Add a better economy mechanic for the game

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Simon Marques

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The classic strategy games have always had a system of economy in which you had to worry about the production of food and also the payment of your troops and generals. About the military budget, a great classic I played was P.T.O III, it was a game where you had a conference with your advisors, ministers and military commanders every three or four months to define the distribution of your GDP and your resources (ores and oil, for example). The game with this approach for me would be brilliant, the player besides worrying about military problems would also have to worry about civilian problems.

Allocating a lot of resources and budget to the military would reduce the GDP for the next conference, the player had the option to skip the conference if he found this part boring. Everything I said could be observed in Koei's games; Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Pacific Operations Theatre, Operation Europe: Road to Victory among others. Soldiers would die if the army's food supply ran out and if they didn't receive their payments, they simply deserted. The player could also ration food, but this reduced the soldiers' morale. On the part of civilians, there was the option of providing social assistance to local populations in the conquered provinces, which reduced the chances of revolt by civilians and increased their acceptance of their occupation.

It's understandable the concerns of some of you, maybe you want a game with a simpler gameplay because you are casual players. Just do not forget that new things are added to the game in the form of DLC's, something you decide whether or not you want to have in your game and the game has several DLC's, you buy the ones you like.

So, continuing with the description of the mechanics of these mentioned classics... to make an invasion, it was necessary to define the necessary supplies, 5 thousand of food, 5 thousand of material (oil, wood, things that would be used both to build structures during battles and to supply their units supplies, depending on the theme of the clear game). In PTO III, for the fleets, transport convoys could be assigned that would be used both to be transported to other bases and for their naval forces to stay longer in mission at sea.

In this case, the logistics would remain basically the same, but now you would have to ensure that the amount needed to supply your units would reach them, so it would be important to produce food, if you reduce civilian factories automatically you reduce the food supply of your nation making it more expensive to buy food to meet the needs of your armies.

Soldiers spend food and water per day and spend equipment per combat, if your food and water supply is not reaching an optimal amount, the morale of these units will be reduced. The more civilian factories, the more food is produced, making prices cheaper, and the lower the rate of unemployment, the more dissatisfied the population will be, causing an increase in support for socialist parties like the communists and fascists. Stable and democratic countries should not ascend to ideologies such as fascism and communism that only rose to power by taking advantage of the economic or social instabilities of their respective nations.

How about add these economy mechanics that includes elements such as food production? Also add in the same expansion, the budget factor, money, the player chooses how he wants to distribute his GDP, the higher the civil investment, the more your GDP will grow, resulting in a higher annual financial return. This means more money, which you can use to build things in your nation's provinces. You will also use the money to order the production of tanks, planes, ships, equipment and so on.

It would also be interesting to add the possibility of buying and selling armaments in exchange for gold, oil and other resources, except for food. Countries with different ideologies may not trade among them in case economic sanctions are added. For example, the US imposed harsh economic sanctions against the Japanese, something that prevented them from buying oil or any other resource from nations aligned with the US.
 
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Add a economy mechanics that includes elements such as food production and drinking water.
[...]


I also feel like the rest of the universe should be realistically simulated. Maybe a system of astrology which could have both zodiac signs (Chinese ones for Chiang and Mao) which would be an integral part of the general trait system. The newspaper feature from Victoria 2 could then be added so that horoscopes and Sudoku puzzles could be seamlessly integrated as the realistic and vital part of WW2 which they were. Newspapers could then be bought using fanta and coca cola like Metz suggested.
 
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Go and look at Stellaris and it's economy overhaul
Then think again

Why, I think that the economy overhaul in Stellaris made it much more realistic and nicer, or am I missing something (I rarely play it).

In hoi4 what I'd like to see is more realistic factories and construction, with steel mills, light industry generating supply for troops, machine tools limiting construction and construction of forts & airbases not causing your economic growth to slow down.
 
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Lack of food and drinking water can cause attrition in both troops and provinces

Troops that are out of supply already suffer attrition. Attrition is also increased in desert terrain. (In jungles, mountain, and swamps as well.)

We can assume that if a unit is in supply, it has what it needs in terms of food and water. If it doesn't, then in the current iteration of HOI4, it suffers accordingly.
 
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Troops that are out of supply already suffer attrition. Attrition is also increased in desert terrain. (In jungles, mountain, and swamps as well.)

We can assume that if a unit is in supply, it has what it needs in terms of food and water. If it doesn't, then in the current iteration of HOI4, it suffers accordingly.
It could be simplified by simply putting one resource: the "supplies" present on hoi2 and hoi3. Troops consume supplies every hour (or every day). The supplies simulate wages, water, food etc ... in short, everything not produced up to now. Now I don't remember exactly about hoi2 and hoi3, but you had to allocate a% of your IC as supplies otherwise ALL the army had malus. And so the more troops you created, the more ICs you had to supply. This was balanced by the conquests and the partisan system present there (used up to LaR also by hoi4). There one would churn out troops after troops if he had a lot of IC (USSR, Germany, USA ...) if he was small, he had to play more on quality than quantity (perhaps researching different doctrines and uniting them) and aiming for certain research. On hoi4, it's all TOO simple ...
 
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but you had to allocate a% of your IC as supplies otherwise ALL the army had malus.

Having literally written the book on HOI3, I remember the supply system well. (Too well, it seems. I'm getting hives just thinking about the supply tax.) Units most certainly did consume "supplies" and "fuel."

But if you think you had to allocate a percentage of your IC to supplies, you are not quite right.

Supplies had to be produced by IC; that's the part you get right. The part you are forgetting is that supplies were also traded between nations as a secondary currency. It kind of made sense, but the system broke down due to economies of scale when major powers bought and sold vast quantities of material to each other. There wasn't a single game as the Soviet Union where I didn't more or less feed and supply the entire Red Army with Japanese supplies. Japan always wanted my rares and oil (since we were neutral to each other), and I was more than happy to sell them all the oil and rares they could buy. When they didn't have enough money, they'd start selling me supplies to make up the trade difference.

Everyone in the Red Army was eating Ramen and firing 7.7 mm Arisaka rounds apparently. :eek:

There were games as the Soviets that I needed to produce very little of my own supply until 1943, and only then because the supply tax was killing me as I marched through Europe.

On hoi4, it's all TOO simple ...

I don't disagree that supply needs some changes, but I don't think the game is as simple as you make it out to be. There were a lot of filler techs in HOI3, and the supply system was even more exploitable in some ways than HOI4. (Different infantry weapons for different brigade types, most of the theory techs in most situations, and the ever popular "it's cheaper to use transport aircraft to air supply the entire freaking eastern front than pay the supply tax" issue.)

I know unit spam is something that bothers a lot of people, but my preferred solution to that would be some kind of manpower "tax" on front line divisions that requires a bunch of manpower tied down in non-combat roles based on number of battalions, types of battalions, and whether those battalions are far from home or overseas.
 
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... I don't think food in any capacity is a good idea in game.
 
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Micromanaging will continue until morale improves!
 
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Don't forget the toilets: if you fail to remind someone that it's potty time, they'll become unhappy and will start a coup!

Why, I think that the economy overhaul in Stellaris made it much more realistic and nicer, or am I missing something (I rarely play it).
To keep it simple: the more time passes, the greater share of your gameplay is dedicated to micromanaging jobs (to the point when it becomes majority of your gameplay). Before rework it was the opposite.
 
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Having literally written the book on HOI3, I remember the supply system well. (Too well, it seems. I'm getting hives just thinking about the supply tax.) Units most certainly did consume "supplies" and "fuel."

Do you think the HOI4 supply system would be improved if supply, similar to fuel, was carried with the division and was slowly drained/refilled? Supply grace would be gone, of course.

Let's say that supply would still be "produced" the same way as it is now (for free, from your capital), more or less.
 

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Do you think the HOI4 supply system would be improved if supply, similar to fuel, was carried with the division and was slowly drained/refilled? Supply grace would be gone, of course.

I think that idea has merit.

The current supply system kind of does this already, in that the out of supply penalty scales with time to a certain maximum. But once you get back in supply, you reset the grace and completely remove the penalty more or less instantly. Having a meter to refill could (potentially) also slow down certain kinds of operations if it was possible to consume more local supply than you receive even while being in perfect supply.
 
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The classic strategy games have always had a system of economy in which you had to worry about the production of food and also the payment of your troops and generals. About the military budget, a great classic I played was P.T.O III, it was a game where you had a conference with your advisors, ministers and military commanders every three or four months to define the distribution of your GDP and your resources (minerals and oil, for example). The game with this approach for me would be brilliant, the player besides worrying about military problems would also have to worry about civilian problems.

Allocating a lot of resources and budget to the military would reduce the GDP for the next conference, the player had the option to skip the conference if he found this part boring. Everything I said could be observed in Koei's games; Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Pacific Operations Theatre, Operation Europe: Road to Victory among others. Soldiers would die if the army's food supply ran out and if they didn't receive their payments, they simply deserted. Soldiers would die if the army's food supply ran out and if they did not receive their payments, they simply deserted. The player could also ration food, but this reduced the soldiers' morale. On the part of civilians, there was the option of providing social assistance to local populations in the conquered provinces, which reduced the chances of revolt by civilians and increased their acceptance of their occupation. In any case.

It's understandable the concerns of some of you, maybe you want a game with a simpler gameplay because you are casual players. So, I would also like to warn you that I'm new to the community, I don't know if it's allowed to quote classic game names, please forgive me if it's against the rules. So, continuing with the description of the mechanics of these mentioned classics... to make an invasion, it was necessary to define the necessary supplies, 5 thousand of food, 5 thousand of material (oil, wood, things that would be used both to build structures during battles and to supply their units supplies, depending on the theme of the clear game). In PTO III, for the fleets, transport convoys could be assigned that would be used both to be transported to other bases and for their naval forces to stay longer in mission at sea.

In this case, the logistics would remain basically the same, but now you would have to ensure that the amount needed to supply your units would reach them, so it would be important to produce food, if you reduce civilian factories automatically you reduce the food supply of your nation making it more expensive to buy food to meet the needs of your armies.

Soldiers spend food and water per day and spend equipment per combat, if your food and water supply is not reaching an optimal amount, the morale of these units will be reduced. The more civilian factories, the more food is produced, making prices cheaper, and the lower the rate of unemployment, the more dissatisfied the population will be, causing an increase in support for socialist parties like the communists and fascists. Stable and democratic countries should not ascend to ideologies such as fascism and communism that only rose to power by taking advantage of the economic or social instabilities of their respective nations.

Don't forget the bathrooms: if you don't remind someone that it's potty time, they'll be unhappy and you'll start a coup!

To keep it simple: the more time goes by, the greater part of your gameplay is devoted to micromanagement jobs (to the point of becoming most of your gameplay). Before reformulating it was the opposite.

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I think your comment was very childish, I understand a lot of childish responses, but okay, if this is your culture, I can't do anything but regret it.



I've been playing strategy games, either RTS or Turn based for many years, I'm just suggesting improvements for another game of the type, maybe many are not used to classic RTS/Turn based games and find them boring games. I'm in favor of improving immersion and against management reduction, but I'm also in favor of the option to simplify management for casual players. You configure your game according to your preferences, a casual game mode and a more technical game mode for advanced players, and the choice of difficulty.
 
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Louella

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"supply depots" or something as a province-level building. Victory points no longer generate supply, only these hypothetical province-level buildings. Blammo, you want a large army, you're going to have to build the supply system to support it.


I know unit spam is something that bothers a lot of people, but my preferred solution to that would be some kind of manpower "tax" on front line divisions that requires a bunch of manpower tied down in non-combat roles based on number of battalions, types of battalions, and whether those battalions are far from home or overseas.

Service manpower for land equipment. Would that be a good start ?
 
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MobiusTwo

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I think that money and other economic resources would probably over-complicate the game. However, I'd be fine with food as a resource. It might even help improve late-game performance. After all, you can only produce so many troops as you have food!
 
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