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Martin_Mortyry

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As you can guess from my other threads I'm a great fan of Baltic history. Concerning the in-game I am all for historically accurate, but also aesthetically pleasing provinces. Therefore it pains me greatly when some areas aren't represented accordingly or, even worse, have badly drawn provinces, disabling any chance of pleasingly looking empires. The prime example of both thes issues is Romania.

That's why today I'm going to present you my suggestion on how the provinces in those regions should be redrawn.

DISCLAIMER: borders drawn by me aren't very accurate either, but they give a sense of how should the provinces look more or less. Should the suggestion get into the game devs will adjust the provinces accordingly, I hope.

First, let's start with the legend:
Blue stands for new provinces
Orange are provinces that should have their borders adjusted
Black is there only to show where the borders of province number 2 should be.


1. The Baltic
Although the region got a nice rehash in a few last expansions, the province redesign didn't avoid any mistakes. Here's how the provinces should be:

  1. Neumark(49): This one is here purely for more historical accuracy: this map shows how the New March looked like in real life(in case of EU4 the Land Krone shouldn't be part of the Neumark anymore). The current look is a little bit too pointy on its border with Stolp, moreso - these provinces probably shouldn't border at all!
    The main problem of redrawing Neumark is that it would require redrawal of all the neighbouring provinces as well. If that's too much of a work there's still one thing that should be changed for this province: its dynamic name.
  2. Walcz: I wasn't really sure how to call this province, but this name sounds good to me. Former Noteć could be renamed to Nakło(or Naklo, since you can't use Polish alphabet). Splitting #2963 is purely aesthetical - currently Noteć looks really awkward, it ignores the "check board" created by other Polish and Silesian provinces. It isn't too small either, especially if we include...
  3. ... Czaplinek - this part of current Neumark encircled in black should become part of the new province of Walcz. Parts of Neumark which aren't encircled in black or orange should become a part of Pomerania.
  4. Samogitia(271): Aaaah, this is something I've been fighting for for a really long time. Žemaitija did indeed have connection to sea. Despite not having any major port it was quite a blow to Teutonic power in the Baltics, as they lost connection to their lands in Livonia, increasing their autonomy - hence, the existence of the LIV tag.
  5. Mitau(1935): Again, something I've been pleading for ever since the announcement of redraw of the Baltics back in the Art of War, iirc. Right now Mitau has a really weird border with Lettgallen, it sort of looks like province 273 wanted to eat it! Historically, Latgalia shouldn't cross Daugava at all, Mitau should take all the land on their side of the river. Its borders could even eat a little bit of province of Braslaw, to represent the borders of duchy of Courland more accurately, but I think what I've encircled will be enough.
  6. Lettgallen(273): Right now this province is too large. Border change suggested by me presents the state of Polish Livonia after the Deluge.
  7. Werro: Probably the most controversial, together with the next one, province of all the suggested. The idea come from splitting Livonia so it could present nowadays borders of Latvia and Estonia. According to devs such a split would be ahistorical and would make the provinces too small. As much as the first one is right, I don't see any problem with that, the split isn't all that unlikely. I can't agree with the latter argument though - as you can see, this province is roughly the size of Danzig or Marienburg! If it's still too small for you, you could sacrifice part of Latgalia or Liefland(which becomes really huge with my changes!) to make Werro, or however should the province be called, big enough.
  8. Pernau: Shouldn't be a problem at all. The province is big, and doesn't make Livland too small as it's inherited some of the land belonging to Lettgallen in the current build.
2. Romania

  1. Srem/Srijem/Szeremeseg: Not a part of Romania, but close enough for me to include in the map. This province has been requested a lot since Paradox announced changes in Hungary. The reason for Srem not getting into the game is that it allegedly is too small... what about Ragusa then? It's just two or three provinces away from Szeremeseg and is pretty much the same size, if not smaller!
  2. Dobruja: As of now to create Romania in game you require, among other provinces, Silistria. Why? Probably because there's no Dobruja. Adding this provinces also allows Wallachia to have a neat sea connection, instead of struggling for Basarabia as their mission dictates.
  3. Tighina: Oops, I encircled wrong province! What should be encircled is northern part of what currently is Bender(2405). To be fair I'm not sure how should the province be called: Soroca? Balti?
    Anyways, what's the reason behind splitting Tighina, you ask? In result of Ottoman-Moldavian wars Moldavia became Turkish vassal, Ottomans also took Basarabia and southern part of in-game Tighina, including the city of Bender. I didn't present the split too well, I know - what matters in it though, is that Bender must be in the southern province and it also needs a nice, smooth connection to Yedisan, as it had historically.
  4. Bukovina: This province spanning through nowadays Ukrainian-Romanian border belonged to Moldavia until the Hapsburgs took it in 1775.
    I messed up proportions in the image above - here's how Bukovina looks like(Herta should be part of it as well, I think).
  5. Lwów(2961): redrawal is only a result of creation of Bukovina.
  6. Wallachian Check Board: Although the idea looks mad at first, there are a few advantages coming from spliting 3 Wallachian provinces into 6, most notably:
    -Northern provinces, placed on Carpathian mountain range, are great point of defense while fighting superior foe, such as Hungary or the Ottomans.
    -It will prevent, or at least slow down, creation of the Wallachian Metropolis.

And now, a little bonus suggestion:
3. Add the province o Chełm.

Every time I was looking at map of Poland in EU4 I knew there's still something wrong. At last I've realised what it lacks - a little province piercing through Lithuania, between Brest(277) and Volhynia(279)! Here's map showing Chełm's exact position, you can easily distinguish provinces of Belz, Brest and Lublin.
On the image above possible area of province of Chelm is encircled in blue: it splits Brasta in half and takes a bit of land from Volhynia and Pinsk. By the way I decided to change borders of the neigbouring provinces to fit with the new province. The only thing I consider failure in this picture is how Pinsk came to look. Hopefully Paradox will find a way to fix that if they decide to add Chełm into the game!
 
Last edited:

Martin_Mortyry

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AirikrStrife

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I made my own suggestion fro Romania a while ago: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/legend-of-the-dragon-romania-fixes.924592/

Although Bukovina didn't exist in 1444 it's needed to make later dates accurate. I think you split Wallachia and Moldova into too many provinces though. I agree it's a problematic situation with Wallachia having no depth of field, but 6 provinces for such a small country is probably too many, thus I only split the capitol into 2 provinces.

Dobrodja should become a new province but should be Turkish at start. Wallachia lost it in early 15th century. Should have wallachian core though.

I would like to see new provinces in the baltics and you border changes looks very neat.
 

Martin_Mortyry

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I think you split Wallachia and Moldova into too many provinces though. I agree it's a problematic situation with Wallachia having no depth of field, but 6 provinces for such a small country is probably too many, thus I only split the capitol into 2 provinces.
With Wallachia that's a solution, but I disagree about Moldavia. Both Moldavian provinces suggested by me have a historical reason behind them. By the way, you seem to be Romanian so could you tell me - what do you think the northern part of Tighina should be called?

Dobrodja should become a new province but should be Turkish at start. Wallachia lost it in early 15th century. Should have wallachian core though.
I am fully aware of that.

ould like to see new provinces in the baltics and you border changes looks very neat.
Thank you very much! :D
 

AirikrStrife

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With Wallachia that's a solution, but I disagree about Moldavia. Both Moldavian provinces suggested by me have a historical reason behind them. By the way, you seem to be Romanian so could you tell me - what do you think the northern part of Tighina should be called?


I am fully aware of that.


Thank you very much! :D
Sorry I'm not romanian, quite far off although I will be travelling in Romania/Moldova/Transnistria and Odessa Oblast in Ukraine for most of the summer so I spent a lot of time researching that region. Ask Thrac, the guy who posted on my thread. He seems to be Romanian and made a post himself a while ago calling for the numbers of provinces you also suggest.

I haven't found maps detailing an ottoman direct expansion that far north. Although I do know that Bender was under Ottoman occupation in the early 18th century when Karl XII found refuge afte the battle of Poltava. I still doubt making Moldova that big. If anything Bessarabia/Budjak should get their borders adjusted northwards since after the creation of Dobrodja it has become very small.
 

AirikrStrife

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I'm currently reading an old swedish travel book about Romania which tells a lot of history and came across mentions of a Genoese colony in the Danube delta. I don't find much detailed information about it anywhere more than it was conquered by the ottomans during Stefan cel Mare's reign and Stefan then built Chilia Novou in modern day Budjak Ukraine just north. A genoese trade city in western black sea would be an intersting addition to the game I dare say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilia_Veche
 

Lehnaru

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These are some great ideas. I hope they get dev attention! The borders as they are currently are less than ideal...
 

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These are some good changes, however the provinces in between Brandenburg, Pomerania, and Poland are a bit small.
 

Martin_Mortyry

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These are some good changes, however the provinces in between Brandenburg, Pomerania, and Poland are a bit small.
The black "province" #3 is part of Wałcz, not a separate province, and parts of Teutonic Neumark that are not encircled in orange should be rendered to Pomerania - the actual provinces are more or less the size of Poznań. :p

I know that this map is not entirely clear - territories around Neumark are particularly tricky here, I guess Western Pomerania could use some reshaping too. And again, Wałcz should resemble the Land Krone from this map rather than what I've actually encircled.

Perhaps I should make another update of this thread? Nah, it's not worth it for one province - maybe once I come up with something reasonable for Pomerania.
 

Metz

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Mitau is also a bit too long, maybe cut part of the tail and give it to Lettgallen?
 

123e55

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Woah, what a necroposting!I'm glad this happened anyways, it seems like a good idea...
Regarding the Romania area, well, it really needs some improvements as you said, though I don't think wallachia should have so many provinces. The province where you wrote (6) is a good province tho, and Giurgiu could be the most appropiate name for it.
(2) is also a good idea which I don't understand why didn't got implemented. Real-life Silistre is such a small part of in-game Silistre. I would split it in 3 parts: Constanta,Tulcea and Silistre. Maybe Tulcea is a good candidate for a 'Danube Estuary' modifier?
I guess Balti is a good name for the (3) province.
Maybe Cernauti/Suceava would be a better name for 1444 province of (4).
That's all I would change at Romania,really. I hope this thread will get at leat a response from a dev, but as this thread is so old, I doubt..
(romanian here)
 

Metz

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Bulgaria is also a bit light in terms of provinces and Epirus should be cut in two.
 

Mingmung

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Woah, what a necroposting!I'm glad this happened anyways, it seems like a good idea...
Regarding the Romania area, well, it really needs some improvements as you said, though I don't think wallachia should have so many provinces. The province where you wrote (6) is a good province tho, and Giurgiu could be the most appropiate name for it.
(2) is also a good idea which I don't understand why didn't got implemented. Real-life Silistre is such a small part of in-game Silistre. I would split it in 3 parts: Constanta,Tulcea and Silistre. Maybe Tulcea is a good candidate for a 'Danube Estuary' modifier?
I guess Balti is a good name for the (3) province.
Maybe Cernauti/Suceava would be a better name for 1444 province of (4).
That's all I would change at Romania,really. I hope this thread will get at leat a response from a dev, but as this thread is so old, I doubt..
(romanian here)
Regarding Silistre, the Ottoman Eyalet of Silistra was quite a large administrative division later on. Hence it's name, I guess.

The map suggestions are all great though and very realistic. Probably won't affect gameplay all that much either.
 

123e55

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Regarding Silistre, the Ottoman Eyalet of Silispng) was quite a large administrative division later on. Hence it's name, I guess.
Didn't know that,thanks for replying!
I've searched silistra elayet on Wikipedia , and found that it was only estabilished at 1593. And if this is the elayet you're talking about (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Silistra_Eyalet,_Ottoman_Empire_(1609).png) , then it is so much bigger than the in-game province.
And yes , it won't affect gameplay so much , but if they add too many provinces then other players will rant about how other regions deserve more provinces than Wallachia or whatever.
 

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About the changes in the Baltics / Estonia - Latvia, was a good thread some time ago: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-changes-in-baltic-sea.1003803/#post-22562267

I argue for a splitting of the Liefland province, because of the Latvian Tag which is not representing the Livonian heritage as a finno-ugric nation properly and thus is not historically correct as i show in the above thread. Same about the Latvian tag for the Dörpt / Tartu region, which also should be Estonian. To have a better balance between Latvian and Estonian provinces, maybe adding Pernau is actually a good solution :)