As the title says there should be a french colonial culture. Just like England has American, Portugal has Brazilian and Spain has Mexican. All the major colonial powers have a colonial culture except France. I suggest adding "Canadian" as the french colonial culture. When explorer Jacques Cartier discovred the valley of the Saint-Laurent he named the region "Canada" derived from "Kanata". After a couple of generation of settlers the population of New France started to refer themselves as Canadian espescially after the 7 years war.
Add french colonial culture
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could it apply also to french settlers in Louisiania and elsewhere in North America ? "Américain" could be used instead I guess
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I don't have much knowlage on louisiania so I woudn't know, most colonist that were sent by France were sent to Canada the rest of the lands were really less populated (tbh i find strange that there's no mission to colonise Canada as France)
Agree, but I'm not sure on the name "Canadian" because it lends itself to confusion with English-speaking Canadians. Why not Quebecois, or even "Canadien"?
On a somewhat related note, we could do with some colonial cultures in the Caribbean as well: Cuban, Haitian and West Indian for Hispanic, French and British cultures respectively. Hell, there are many real life cultures that could be added depending on the colonial region: Colombian, Peruvian, Argentinean for Spanish colonies, Canadian and Australian for the British, etc.
On a somewhat related note, we could do with some colonial cultures in the Caribbean as well: Cuban, Haitian and West Indian for Hispanic, French and British cultures respectively. Hell, there are many real life cultures that could be added depending on the colonial region: Colombian, Peruvian, Argentinean for Spanish colonies, Canadian and Australian for the British, etc.
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Québecois was not a thing until the 20th century it really sparked arround the 1960s as for "Canadien" it could work but I think it would cause confusion in the translation of the game. As for other cultures it's really up to the devs, but I would like to see at leat one colonial culture for each major colonial power
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Acadian was restricted to Acadia what is now New-Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but would work as a colonial culture even thaugh more specific
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Why not both?
Popping up of a new colonial culture could depend on a state instead of a colonial region if we wanted.
Therefore Acadian could spawn only in Acadia, the rest of French Canada could turn properly Quebecois.
But not every region needs an own culture, like Louisianian, Californiano or New Zeelandian seems too much to me.
In general these cultures doesen't necessarily have to mirror modern countries, but could be more precise than currently. For example instead of having Bolivian, Chilean, Paraguayan, Argentinian, etc.. there could be only Platean and Andean in the southern cone, further north Andean shares with Colombian, then in Central America Mexican on the mainland and Cuban on the islands.
Some update would be definately good, since the current version is very simplified, having only 4 colonial cultures, like it's half-done.
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So for modern day Canada there should be two colonial cultures for France and one colonial culture for England/Scotland/Great Britain
France should get Canadien and Acadien, while these would technically break language as they are French terms, I believe a clear separation between English and French Canadians is needed. Canadien would spawn in the Canada colonial region. Acadien would spawn in a new Acadia colonial region, Acadia was more than what was described above, yes it had New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but it also had Prince Edward Island, most of Maine and parts of modern Quebec, I'll post a photo using EU IV custom nation to show its borders. I know some might say the region is too small for its own colonial region, thus meaning new colony, BUT, Acadia is only considered Canadian because of today, back than it wasn't Canadian and it was governed separately the whole time frame of the game and after until confederation in 1867.
England/Scotland/Great Britain should get Canadian for the Canada colonial region similar to Canadien obviously, but I don't know if a Acadian would work for Britain. While true the British could colonize it and have a British Acadian culture develop it would be hard to justify it in my opinion. I'm not for it but if it was added I wouldn't be completely against it. Just with the way the British colonized Acadia slowly at the same time as France and then proceeded to genocide most of the Acadiens living there, around 81%, and replace them with British settlers after. On top of that, even the idea of Canadian is odd, France was the first to have it and when they lost it the British called the whole territory Quebec, just named after the capital of the old Canada colony, Britain didn't call the land Canada until Quebec was dissolved and replaced with Lower and Upper Canada. People of British descent in the Dominion of Canada kept calling themselves British and not Canadian even during WWI, identifying as a Canadian was seen as anti-British which wasn't tolerated. Now, granted Canada's history is unique and that it was predominantly founded by anti-American and extremely pro-British settlers, so an argument to ignore the previous point against Canadian culture could be made.
Either way, the French colonial cultures are the main focus on this thread and considering its the main historical part of North America they absolutely should be added, British colonization culture outside America is a different topic, though I'm not opposed to talking about it still here if people want.
Figured I'd give my Acadien input on the subject : P
France should get Canadien and Acadien, while these would technically break language as they are French terms, I believe a clear separation between English and French Canadians is needed. Canadien would spawn in the Canada colonial region. Acadien would spawn in a new Acadia colonial region, Acadia was more than what was described above, yes it had New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but it also had Prince Edward Island, most of Maine and parts of modern Quebec, I'll post a photo using EU IV custom nation to show its borders. I know some might say the region is too small for its own colonial region, thus meaning new colony, BUT, Acadia is only considered Canadian because of today, back than it wasn't Canadian and it was governed separately the whole time frame of the game and after until confederation in 1867.
England/Scotland/Great Britain should get Canadian for the Canada colonial region similar to Canadien obviously, but I don't know if a Acadian would work for Britain. While true the British could colonize it and have a British Acadian culture develop it would be hard to justify it in my opinion. I'm not for it but if it was added I wouldn't be completely against it. Just with the way the British colonized Acadia slowly at the same time as France and then proceeded to genocide most of the Acadiens living there, around 81%, and replace them with British settlers after. On top of that, even the idea of Canadian is odd, France was the first to have it and when they lost it the British called the whole territory Quebec, just named after the capital of the old Canada colony, Britain didn't call the land Canada until Quebec was dissolved and replaced with Lower and Upper Canada. People of British descent in the Dominion of Canada kept calling themselves British and not Canadian even during WWI, identifying as a Canadian was seen as anti-British which wasn't tolerated. Now, granted Canada's history is unique and that it was predominantly founded by anti-American and extremely pro-British settlers, so an argument to ignore the previous point against Canadian culture could be made.
Either way, the French colonial cultures are the main focus on this thread and considering its the main historical part of North America they absolutely should be added, British colonization culture outside America is a different topic, though I'm not opposed to talking about it still here if people want.
Figured I'd give my Acadien input on the subject : P
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I don't think we need new Colonial Regions. What's more, actually colonial regions are not even necessary anymore imo.
Why? This colonial region would only exist to cater for Acadia, for every other country it would be of neglectable importance. Similarly there shouldn't be a Cuba colonial region, for example.
We could simply tie different colonial countries (and their cultures) to different regions/areas. This would help us to have more and nicer colonial nations.
The current setup works for Brazil and Mexico, because those make up a colonial region in themselves. But for smaller countries there could be more specific requirements, for example the aforementioned Acadia could be formed if it's in Acadia region, and Acadian culture could spawn if it was French, while let's say Cuba requires Cuba itself (and maybe Puerto Rico) as a base, and Iberian culture group to spawn Cuban culture.
For other countries, generic tags would remain like British Canada and Portuguese Caribbean, if they colonize these regions first.
This solution could help other smaller countries to come to life, like Texas or Chile, for example.
Regarding British Canadians I mostly share your view, but let me elaborate it.
What if there was a unified British culture added to the game?
Most of England, Scotland and Ireland always have identified themselves primarily as such and secondarily as British, in case they were "royalists". So it's accurate to have Scottish, English, Irish etc... but what if with the formation of Great Britain the primary culture would become British, with this culture appearing in London, a bit like when Prussia is formed and Berlin turns Prussian. Since GB is an Empire, English, Welsh and Scottish would be instantly accepted, and colonies then would be British instead of English, which is great for later-game targets like Canada and Australia. It could also represent the royalists of (N.) Ireland.
I know this is 21th century, but 18th century could be very similar (probably with darker Wales):
Sorry for hijacking the topic a bit, but in North America French and British history is really interconnected, so I think it's kinda fine.
Like this, an accurate Canada in Eu4 could be achieved, with British instead of English, Acadian in case France colonizes Acadia, and additionally Quebecois might spawn in Francien provinces there.
Why? This colonial region would only exist to cater for Acadia, for every other country it would be of neglectable importance. Similarly there shouldn't be a Cuba colonial region, for example.
We could simply tie different colonial countries (and their cultures) to different regions/areas. This would help us to have more and nicer colonial nations.
The current setup works for Brazil and Mexico, because those make up a colonial region in themselves. But for smaller countries there could be more specific requirements, for example the aforementioned Acadia could be formed if it's in Acadia region, and Acadian culture could spawn if it was French, while let's say Cuba requires Cuba itself (and maybe Puerto Rico) as a base, and Iberian culture group to spawn Cuban culture.
For other countries, generic tags would remain like British Canada and Portuguese Caribbean, if they colonize these regions first.
This solution could help other smaller countries to come to life, like Texas or Chile, for example.
Regarding British Canadians I mostly share your view, but let me elaborate it.
What if there was a unified British culture added to the game?
Most of England, Scotland and Ireland always have identified themselves primarily as such and secondarily as British, in case they were "royalists". So it's accurate to have Scottish, English, Irish etc... but what if with the formation of Great Britain the primary culture would become British, with this culture appearing in London, a bit like when Prussia is formed and Berlin turns Prussian. Since GB is an Empire, English, Welsh and Scottish would be instantly accepted, and colonies then would be British instead of English, which is great for later-game targets like Canada and Australia. It could also represent the royalists of (N.) Ireland.
I know this is 21th century, but 18th century could be very similar (probably with darker Wales):
Sorry for hijacking the topic a bit, but in North America French and British history is really interconnected, so I think it's kinda fine.
Like this, an accurate Canada in Eu4 could be achieved, with British instead of English, Acadian in case France colonizes Acadia, and additionally Quebecois might spawn in Francien provinces there.
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I have been thinking about new colonial cultures and tags for a very long time now. The way EU4 models the colonization of the New World isn't great. It is fairly static and fails to take Creole and Mestizo people groups into account. The lack of a French Colonial Culture is another one of those grand oversights in the current system.
For a singular, European descendant French colonial culture, I prefer calling it 'Cadien' as that could be used to refer to French settlers in Acadia and the Cajuns of Louisiana. That versatility is what you want in a colonial culture name. As said above, 'Canadien' also works pretty well and is historically what would of been used. It was also not a British descendent term at that time. The term 'Quebecois' is a much more recent invention, outside of the game's timeframe. 'Quebecois' also has the implication that they are ruled over by Anglo-Canadians, which might not be the case in every play session of the game.
So all in all, use either 'Cadien' or 'Canadien.' They are the most versatile and most historically accurate. I cannot suggest two French descendant colonial cultures, as that would break the mold all other colonial cultures follow. And besides, one European descendent culture is enough. I would love to portray Haitian Creole or the Metis before that.
If you want to see a more comprehensive suggestion that I started working on a while back, click here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M4fGAcgI7tiFu_pQ4cg7bXsQmurrSSEG7VeVw2e-Qa4/edit?usp=sharing
Yes I made a spreadsheet, i'm that much of a nerd. it's all conceptual right now, so take what i've put in there with a grain of salt. let me know what you think.
For a singular, European descendant French colonial culture, I prefer calling it 'Cadien' as that could be used to refer to French settlers in Acadia and the Cajuns of Louisiana. That versatility is what you want in a colonial culture name. As said above, 'Canadien' also works pretty well and is historically what would of been used. It was also not a British descendent term at that time. The term 'Quebecois' is a much more recent invention, outside of the game's timeframe. 'Quebecois' also has the implication that they are ruled over by Anglo-Canadians, which might not be the case in every play session of the game.
So all in all, use either 'Cadien' or 'Canadien.' They are the most versatile and most historically accurate. I cannot suggest two French descendant colonial cultures, as that would break the mold all other colonial cultures follow. And besides, one European descendent culture is enough. I would love to portray Haitian Creole or the Metis before that.
If you want to see a more comprehensive suggestion that I started working on a while back, click here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1M4fGAcgI7tiFu_pQ4cg7bXsQmurrSSEG7VeVw2e-Qa4/edit?usp=sharing
Yes I made a spreadsheet, i'm that much of a nerd. it's all conceptual right now, so take what i've put in there with a grain of salt. let me know what you think.
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EU5 should have dynamic cultures and a new culture for every culture group in every colonial region.
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@Donlad
Good list. May I suggest replacing Afro-American with Gullah for your British/Creole culture.
Good list. May I suggest replacing Afro-American with Gullah for your British/Creole culture.
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