en masse as Christians in other parts of the New World had, which just reinforces how little settler infrastructure and control actually existed in the region before it became an American territory; and that wouldn't happen until 1867, which is too far past the end-date of EUIV for it to be relevant.

Also unlike Vermont, California, or Texas, Alaska was never an independent state before joining the US.
Its not really about how well Alaska was developed in history, but the player should be able to make it a settler colony if they choose to like they can with the other colonial tags. If you want to you can settle Alaska and make it well developed in the game, but you can't give them their own tag.
 

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Russian settlers in Alaska never really numbered more than 530 or so, which is hardly significant. Most of the lasting impact from Russian colonization is the fact that many Alaskan Creoles and natives in the area follow Eastern Orthodoxy, coupled with the a few churches, place names like the Russian River in California, and forts such as Fort Ross which is not too far from San Francisco. Furthermore, Alaska was never intended to be a settler colony in the first place: for pretty much the entirety of its history as a Russian colony, it was under the control of the Russian America Company, which was mostly interested in using it to exploit the fur trade with indigenous peoples, not unlike the Hudson Bay Company which had been chartered by the British in much of modern-day Canada, making it much more analogous to a Trade Company than a Colonial Nation. Even the Orthodox church did not show much interest in converting the locals en masse as Christians in other parts of the New World had, which just reinforces how little settler infrastructure and control actually existed in the region before it became an American territory; and that wouldn't happen until 1867, which is too far past the end-date of EUIV for it to be relevant.

Also unlike Vermont, California, or Texas, Alaska was never an independent state before joining the US.
Yeah, I know about Russia colonizing Alaska, and they sold it to America 46 years after the game's end year because there was nothing there for them. And yes you could argue, "well actually maybe if the Russians had explored it better", or even, "lol the russians are big dumb, oil in Alaska", but frankly for EU IV's timeframe Alaska is useless land, and even the valuable resources we know that are there now, are useless for EU IV. And let's say it did exist, literally any other surrounding country would walk in and plant their flag and yeah there might be some unrest but the population is just not sufficient for the time. We are talking about 1800s or before, there is no industrialization to make living in frozen, borderline arctic, conditions.

Regarding smaller American tags, they rather historically existed OR almost existed. Vermont, Texas and California all existed, honestly don't know why Louisiana is in the game.
It's not about historicity here, it's about balance. The cascadia colonial region needs a tag and doesn't have one; if you have a better tag for it, that works great. But there's plenty of alt history in game already, so even that doesn't really make much sense. There is no real downside to adding a formable to cascadia, and Alaska seems like the coolest one (imo).
 

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It's not about historicity here, it's about balance. The cascadia colonial region needs a tag and doesn't have one; if you have a better tag for it, that works great. But there's plenty of alt history in game already, so even that doesn't really make much sense. There is no real downside to adding a formable to cascadia, and Alaska seems like the coolest one (imo).

Alternate history works when the change in history happens it needs to happen for a reason and be possible, Alaska quite frankly was horrible and no one really liked living there except maybe a couple people. Why live in Alaska when south of that is much better? I already said in a different post here that if we really need a tag in Cascadia, just make a generic Cascadia tag or make Columbia, not Colombia, they are different.
 

Eruth

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Alternate history works when the change in history happens it needs to happen for a reason and be possible, Alaska quite frankly was horrible and no one really liked living there except maybe a couple people. Why live in Alaska when south of that is much better? I already said in a different post here that if we really need a tag in Cascadia, just make a generic Cascadia tag or make Columbia, not Colombia, they are different.
I don't understand your "no one lives there" argument. If we were talking about adding provinces there it would make sense but we are talking about a tag for those provinces. If you can form the tag there are clearly people living there.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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I don't understand your "no one lives there" argument. If we were talking about adding provinces there it would make sense but we are talking about a tag for those provinces. If you can form the tag there are clearly people living there.

I don't understand your obsession with Alaska because "we need a tag" argument. I already said if we need a tag in the Cascadia region just make a fictional tag, because that's what an Alaska tag would be too, or even better, in my opinion, make Columbia. Also the argument about "people live there in game so we should be able to form it", that's a problem the game has right now with certain parts of the world being colonizable when frankly for EU IV's time those places were horrible to live in. To this day places like Labrador in Canada, which is colonizable in game, barely anyone lived there before and still to this day it's a very small population. And development doesn't represent population and unless you're proposing that frozen Alaska in 1527 or whatever is going to develop industrialization before anyone else and out of nothing then the population is going to be quite small. Last thing I'll say on this is why the hell would you even want a state in Alaska, you'd have no development and horrible resources, since EU IV doesn't represent oil. You'd move south, to the region of Columbia :eek: and live in the more habitable land, which is represented by not having the arctic province modifier and higher base development.

When suggesting a new tag it needs to rather be a country that did exist during the time frame or shortly after or a regional tag that unites a culture group. Examples of post-colonial nation formables that work would be Acadia, Cuba, Yucatan or Florida to name a few.
 
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Eruth

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I don't understand your obsession with Alaska because "we need a tag" argument. I already said if we need a tag in the Cascadia region just make a fictional tag, because that's what an Alaska tag would be too, or even better, in my opinion, make Colombia. Also the argument about "people live there in game so we should be able to form it", that's a problem the game has right now with certain parts of the world being colonizable when frankly for EU IV's time those places were horrible to live in. To this day places like Labrador in Canada, which is colonizable in game, barely anyone lived there before and still to this day it's a very small population. And development doesn't represent population and unless you're proposing that frozen Alaska in 1527 or whatever is going to develop industrialization before anyone else and out of nothing then the population is going to be quite small. Last thing I'll say on this is why the hell would you even want a state in Alaska, you'd have no development and horrible resources, since EU IV doesn't represent oil. You'd move south, to the region of Colombia :eek: and live in the more habitable land, which is represented by not having the arctic province modifier and higher base development.

When suggesting a new tag it needs to rather be a country that did exist during the time frame or shortly after or a regional tag that unites a culture group. Examples of post-colonial nation formables that work would be Acadia, Cuba, Yucatan or Florida to name a few.
I just realized that this argument is highly pointless and not worth either of our time. Cheers, have a nice day!
 

Ishmael_Dandalo

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If we had to do, make it Columbia or just Cascadia
Why not Oregon? As in old-timey "Oregon Country" rather than the State of Oregon. That way, you wouldn't end up with Columbia/Colombia in the game, but you'd have a tag that would pretty much represent the same thing.

I've been lurking on this thread for a few days and was on Team Alaska for most of it, but then I looked again at the Cascadia Colonial Region:

upload_2020-4-18_15-30-30.png


Although geographically Alaska is pretty big, most of the provinces in the Colonial region are in the south. I think it would make more sense to name the region-wide colonial nation after and have the national ideas based on Oregon, Columbia, or Cascadia (my personal preference goes to Oregon). Other than the greater province density in the south, it also seems strange to me to have a country called "Alaska" formed in modern-day Washington/Oregon/British Columbia - but maybe that's just my bias talking. That said, Alaska could still be the "Quebec" of Colonial Cascadia - formable if you actually own Alaska - in which case the two tags should have distinct ideas to make them real alternatives.

Just one more thing. It would be a crime if this tag gets added without a national idea about dying from dysentery.
 

Mr.Grizzly

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Although geographically Alaska is pretty big, most of the provinces in the Colonial region are in the south. I think it would make more sense to name the region-wide colonial nation after and have the national ideas based on Oregon, Columbia, or Cascadia (my personal preference goes to Oregon). Other than the greater province density in the south, it also seems strange to me to have a country called "Alaska" formed in modern-day Washington/Oregon/British Columbia - but maybe that's just my bias talking.

*Insert the GIF from The Office of Michael slapping the desk saying thank you*

In all seriousness it makes sense, from a geographic point of view, that if Alaska even did form, the region outside of Alaska "proper" would easily outshine actual Alaska. Regarding the choice between Oregon or Columbia, either way works for me, but honestly I prefer Columbia but that's probably my Canadian bias ;)

That said, Alaska could still be the "Quebec" of Colonial Cascadia - formable if you actually own Alaska - in which case the two tags should have distinct ideas to make them real alternatives.

Ehhh not a fan, Quebec shouldn't even be in the game, and if they really want to have a tag to represent the province of Quebec, then they should have the Republic of Lower Canada, it was a revolt that failed but did try to establish a French republic country in most of the south part of the province of Quebec and went all the way up to Labrador. My favourite bit of history about the province of Quebec is that it was the British who chose the name. :D
 
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Eruth

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If I may ask a dumb question, why is Cascadia a colonial region at all? Given the history of this area during the EUIV period wouldn't a Trade Company make more sense?
Geography, most likely. All of the Americas are colonial. Its and abstraction for gameplay balance purposes. It also keeps the anti-bordergore people happy.