Add Nestorian/Asyrian Christianity

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tkamin

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I would like to propose adding a new branch of Christianity to the game: Nestorain/Asyrian Christianity. I am suggestion it for two reasonse:
1. Historical accuracy (minor): As far as I know this relgion was still present on Socotra in 1444.
2. CK2-EU4 conversion improvment (major): Currently (after introduction of Ibadi/Coptic) the Nestorian is only main branch religion from CK2 that does not convert to a separate full-fledged religion in EU4, so that will provide a major improvement to conversion process.

I asked for improvment conversion for this religion in CK2 forum and received following response, that led me to creation of this thread.
Before Coptic or Ibadi was added to EU4 those religions were independent in CK2 but were still converted to Orthodox or Sunni. I am not going to treat Nestorian any different.
If you want it independent in EU4, complain on the EU4 team and it will be made independent.
Full discussion on this topic starts on page 6 of following thread http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?829854-Crusader-Kings-II-2.3.2-PATCH-RELEASED-Checksum-MMUR-NOT-for-problem-reports!/page6
 
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Grand Historian

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Upon doing some more research, I believe that what constitutes as Diyarbakir had a significant enough Assyrian population in 1444 to be considered Nestorian (and even in the following centuries) to constitute as a majority - for starters, there's no records I could find of Tamerlane massacring its population as he did with other indigenous centers of Christianity across the Middle East (which, in conjunction with the anti-Coptic riots that broke out in Egypt a few decades before he arrived in the Mid-East, nearly exterminated any Christian presence in the Levant until the Ottomans would establish their rule across it), which turned Assyrians from still being the dominant population in northern Mesopotamia into a sizeable minority that struggled to survive.

So, if Nestorian is added in, Socotra would be definite, and Diyarbakir should follow along with a possible Akkadian/Assyrian culture, and both should start off as owned by the Dhimmi estate to avoid being converted away in three years tops.

As for what bonus' Nestorianism could give, I would suggest -10% Advisor Cost, as Nestorian scientists and scholars were valued all across Asia and were frequently employed by both the courts of the Caliphate and Imperial China, and +1 Tolerance of Heathens, as Nestorians were one of the largest proselytizers of the Medieval Ages and, isolated as they were, frequently interacted, intermingled with and worked for said heathens. It would also give pretty decent synergy with Humanist Ideas - and throw in the -2% Local Missionary Strength modifier for good measure.

Coptic should also be renamed Miaphysite.
 
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AirikrStrife

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As far as I'm able to find out it's unlikely that Diyarbakir would have a majority of Assyrians/Arameans (akkadians belongs to a competly different era). A large amound of christians of various faiths in the region were massacred after the fall of the county of Edessa. I have myself been trying to motivate the creation of an Assyrian culture in the game for my own mod(s) focusing on the christian states and peoples in the middle east and surrounding area (northeastern africa and the black sea region). I have found very little support for a assyrian cultured province while the size of the provinces are as big as they are now. Either a special province should be carved out for them or the developers have to take a creative license in making a few provinces assyrian (the game is already doing that from time to time). But for gameplay reason I think they're unlikely to comply since a lot of cultures and countries are alreadycramped into the assyrian area which are now divided up by the sheep turkomans.

I think however that that shouldn't stop paradox from trying to do something with the possibilities. As I was talking about in a thread about egyptian copts, there should be the possibility to use the convert to former culture option to convert to cultures which are still existing but not dominant in any areas.

On another note concerning Diyarbekir. Assyrians actually belong to two different groups of churches, there are assyrian churches connected to the miaphysite christianity of egypt and armenia and then there are the assyrian church of the east with a doctrine related to nestorianism but however in itself not per se a nestorian church. If diyarbekir where to change religion it would most likely be miaphysite/coptic and not nestorian.
 
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FleetingRain

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I think however that that shouldn't stop paradox from trying to do something with the possibilities. As I was talking about in a thread about egyptian copts, there should be the possibility to use the convert to former culture option to convert to cultures which are still existing but not dominant in any areas.

I'm going to bed right now, but tomorrow I might test this out. I believe it would be possible using the history files (make a province Assyrian, then add something like 1400.1.1 = { culture = turkish }. The province would start the game as Turkish but be able to be converted to Assyrian.


EDIT-- Welp nvm, tried it already and doesn't work.
 
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Grand Historian

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As far as I'm able to find out it's unlikely that Diyarbakir would have a majority of Assyrians/Arameans (akkadians belongs to a competly different era). A large amound of christians of various faiths in the region were massacred after the fall of the county of Edessa.

Yes, but Diyarbakir appears to be an exception - as its population would later be massacred over the following (17th-19th) centuries.

I'm going to bed right now, but tomorrow I might test this out. I believe it would be possible using the history files (make a province Assyrian, then add something like 1400.1.1 = { culture = turkish }. The province would start the game as Turkish but be able to be converted to Assyrian.


EDIT-- Welp nvm, tried it already and doesn't work.

Yeah, it needs to already start out as Assyrian.
 

jkchart

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Nestorian should be added, I agree. And definitely needs to be in Northern Mesopotamia in addition to Socotra. Add an Assyria tag and assyrian culture? Wouldn't be big, but neither are a number of other cultures or 1 province religions in nations owned by completely other countries.

Plus, finding a way to turn Nestorian and conquer the world would be awesome.

Edit: to make it harder to convert them as well, Nestorian should also get the -2% missionary strength per month like Coptic since both were never fully rooted out in the middle east and the Churches, even if the Assyrian one is smaller, are still going strong in those regions.
 
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