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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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This is an attempt to integrate the leaders from Italia Universalis into the EEP leader set. I’m using the leaders of the Italia Universalis mod as the basis for this work, and although I’m proposing some changes I don’t want to underestimate how important that has been for this. To those who put it together, thanks.
I wanted to start by describing my belief about how leader inclusion should be decided. I want to make clear the bases for my opinions so that people can either argue the details of a particular case, or argue about philosophy. Either way we can be clear. For me the leaders who are to be included should meet the following criteria

  • [1]They should have served as army commanders, or at the very least to have been commanding their nation’s contingent in an allied army. If they have not held any independent command they should not be included.
    [2]They should have had some measure of success. If not, they might as well be represented by the default leaders.
    [3]They must have served the nation that they appear for. I don’t believe that birth or upbringing or whatever should play any part, they must have led that countries armies. For nations that did not exist in the historical period in question judgment needs to be exercised, but in general I prefer to be conservative.
    [4]There should be no duplication, a leader can only serve one country at a time, otherwise we’ll have a general fighting himself!
    [5]Leaders should only appear for multiple countries if there are really good reasons for it. For instance, a general who was very important leader for two countries might be acceptable. This is obviously a problem for Italy when there are so many mercenaries who switched sides so frequently.
In addition I’d like to see the leader set as a whole meet these criteria

  • [A]All countries should have some leaders available
    The leader set is one way to encourage historical outcomes, so the availability of leaders should follow the power of the countries at the historical times in question. As such second and third rate powers (like Siena, Modena, Mantua or Parma) should get very few leaders, while Florence or Milan should have many more, but fewer than France
    [C]No country should have more leaders at any time that it was able to field independent armies or fleets. If the country had three armies fighting on different fronts it should have no more than three leaders at a time.

The EEP leader set has a few problems with my rules 2, 3, 4, A and B. The Italia Universalis set makes no attempt to change the default leaders, and suffers from problems with 1,5, and C.
In general I think there are the following issues with Italian leaders
  • The Lepanto effect. Because there was has been so much ink spilt over the battle of Lepanto it is very easy to find information about leaders who fought there. As such there are no less than 7 EEP leaders who fought on the Christian side. Which is a ridiculously large proportion of the total leaders. There are other famous historical moments that are so well known that they are over-represented. It’s impossible to avoid this bias, but we can try.
    (by the way, the Ottoman leaders at Lepanto were Mehmed, Siroco (Suluk) Ali Pasha, Uluj Ali, Pertau Pasha and Hasan Ali. How many of them make it? At Preveza the Ottoman leaders were Barbaros Hayreddin Pasa, Salih Reis, and Seydi Ali Reis. How many of them are in?)
    Similarly Norwich has a good book on the history of Venice that is a very good read, and lots of people have clearly read it. As such Venice has many more leaders in the EEP than anyone else.
  • Legacy effects. Thibault did a great job with the leaders, but there are a few that are pretty dubious, and no-one has ever done anything about them. Also considerations of the board game requirements (In the board game, Venice was a major power until the Dutch arrived) drove his decisions (as they should have). Additionally when the computer game came out there was a push on the board to add leaders and several were added of extremely dubious provenance. (Borgia for Venice anyone?)

Finally I want to get all the names to be displayed the same way. My convention (dispute it if you like) is last name only, unless there are two leaders with the same last name in which case last name plus initial(s). Monarchs go by first name. All monarch names should be in the local language, at least inasmuch as it's consistent with the latin alphabet. I'd love to argue that they should all but I know I'll lose that argument. :)


I want to start by going over who should be included from the Italia Universalis and EEP. I’ll deal with stats for the appropriate leaders later. I’ve added in a few guys I came across as possible additions too. For each I’ve listed their inclusion in various versions (BG for the board game, EU for the first computer game, EU2 for EU2, EEP for the EEP and IU for the Italia Universalis mod), and what I know about their career. My opinion on the inclusion of each is in red. I’d like comments on all of this, if anyone has more info, or if I’ve made mistakes (I’m sure there are a few) I’d like to hear about it. I’d hope this is enough information for those who don’t know to form some sort of an opinion on these guys.

edit: added info about Venice being a major in the board game.

edit2: added info on names
 
Last edited:

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Early 15th century (pre-Ambrosian republic)

Assereto
Biagio Assereto
Present in: EEP(GEN)
He led the Genoese fleet that destroyed Alfonso of Aragon’s fleet at Ponza on 4 August 1435, capturing the king. In this battle he was outnumber 25 galleys to 16.
In May 1448 he led the Milanese fleet on the Po. At Cassalmaggiore he defeated the Venetian fleet under Andrea Quirini.
Two big wins, one in one of the most important battles of the period and other activities. He’s a keeper. Which was bound to be my opinion since I suggested him in the first place :)

B Baglioni
Present in IU (MLO, PAP)
I have nothing on him
He goes unless someone has more information

J. Caldora
Giacomo Caldora
Present in EEP(NAP), IU(PAP,NAP)
I’m pretty sure he’s Giacomo Caldora, so I’m not sure why he’s listed as “J. Caldora” (Jacopo?).
In July 1421 he switched his allegiance from MA Sforza to Braccio da Montone, as the latter with Alfonso V makes progress against MA Sforza. Not sure where he is for the next few years of civil war, but when F Sforza came to Naples in 1424 to attempt to take it from the Angevin party of Louis III. Guido Torello was in command in Naples, but Caldora opened the gates of the city to Sforza, and joined the Queen’s party.
Shortly thereafter, Joanna sends G Caldora, with F Sforza under command, to relieve Aquila, which is besieged by Montone. On 2 June 1424 battle between G Caldora and da Montone. N Piccinino held Montone’s reserve, and joined the battle at critical moment, allowing Aquilians to sortie from city. Major victory for Caldora, and Montone is killed.
This basically brings this round of civil war to an end, and Caldora becomes head of the Neapolitan military.
In November 1434 he was besieging Antonio Orsini in Taranto when Louis III died in Calabria, and in February 1435 Giovanna II died leaving Rene as her heir. He supported the Angevin cause. From September 1438 to August 1439 he helped Rene to take Sulmona which could have been used as a base to attack Naples. On 18 November 1439 he died.
I’m pretty sure he stays and for NAP. He was with the winning side most of the time so I think he makes sense. I don’t think he ought to be a Papal leader though.


Carmagnola
Francesco Bussone
Present in EU2(MLO,VEN), EEP(MLO, VEN), IU(MLO, VEN)
In 1420, as the commander of the Milanese army he conquered Cremona and environs, and then drove Pandolfo Malatesta from Bergamo and Brescia, taking both cities. Carlo Malatesta sent aid under Luigi da Fermo. Carmagnola beat this army at Montichiari in 8 October 1420. As a result Niccolo d’Este hands over Parma, and paid an annual tribute to Visconti for Modena, while Palavicino yielded San Maria Donnino (a castle I think).
In June 1421 he marched on Genoa. As he crossed the Apennines Genoa submits to Milan.
In April 1422 Carmagnola with Agnolo della Pergola under command moved to Val d’Ossola in order to fight Swiss of Uri and Obwalden who had taken Domodossoia and Bellinzona from Milan. At the battle of Arbedo, 30 June 1422 Carmagnola crushes Swiss. Carmagnola follows this up by forcing the Duke of Orleans out of Asti, and taking Crema.
I don’t think he played much of a role in the war with Florence after 1423, and was passed over for the command of the Milanese army that was sent to Naples. By 1425, Visconti was very suspicious of him, and so he convinced Venice to oppose Visconti and was hired by Venice as the supreme commander of the anti-Milanese alliance. In 1426 he began a siege of Brescia. The Milanese army sent to relive the siege included many famous generals – including Agnolo della Pergola, Guido Torello, Francesco Sforza, and Niccolo Piccinino. Despite, or because of all this talent they are repulsed in their attempt to relieve the siege and by November 1426 Brescia falls.
After Venice refused to sign the peace treaty the next campaign didn’t go as well for Carmagnola - he was beaten by N Piccinino at Gottolengo on 29 May 1427, after having failed to prevent the Milanese fleet from taking Caslamaggiore. Visconti put C Malatesta at the head of his army (with the same four generals under him) and at Maclodio, on 10 October 1427 Carmagnola, with GF Gonzaga and N Tolentino under command) destroyed his army and captured him. He followed up by taking more places in Lombardy, and by beating Piccinino at Ponte d’Oglio. Venice had hoped for more. Peace was made in early 1428.
War resumed in 1431, and Carmagnola was again commander in chief for the alliance (Este, Mantua, Montferrat, Florence, Venice). He was beaten at Soncino in 17 May of 1431, and then accused of negligence when he failed to support the Venetian fleet in the Po. With Milan distracted he was urged to take Cremona, but despite an opportunity to make the attempt went into winter quarters instead. In April 1432 he was arrested. He confessed to treason under torture and was executed 5 May 1432.
Clearly one of the best generals of the era. He was the critical leaders in the consolidation of Milanese control of Lombardy, and then the key figure in stopping Visconti. I’d keep him for both Milan and Venice. He played a big role in convincing Venice to ally with Florence against Milan. Whether Venice should get the choice not to execute him is another question (increasingly I think no).

L Colonna
Present in IU(PAP,MLO,PAP)
I don’t know.
He goes unless someone has more information

Ber d’Este
Present in IU(VEN)
He’s not the marquis of Ferrara who would be Lionello d’Este at this time, so I’m afraid I don’t know who he is. Lionello was one of the generals of the alliance that formed under Venice in 1426 and failed to keep Agnolo della Pergola out of Lombardy in 1426.
He goes unless someone has more information

Bor d’Este
Borso d’Este, Duke of Ferrara, Duke of Modena
Present in IU(VEN,MLO)
Again I don’t have much on his military career, although he was a prominent Renaissance prince. First Duke of Modena. Reggio and Ferrara.
Again it seems he didn’t do anything that memorable

O Fortebracci
Oddo Fortebracci, Oddo da Montone
Present in IU(TOS)
Son of the great da Montone. After his father’s death on 5 June1424 he took over his father’s troops, but overall command of the army went to N Piccinino instead. Both were quickly hired by Florence. They were ambushed in Romagna by a Milanese army on 1 February 1425, Fortebracci was killed and Piccinino captured.
Only one year in independent command, and not too distinguished.

Gattamaleta
Erasmo da Narni
Present in IU(PAP,NAP,TOS,PAP,VEN), EU2(VEN,PAP), EEP(VEN)
He started his career under Montone, and rose through the ranks. After Montone’s army was destroyed at Aquila in 1424 he served under Piccinino and O Fortebracci working for Florence. In 1427 he served the Pope, and fought banditry in Umbria, Emilia, and Romagna.
In 1434, with GF Gonzaga leaving Venetian service he is hired as Venetian commander in chief, although he is 64 years old. With Niccolo Tolentino, who is serving Florence he is beaten at CastelBolognese by N Piccinino in 1434. I’m pretty sure that he was in Venetian service at this point. In 1437 he led the Venetian armies against Milan. He was defeated on the Adda by Piccinino. In 1438 Piccinino manages to link up with GF Gonzaga, cutting Gattamaleta (in Brescia) off from Venice. In an epic march through the mountains he gets his army back to defend the Veneto, but in the process abandons all of Lombardy.
In order to lift the siege of Brescia he has Colleoni, his lieutenant take a fleet of galleys overland to Lake Garda. In the spring of 1439, with F Sforza as his colleague, he forced his way back around the north end of Lake Garda, beating N Piccinino at Riva. Piccinino escaped the loss, and launched a surprise attack on Verona. Gattamaleta and Sforza followed and drove him out of the city. Much of the credit for the 1439 campaign probably belongs to Sforza however. Gattamaleta fell victim to a stroke in the winter of 1439, and although he didn’t die until 1443, from that point his military career was over.
I would definitely get rid of the first three versions of his leader (Papacy, Naples, Tuscany). The Venetian version should definitely stay. I’m unsure of the papal version, but unless I hear more I’d suggest that he didn’t accomplish enough to warrant inclusion.


GF Gonzaga
Gian Francesco Gonzaga, Captain and then Marquis of Mantua
Present in IU(MAN,VEN,MAN)
I don’t have much information on him. He served Venice for much of his career. In 1426 he took Brescia from Milan for Venice. In 1432 he served under Carmagnola, and in May 1432 succeeded him as commander in chief of Venetian armies. In February 1437 after Sforza (Florence) beat Piccinino (Milan) at Barga, Venice sent him to attack across the Adda and Piccinino returned to Lombardy. In 1438 after Piccinino drove Gattamaleta back from Lombardy he joined the army of Gonzaga. Gattamaleta, however, was in overall command. At some point after this (not sure when) he threw his lot in with Milan, and was defeated. He died in 1444.
I don’t think the Mantuan version is warranted (he didn’t serve for Mantua even though he was the monarch). For now I’d get rid of the Venetian version, but this is mostly because I think they have enough leaders. His is a borderline case.

P Loredan
Pietro Loredan
Present in EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
In 1416 an Ottoman fleet harassed some Venetian merchantmen, so Loredan chased them to Gallipoli and beat them badly, taking 16 ships at no loss to his own. In May 1420 he led a fleet to Dalmatia and took most of the (largely undefended) cities from Hungary. There was a garrison at Trau, which he took in two weeks. He won further credit in his ultimately unsuccessful defense of Salonica in 1424. On 27 August 1431 with the assistance of Florence and of some Genoa exiles he totally defeated the Genoese fleet under Francesco Spinola at San Fruttuoso near Portofino. In October of that year his fleet supported the papal capture of Citavecchia from the Colonna.
One of the great Venetain admirals of the era. Definitely stays.

C Malatesta
Carlo Malatesta, Captain of Rimini
Present in IU(TOS)
In 1411 he served Venice in her war against the Emperor, and helped to stop the Venetian losses.
In 1420, Carlo sent troops to aid his cousin Pandolfo in the aftermath of his loss of Brescia and Bergamo. They were beaten by Carmagnola.
In 1424 he was hired by Florence and sent to help Alberico da Barbiano who was besieged in Zagonara. He was defeated by Milanese on 28 July 1424 and captured. (I don’t know who led the Milanese troops.) Fillippo Maria Visconti made a serious effort to be generous with his prisoner, and Malatesta was won over and joined Milan.
I believe he was in command of the Milanese armies in the unsuccessful campaigns of 1425-26 against Carmagnola. He certainly led many of the best generals of the time for Milan in 1427. He was defeated by Carmagnola at Maclodio on October 10th.
Tuscany is short of generals so I think he should stay. I’d (somewhat spuriously) let others stand in for his Milanese stint, which was quite short after all. I’d rather not have multiple versions of him, although this is not clear cut.

C II Malatesta
Carlo Malatesta, Captain of Rimini
Present in IU(MLO)
I am convinced he’s the same guy as the Carlo Malatesta in the Tuscan leader file.
See above.

GA da Montefeltro
Guidantonio Montefeltro, Lord of Urbino
Present in IU(PAP)
In 1419 he led the papal army against Montone, and in April 1419 was beaten by him at Spoleto.
I’m not sure this is enough to justify inclusion. Borderline, but I think he should go.


da Montone
A Fortebracci, Braccio da Montone, Lord of Perugia
Present in EEP(ARG)IU(PAP,NAP)
Without a doubt one of the greatest condotierri. Founder of the Bracci school, which was known for using maneuver and quick marches to beat enemies, and which persisted through the Italian Wars.
He first made a reputation for himself in establishing his rule over much of Umbria and Romagna up to 1408. He was hired by Ladislao King of Naples for his campaign against Florence. Betrayed by Ladislao he escaped and fought for Florence. He was an important player in the wars between the three contending popes and two contending Kings of Naples in the early part of the fifteenth century.
In 1416 with the death of Ladislaw, he seized his opportunity to regain the lordship of Perugia, from which he had been expelled some thirty years earlier. In a quick campaign, he crushed Carlo Malatesta at San Egidio on 12 July 1416, taking him captive, and regaining Perugia. This made him de facto ruler of almost the entire Papal States.
In 1419 the new Pope, Martin V, tried to expel Montone, sending Guidantonio Montefeltro and Muzio Attendolo Sforza against him. In April 1419 he beat Montefeltro at Spoleto, and then prevented Sforza from advancing from Naples.
In 1420 he co-operated with MA Sforza in bringing Louis III of Anjou to Naples (who Pope Martin V had declared heir to the queen Giovanna). However in 1421, the queen hired him to work with Alphonso of Aragon against Louis and Sforza (Louis’ commander), and helped to drive Sforza to Aversa where he besieged him. This siege was unsuccessful. However, in 1422 the pope reconciled Louis and Giovanna, making Louis the heir to the throne and Sforza the captain general of Naples. At this point Montone allied himself to Alphonso of Aragon. After Alphonso returned to Aragon to face a civil war, he was unable to make much progress against the opposition, he was successful in controlling Abruzzi.
He was besieging Aquila when Sforza came to relive it in 1424. Sforza drowned en route while crossing a river. After his army had returned to Naples it was sent (under F Sforza) along with the royal army under G. Caldora to lift the siege of Aquila. On 2 June 1424 battle was joined between Caldora and Montone. N Piccinino held Montone’s reserve, but joined the battle at a critical moment, allowing the Aquilians to sortie from city and rout Montone’s army. Montone was fatally wounded and died 5 June 1424.
Obviously has to stay. The question is how to represent the civil war in Naples, and his role in the Papal States. I’m thinking that it might depend on event choices – in 1420 if Naples picks Anjou as heir they get Sforza and Aragon gets a CB and Montone in Sicily (not exactly historical, but means that he will most likely be used against Naples. If Naples picks Aragon as heir it gets Montone, and the Papacy get Sforza (Martin V generally supported the Angevin side), and a CB of some sort. Otherwise it’s hard to figure out what to do with Montone and MA Sforza. I don’t think Montone should be a papal general, Martin V was consistently trying to break his power.


A Ordelaffi
Present in IU (MLO)
I have nothing on him.
He goes unless someone has more information

N Piccinino
Nicolo Piccinino,
Present in IU (PAP,NAP,TOS,MLO), EEP(MLO)
Served under Montone. Led his reserve in the battle of Aquila on 5 June 1424 against J Caldora. Probably lost the battle by committing the reserve and allowing the besieged Aquilans to sortie and roll up Montone’s army.
He succeeded to the command of Montone’s army, over Montone’s son Oddo Fortebracci. With the remnant of this army he joined Florentine service. He was ambushed at Faenza in February 1425 by a Milanese army and captured. Fortebracci was killed.
Fillipo Maria Visconti convinced him to join Milan’s service. He was in the army that failed to lift Carmagnola’s siege of Brescia in 1426. In 1427 he besieged Brescello, and in 29 May 1427 he defeated Carmagnola at Gottolengo. However, because of the rivalries between the various condotierri serving Visconti, Carlo Malatesta was made commander in chief, and was badly defeated by Carmagnola at 10 October 1427, where Piccinino was present. In December Piccinino led an army that was repulsed by Carmagnola at Ponte d’Oglio.
In 1430 he was sent by the Genoese (then under Milanese rule) to invade Tuscany. In 1430 he totally defeated the Florentine army under A Montefeltro at the Serchio River. In 1431 as general war resumed he returned to Lombardy, and was with the army that beat Carmagnola on 17 May 1431 at Soncino, although I think Sforza was in command. In 1432 he defeated G Cornaro (not sure who he was serving, but probably Venice) in the Val Telline. In 1434, in general command he defeated N Tolentino (TOS) and Gattamaleta (VEN) at CastelBolognese.
In 1435 after Milan aligned itself with Alphonso V of Aragon, Genoa overthrew Milanese rule, and Piccinino led the Milanese army against Genoa. For once no-one in Genoa overthrew the government and he was unsuccessful.
In 1437 he led the Milanese army that opposed the Florentines under Sforza. On 8 February he was defeated at Barga. In 1438 Venice and Florence made peace with Milan, and Sforza headed to Naples to support Rene of Anjou. To help Alphonso, his ally, Visconti released Piccinino from his service, and Piccinino led his army to the Romagna in order to seize Sforza’s territory there, nominally to restore them to the Pope.
He conquered much of the Romagna, which led to Sforza to return from Naples, and GF Gonzaga of Venice to invade Lombardy.
This led to another general war, with Piccinino now clearly the most important Milanese general. He returned to Lombardy, and divided Gattamaleta around Brescia from Gonzaga, who was East of the Adige(?), which meant that Gattamaleta was isolated on the West side of Lake Garda. Gattamaleta managed to escape by marching around the north (and very mountainous) end of lake Garda, allowing Piccinino to besiege Brescia. Venice tried to supply the city by dragging fleet overland to the lake, and the siege lasted all winter. In the next year Sforza, now sharing the command with Gattamaleta pushed the Milanese past the Adige, and then marched back around the northern end of Lake Garda, beating Piccinino quite readily at Sarca on 9 November 1439 to reach Brescia. However, Piccinino managed to rally his army and enter Verona. With this threat to his communications Sforza had to follow, and on 19 November, from the part of Verona still controlled by Venice drove Piccinino from the city.
In 1440 Visconti sent Piccinino south into Umbria. However, on June 29 1440 he was beaten by Sforza, along with Capponi Nera of Florence and Gian Paolo Orsini serving the Pope at Anghiari. In February 1441 he beat the Venetians under Sforza at Martinego and surrounded him. He demanded that Visconti give him Piacenza as a reward, which led Visconti to make a truce with Sforza by marrying his daughter to him, and this ultimately led to peace with his employers, Florence and Venice.
With the peace, Sforza went to Naples again to support Rene of Anjou (he had already sent his brother to Naples). Visconti offered Piccinino’s service to the Pope to attack Sforza’s lands in the Romagna (again). By the end of the year he was in a three way alliance with Visconti and Alfonso V to oppose Sforza. By 1443 Rene’s cause was finally lost, and Sforza was forced to stand on the defensive and hope for help from Venice and Florence who remained neutral. However, Bologna rebelled against Piccinino and Sforza was able to hold his own throughout 1443. Visconti then became worried that Sforza was the only man who could restrain Piccinino, and so he formed a new alliance with Venice, Florence and Sforza against Piccinino and sent an army under Taddeo d’Este and Simonetta Camposampiero against him. On November 8 they defeated him near Fano in the Romagna.
In the summer of 1444 Piccinino went to Milan to negotiate with Sforza leaving his son, Francesco in command. His son was badly beaten and captured by Sforza in August, and with his fortunes failing he died in Milan in October 1444.
I think the EEP has him about right. He did not hold independent command until he had been hired by Milan. The rest of the time he was at least aligned with Milan, until 1443, which could be his deathdate. Anyway, just a leader for Milan in my opinion.

Savoragnon
Tristano Savoragnon
Present in EEP(VEN)
Led the army that opposed the Hungarian invasion of Veneto under the patriarch of Aquilea in 1418. Held off the Hungarians in 1418, and in 1419 took Sacile, Feltre, and Belluno. Took Udine in 1420, which induced the rest of the Friuli to submit to Venice.
I think he’s a ‘Norwich’ inclusion. Could be kept, but I don’t think he’s that critical. But then he’s the only leader this early on so maybe he can stay.

MA Sforza
Muzio Attendolo Sforza
Present in EEP(PAP), IU(PAP)
One of the great generals of the early part of the game. In 1419 as a general for Naples (I think, at the very least as a Neapolitan magnate) he worked to bring Louis III to Naples to oppose the influence of the Queen’s lover. With Louis’ help he secured most of the country and was besieging the Queen’s troops in Naples in 1421 when she called for help from Alfonso V of Aragon. Sforza was unable to prevent Alfonso from landing, and had to withdraw to Aversa. By now Montone had intervened to help Alfonso, but the Sforza defended Aversa against them both. G Caldora now defected from Sforza’s cause to that of Alfonso, and Sforza had several of his lieutenants executed on suspicion of their planning to do the same. However, ultimately he had to accept his losses and was reconciled with the Queen and da Montone.
In 1422, Alfonso seized the Queen’s lover, whose influence he distrusted and who he suspected of plotting with Louis against himself. Giovanna then fled to Sforza in Aversa, who, in May 1422 defeated Alfonso in battle, forcing the latter to retreat to the walls of Naples. However, on June 11 1422 Alfonso received reinforcements from Sicily, and Sforza retreated back to Aversa. The Queen then reconciled with Alfonso who released her lover. However, concerned about Alfonso’s control in the Kingdom she formed a new alliance with Louis III who became the heir to the throne, and made Sforza captain general of Naples. Alfonso was (obviously) very much opposed to this, but had to return to Aragon to face a civil war. Montone then abandoned Campania, and march to control most of Abruzzi. It was to oppose Montone’s siege of Aquila in 1424, that he drowned crossing the river Pesara.
Obviously has to stay. As I said under Montone, I’m thinking of him going to either NAP or PAP depending on who is chosen as heir in 1420. He makes more sense as a Neapolitan general really, but having him at the same time as Montone is wrong, and would make Naples very strong when it was really crippled by the civil wars.

della Stella
Niccolo Fortebracci, della Stella
Present in IU(TOS,PAP,TOS,MLO)
Nephew of Braccio da Montone. From 1426 to 1428 he served under Gattamaleta serving Florence. In 1429, on behalf of Florence he invaded Lucca. In 1431, serving the pope he took Citavecchia from the Colonna. In 1433 he was sent by Visconti with F Sforza to harass the Pope. While Sforza attacked the Romagna he took Tivoli and marched on to Rome. With the city besieged Eugenius IV fled the city and a republic was briefly set up under the influence of the Colonna. Della Stella took advantage of the situation to install himself as Duke of Assisi. He defeated Giovanni Vitelleschi’s papal army at Genazzano in 1434. By 1435 the Pope decided to get rid of him, and sent an army under (I think) Leo Sforza. Della Stella defeated this army at Foligno. However, on 23 August 1435, at Fiordimonte he was badly beaten by Francesco Sforza, and was killed while trying to escape from the battle.
Not so great that he absolutely has to stay, but still a pretty major figure. With this many employers it’s tough to see how he should be represented which makes me think we should just drop him.

da Tolentino
Niccolo da Tolentino
Present in IU(MLO,TOS)
In 1434 at CastelBolgnese he led the Florentine contingent of the Venetian-Florentine army that was beaten by N Piccinino. Gattamaleta led the Venetian part contingent. I don’t have anything else on him.
I’d get rid of him except that Florence is short of generals throughout this period, so I’d be inclined to keep him for Florence.


Torello
Guido Torello
Not presently in game
Got most of the plum assignments Carmagnola was looking for after Carmagnola had been made governor of Genoa. This causing Carmagnola to approach Venice.
He led the Milanese army to Naples in 1423 to support the Angevin party. After landing he took Gaeta, Procida, Castellammare and Sorrento from Aragonese and besieged Don Pedro (brother of Alfonso V of Aragon) in Naples. This changed the entire course of the war, and led to the final collapse of the Aragonese cause in Naples.
In 1425 he led the Milanese invasion of Tuscany, and on 17 October 1425 he defeated Bernandino Ubaldini the Florentine general.
In 1426, along with F Sforza, N Piccinino, and della Pergola he was part of the Milanese army that failed to relieve Carmagnola’s siege of Brescia. In 1427 he served under C Malatesta, and was present at the Milanese defeat to Carmagnola at Maclodio.
In 1447 he joined the forces of the Ambrosian Republic when it was proclaimed.
Two major decisive campaigns. I think he should be added to beef up Milan in the period between Carmagnola era and Piccinino era. Not a clear cut case though.


L Dal Verme
Ludovico dal Verme
Present in IU(VEN,MLO)
In 1420 he seems to have been in Bolognese service, and was defeated by Montone, after which he joined Venice. He married Carmagnola’s daughter, but I don’t have him doing much else.
He switched to Milanese service and beat the Florentines at Pietrasanta (1440 I think). However he was beaten by Simonetta Camposampiero and Tiberio Brandolin in 1442 and driven out of Tuscany.
He joined Sforza when the Ambrosian Republic was created and stayed with him until Sforza broke with the republic. He served in most of Sforza victories during this period, and was fatally wounded at Monza in 1449. He died 4 September 1449.
I’m inclined to drop him. Certainly the Venetian version can go, and I think there are better choices for Milan. Again not too clear cut.

Vitteleschi
Giovanni Vitteleschi
Not currently present in the game
Upon the election of Eugenius IV he was made Papal general. In October of that year he served under della Stella in the (successful) siege of Citavecchia under the Colonna.
In 1433 he tried to displace della Stella, but was defeated at Genazzano.
In 1434 he restored papal authority in Rome, forcing the Orsini and Colonna into line. He entered the city on 26 October 1434. He then reduced the towns of Sabine, Lazio, and Tuscia to obedience to Pope bringing his control to all of Lazio.
In 1435 Eugenius IV (the pope) sent him to help the Angevins in Naples . At Montefuscolo he defeated and captured Giovanni Orsini. He then proceeded to capture Aquila for the Aragonese.
He was made a cardinal in 1437.
In 1439 he returned to the Papal states due to another revolt, and restored Folignano and Soriano to papal authority, suppressing (again) the Colonna and Orsini.
In 19 March 1440 Vitelleschi lost the confidence of the pope, and, as his army left Rome to face N Piccinino was arrested and then executed.
I suggest him because there are few Papal leaders in this era, and he was at least consistently with the papacy, and did manage to restore the Pope to Rome. Again not clear cut.

more later
 

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For what regards Condottieri leaders, I recommend this italian site where you can find some info on hundreds of leaders.

In any case I do appreciate your attempt, and I agree in general whith the "rules" you pose, with some exeption for when you require a given leader to have historically served with that nation in actual campaign.

Well, this non only of course gives a huge impact - as you said - on countries which did not exist in a given time (I think of Milan after 1525), but also to countries wich did not fight a given war (I think of Venice in the main Euro wars of 1600 and 1700).

The solution is not easy, in any case.
 

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Beautiful work Isaac Brock.
I like your sets of criteria, something like that ought to be put together for the AGCEEP as a whole. It's much better to have guidelines (and make a precious few exceptions when needed or fantasy inclusions for fantasy options) than having no rules at all.
(Not that EU2 in general have any rules, or it might have two sets actually, for Swedish leaders and for non-Swedish leaders. That one being executed for treason is really annoying. I could take a look at it, and also the Danish ones, I have found a good page on Danish military history.)
 

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Originally posted by berhaven
For what regards Condottieri leaders, I recommend this italian site where you can find some info on hundreds of leaders.
I've looked there, but I've found it not to be as useful as the chronologia site. It's much harder to work out the importance of some of these battles, and of course, it's of little use after 1550 or so. It's great if you want to find out about a given individual, but not so useful for working out who is the most important. Plus I don't speak IItalian, which makes it much harder for me. So I'd like to hear if I'm getting things wrong! And of course to hear other opinions. There are too many leaders in the game because someone, somewhere, at some time, posted "he was great" and some stats. (Borgia for Venice is a great example!)

Well, this non only of course gives a huge impact - as you said - on countries which did not exist in a given time (I think of Milan after 1525), but also to countries wich did not fight a given war (I think of Venice in the main Euro wars of 1600 and 1700).

The solution is not easy, in any case.
Not to tip my hand, but you ought to keep in mind that Venice was a belligerent in 1617, and in 1629. Not to mention that she fought major wars throughout the 17th century. Many of the states that actually existed in the 17th century sent national contingents to these wars, and Italy was a key area in the 30 years war in particular. I think (hope?) these problems can be resolved.

edit: and I agree that I'm applying a little more rigour than has been applied to any other country. But Italy and Germany are, to me, the areas that need the most work.
 

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Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I've looked there, but I've found it not to be as useful as the chronologia site. It's much harder to work out the importance of some of these battles, and of course, it's of little use after 1550 or so. It's great if you want to find out about a given individual, but not so useful for working out who is the most important. Plus I don't speak IItalian, which makes it much harder for me. So I'd like to hear if I'm getting things wrong! And of course to hear other opinions. There are too many leaders in the game because someone, somewhere, at some time, posted "he was great" and some stats. (Borgia for Venice is a great example!)

In effect my impulse to give you the site was mostly for giving answers to some "I don't know who he was" notes you posted. For the rest I definitely agree with you. BTW if you have questions and need prompt translations I'm here!.

Originally posted by Isaac Brock

Not to tip my hand, but you ought to keep in mind that Venice was a belligerent in 1617, and in 1629. Not to mention that she fought major wars throughout the 17th century. Many of the states that actually existed in the 17th century sent national contingents to these wars, and Italy was a key area in the 30 years war in particular. I think (hope?) these problems can be resolved.

edit: and I agree that I'm applying a little more rigour than has been applied to any other country. But Italy and Germany are, to me, the areas that need the most work. [/B]

Agree about Venice, the question being, but it wasn't involved in major battles, so its leaders did not get any historical recognition.

In any case, as I posted somewhere else (a thread about Emanuele Filiberto fighting against himself, and with different stats!) some cleaning has to be done.

The Italian leader question after say 1550 is hard to define because historically the best generals and admirals did not fight mainly for their home country but for some foreign army or fleet.
Examples can be:

Bayard, who has to be considered much more as a French leader then a Savoy one,

Trivulzio, a good milanese leader employed by France,

Giovanni dalle Bande Nere, Austrian and later French leader more than Florentine or Papal,

Andrea Doria (employed formerly by France and then for Spain, with Genuan fleet acting as a Compagnia di Ventura, or - better - as assentista,

Emanuel Philibert of Savoy, who never fought for Savoy itself but was a Spanish/Empire great general,

Alessandro Farnese, governor of Low Lands and Duke of Modena,

Montecuccoli, Austrian general,

Eugene of Savoy, again only employed by the Empire,

For all of them an employ from their own italian states is in any case ahistorical, according to one of the rules you posted, but is to be considered likely in terms of alternate history (not fantasy) assuming their home country (or KOI should it pop up) is going to have a more significant role (in other terms if the employment for it could be considered enough prestigious).

As we told several times, it's a damned hard matter to define a rule which matches the opposing criteria.
 

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Let me add one more concept:

Historical criteria could have the lead in post-Condottieri era, even if it creates a sustancial lack of leaders for all italian stats but Venice and Savoy, where we can add some more.

For Condottieri times (basically until a foreign superpower gets the lead in Italy), the ideal method should be to have events that give the option to hire leaders with their armies for a limited span of time (one or two years) at a cost, that pop-up only in wartime.
 

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That would be nice, but I am not willing to do work to have events allowing you to hire various condottieri. :). I think it will be tough to get that to work right. I'm planning to assign them to the countries they fought for.

I'll get to the guys you posted!
 

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Some comments on leaders Isaac posted

Baglioni

Well, we have some 18 Baglioni's family condottieri: among them:
Adriano (1527-1574) who was noted and fought for Papacy, France, Austria, Ungheria, Urbino.

Astorre (1526-1571) his brother: very well considered ("war lighting"), was governor general of Cyprus during Turk invasion and was executed by them. Previously employed by papacy (until 1551), France, Empire. Was with Venice since 1558.

Gentile (1466-1527) father of them, bishop and lord of Perugia. "Honored captain of his days"; fought almost always for Papacy and Perugia.

Giampaolo (1470-1520) cousin of the latter and his enemy. Lord of Perugia; fought for Perugia, Papacy, Florence and Venice.

Malatesta (1491-1531) his son, lord of Perugia. Young leader of mounted crossbowmen. Fought mainly for Venice. Captured Cremona from the Milanese in 1526. Defended FLorence from the empire in 1530 and considered traitor.


Colonna: again family of condottieri: at least 25 of them. With a name beginning with L we have:

Lorenzo (1410-1448) not really notable: fought for and against Papacy

Ludovico (1390-1436) ferocious and audacious: fought for almost everybody and in 1432 was commander in chief (capitano generale) of Siena army. Killed by a brother-in-law, his body given as food to dogs.

Some more to come
 

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I didn't get to those Baglioni yet. Just pre-1447. :)

Any idea if the IU leader is Lorenzo or Ludovico Colonna? Neither sounds that important.
 

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Mid-15th century

M. Attendolo
Micheletto Attendolo
NOT MA Sforza but rather Micheletto Attendolo, a cousin.
Present in IU (NAP,TOS,VEN)
[added] Along with GP Orsini beat Piccinino at battle of Anghiaro on June 29 1440. Serving Florence at this time. Another reference puts Cappone Nera in charge of the Florentine army[/added]
All I have for him is:
1446 finds him leading a Venetian army with Gugliermo of Montferrat under him. At Casalmaggiore on 26 September 1446 he beats a Milanese army under F Piccinino. In 1447 he repeated this trick beating Piccinino at Brianza. With the formation of the Ambrosian Republic he remains in the field, and in 1448 successfully repulses an assault on San Colombano (which I think is a Lombard castle) by Francesco Sforza. But on 14 September of that year in trying to lift Sforza’s siege of Caravaggio he is beaten in open battle by Sforza.
I have nothing after that.
I’d call him a borderline case, could stay, but it depends on how other people are handled around 1446-1448.

A. Caldora
Present in IU(NAP)
Succeeded his father Giacomo Caldora as Rene I’s top general in Naples on 18 Nov 1439. He’s ineffective as Alfonso V takes Salerno and Aversa in 1440, preferring to take Sforza’s Neapolitan fiefs. After Alfonso has beaten off relief efforts from the Pope and Sforza the Angevins were only holding various towns in Abruzzi and the city of Naples. I’m not sure when Caldora switched sides.
In late 1459 Jean of Calabria landed in Naples to try to overthrow the Aragonese regime. Caldora is the most important noble to join him. In 7 July 1460 he was Jean’s lieutenant at the battle of Sarno where Ferdinand I is defeated – all of Naples except the city joins the Angevins. I think he was present at the battle of Troia, 18 Aug 1462 where the Angevins were defeated. The rebellion lasted until 1465, but I don’t know Caldora’s role.
I don’t think he played a big enough role to stay. Certainly not a stellar record.

Colleoni
B Colleoni
Present in EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN), IU(NAP,VEN,MLO, VEN,MLO,VEN)
Colleoni had distinguished himself as lieutenant to Carmagnola. After Carmagnola’s death he was passed over and placed under Gattamelata, but in 1439 in an epic feat he supervised the transportation of an entire Venetian fleet overland to fight the Milanese in Lake Garda (much like the Turks at Constantinople 14 years later). The fleet was defeated in November 1439, but over the winter Colleoni had it repaired and new ships built and it was successful in 1440.
In 1442, disgusted with the way that the Venetians were not meeting their obligations to F Sforza (his commander) he switched his employer to Milan. But in 1442 he falls out with Piccinino who had Visconti lock him up, where he stays until Visconti’s death in 1447, when he was released and joined Francesco Sforza in serving the Ambrosian republic. His initial task was to oppose the troops of France and Montferrat in the west. On 11 October, along with Asorre Manfredi, he fought and beat Dresnay near Marengo. He now switched to sides to Venice, and on 10 April 1449 he defeated a Savoyard army.
After Sforza became Duke of Milan he switched back to join Sforza, and served him until the peace of Lodi.
However, on April 12 1454 he became Captain General of the Venetian armies and would remain such for 22 years.
By 1465 he was serving Venice, who offered his services to some Florentine exiles. In 1467, with the death of Sforza, the conspiracy actually came off, and he nominally passed to the pay of the exiles with various condotierri under command. Florence called on it’s allies of Milan and Naples and put it’s army under F Montefeltro. On 25 July 1467 the two met in battle at Forli (where Montefeltro was victorious) (to no great effect). Upon peace being made in 1468 Colleoni was chosen commander in chief of the Christian army that would fight the Turks. Nothing much came of this.
He dies 2 November 1475.
Obviously good for Venice after 1454. The question I’m grappling with is about the earlier period. Potentially he could be a Milanese leader from 1442-1454 .

T d’Este
Taddeo d’Este
Present in IU(VEN)
Not much on him. In November 1443 he led the Venetian contingent that served under the overall command of Sforza when he decisively beat N. Piccinino. This prevented Piccinino from establishing himself in a state in the Romagna.
On 20 August 1447, after the death Fillipo Maria Visconti, in the anarchy that surrounded the creation of the Ambrosian Republic he seized Piacenza for Venice.
However, in November 1447 Piacenza was attacked by Sforza, and after a bloody assault Este lost the city fell to him.
I’m inclined to drop him. Was somewhat important, but as long as Venice has leaders around then he’s not the most important

GF Farnese
Present in IU(PIS)
Given his dates, there was a war between Siena and Florence at this time (1453-1454) but I don’t know anything about him.
he goes unless someone has something on him

C Fortebracci
Carlo Fortebracci, Carlo da Montone
Present in IU(MLO,PAP,VEN)
Heir to da Montone, but he was never as successful. In late summer 1451 serving Venice against Milan he managed to penetrate as close to Milan as Lodi, but was driven off. On 10 June 1452 he was defeated at Goito by Brandolin in the service of Milan.
In 1477 Lorenzo de’ Medici convinced him to invade Siena on his own behalf, and as a result Papal troops took Montone from him. In October 1477 the Ottomans invaded Friuli, and defeated and killed Giroloma Novello, after this the Venetian command in the Terra Firma went to Carlo da Montone. In 1479 after the Pazzi War Florence hired him away from Venice, and he served under Ercole d’Este in that war.
Few independent commands. I say he goes.

L Gonzaga
Ludovico Gonzaga, Marquis of Mantua
Present in IU(MLO,VEN,NAP,MLO,MAN)
I don’t have that much on him. His early service was for Milan against Sforza, but with the formation of the Ambrosian republic he turned to Venice instead. He ultimately led the army of Alfonso V (I of Naples) in Lombardy, but in late 1450 joined Sforza who promised better pay. He served Milan until 1460. On 15 June 1452 with Brandolin (MLO) he beat Carlo Fortebracci at Goito, in the Mantova. He was offered the papal command in 1459, to oppose the Angevins in Naples, but declined due to health. In 1472 he served under Galleazzo Maria Sforza, Duke of Milan, in his campaign opposing Charles the Bold’s attempt to take Savoy. He died in 1478 in the plague.
A borderline case, but I think he goes.

DN Malatesta
Present in IU(PAP,MLO,TOS)
I don’t know who he is.
he goes unless someone has something on him

S P Malatesta
Sigismund Pandolfo Malatesta, Captain of Rimini
Present in IU(PAP,NAP,PAP,PIS,TOS,VEN,TOS,PAP,VEN,PAP )
In 1445 Fillipo Maria Visconti formed an alliance between himself, the Pope and Alfonso of Aragon/Naples to oppose Francesco Sforza. As such he convinced Malatesta to work for Pope. In 1447 when Sforza and Visconti reconciled Malatesta made his peace with Sforza.
By 1449 he was working for Venice, and commanded the army they sent against Sforza in that campaign. Sforza kept Malatesta apart from G. Piccinino (the Milanese commander), and on 28 December Sforza defeated Piccinino and forced him back to the city. Sforza then attacked Malatesta, and forced him across the Adda.
Throughout 1450 Sforza was able to keep Malatesta’s Venetian army from relieving Milan.
By 1452 he was working for Florence, and with Alessandro Sforza (leading Milanese forces) he drove the all Neapolitan troops (under Ferrante I and F Montefeltro) from Tuscany.
In 1460 he took up arms against the pope. (I’m not sure why.) In that capacity, he defeated a Papal army on 2 July 1461. However, he was defeated by F Montefeltro’s Papal army on 12 August 1462 at Sinigaglia. Malatesta sued for peace and his rule was limited to within 5 miles of the city of Rimini.
In 1465, in Venetian service, he put up a reasonably effective defense of Morea but left when he learned that Rimini was threatened by Pope. I’m not sure exactly how long he served in Greece.
He died on 13 October 1468.
A tough call, because he served so many countries.

C Ordelaffi
Present in IU (VEN)
I have nothing on him.
As always, he goes unless someone has something on him

F Piccinino
Francesco Piccinino
Present in IU (TOS,MLO)
Son of Niccolo, he served with his father. The first reference to him in independent command that I have is in 1443, when his father was serving the Pope against Sforza. He was left in command in Bologna. The city revolted and allied itself with Venice and Florence. He was captured.
When his father was negotiating with Visconti in Milan he led his father’s army in the Romagna. Sforza defeated and captured him on 19 August 1444 at Montolmo.
With his brother Giacomo was put in command of the Milanese army after his father’s death in October 1444. On 26 Sept 1446 he was beaten by Micheletto Attendolo (Venetian) at Casalmaggiore, and in 1447 he lost to Attendolo again at Brianza. Later that year, when Sforza took command as commander in chief for the Ambrosian republic he took a contract from the Republic. However, he was involved in a conspiracy against Sforza that led Sforza to defect from the Ambrosian republic and make peace with Venice. Piccinino stayed with Milan.
With Sforza successes in 1449 both Piccinino’s switched their allegiance to him, However later that year when Carlo Gonzaga with the Ambrosian army attacked dal Verme at Monza they switched sides back to Milan.
On independent commands he seems to be beaten at every turn. I say get rid of him.

J Piccinino
Jacopo Piccinino, also, unless I’m mistaken, Giacomo Piccinino
Present in IU (NAP,MLO,VEN,NAP)
In October 1444, along with Francesco, his brother, he took his father Niccolo Piccinino’s place in the service of Milan. He served alongside his brother for Milan until 1447 and the creation of the Ambrosian Republic in Milan. Sforza managed to bring him into the service of the republic. Along with his brother Francesco he conspired against Sforza in 1448, leading Sforza to make peace with Venice and turn on Milan. He stayed on the service of the Ambrosian republic. He was defending Parma from Alessandro Sforza in February 1449, discouraged by the clear ambitions of Carlo Gonzaga in Milan he switched sides to join Sforza. However, later that year he (and Francesco Piccinino) switched back to serving Milan. In December he was leading the Milanese army that tried to co-operate with Sigismundo Malatesta’s Venetian army against Sforza. However, Sforza defeated Piccinino on 28 December 1449, forcing him back into Milan, and then turned on Malatesta and drove him past the Adda. He remained in command in Milan for the rest of the life of the republic, but was completely unable to resupply the city in the face of Sforza’s army.
In 1452 he became supreme commander of the Venetian army. He led raids to pillage and plunder into Lombardy, but on 15 August 1452 was defeated by Sforza near Lodi.
From 1455-56 he made an unsuccessful attempt to take over Siena.
In 1459 he was one of the first condotierri to join the Angevin forces of Jean of Calabria when they invaded Italy. On 27 July 1460 G Piccinino he defeated Frederigo da Montefeltro and Alessandro Sforza at San Fabiano in Lazio, before marching into the Abruzzi to take it for Anjou. Subsequently the Aragonese party was driven most of Naples. However, with the defection of Genoa, the loss of support from France with the death of Charles VII, and with the arrival of Skanderburg from Albania, the tide began to turn Piccinino and Jean were defeated by (I think) Ferrante I at Troia, which caused the loss of Apulia for the Angevins. In 1463 after a lengthy struggle in Abruzzi, Piccinino recognized that the cause of Anjou was lost, and passed into the pay of Ferrante I of Naples.
In 1465 he married Francesco Sforza’s daughter, and was greeted by the Milanese populace crying “The Bracceschi!" – Sforza’s rivals. From then Sforza didn’t trust him, and after a similar reception in Naples, Jacopo and Francesco Piccinino were seized by the King and executed. By the end of his life he was known as the “First general in Italy.”
He really ought to be available to Milan, as he commanded until the end of the Ambrosian Republic. Whether he is needed for Venice is an open question. I’d give him to Naples, but I’m not sure how to handle the Angevin mess. At any rate he stays, and I’d say serves Milan and then Naples.

F Sforza
Francesco Sforza, Duke of Milan
Present in EEP(MLO), IU(PAP,MLO,PAP,MLO,PAP,TOS,VEN,NAP,MLO)
One of the greatest. He served under his father (MA Sforza) until his death on 13 Jan 1424, at which point he took command of his father’s army. He took the army (which had been advancing against Montone at Aquila) back to Naples where he supported Guido Torello against the Aragonese inside the city (under Don Pedro, Alfonso V’s brother). In April G Caldora opened the doors to the besiegers and became general in chief of Naples. Sforza and his army served under Caldora when he decisively beat Montone at Aquila on June 2 1424.
In 1425 he joined the service of Milan to fight in the war against Venice and Florence. He was a part of the army that failed to relieve Brescia in that year, although he was not in command. When the war resumed in 1427 Sforza served under C Malatesta (for Milan) who was badly beaten by Carmagnola at Maclodio. I think he was then with Piccinino when he was beaten again by Carmagnola later that year. From what I can tell he was beaten by Genoese exiles in 1428.
After the peace, in 1429 della Stella serving Florence, attacked Lucca. Visconti sent Sforza to oppose him, again nominally acting independently. In July 1430 Sforza lifted the siege of Lucca. He then took a huge bribe to leave Lucca.
In 1431 he returned to Milanese service, and with Piccinino became commander of the Milanese forces. On May 17 1431 they beat Carmagnola at Soncino.
With the return of peace Visconti nominally discharged Sforza and della Stella and sent them to harass the Pope (under the nominal authority of the council of Bologna). Sforza conquered parts of Umbria. Late in 1433 the Pope reconciled with Sforza and Visconti, accepting a council and making Sforza his general in chief and vicar for Ancona.
Late in 1434 Sforza was hired by Florence to oppose della Stella, which he did successfully, beating him late in that year at Fiordimonte. Della Stella was killed in this battle.
With the resumption of war between Milan and Florence and Venice, Sforza served Florence and opposed Piccinino. He beat Piccinino at Barga on 8 February 1437, allowing him to overrun Luccan territory and besiege the city.
With Venice’s part of the war not going as well Florence let Venice hire Sforza in 1438. Peace was then signed, and Sforza headed to Naples to support Rene of Anjou. However, Visconti was not willing to allow Sforza to intervene in Naples, and sent Piccinino to attack Sforza’s holdings in Marche. Sforza returned and faced off Piccinino.
War between Milan and Venice and Florence resumed (again) in 1439 and Sforza became the co-commander (with Gattamaleta) of the Venetian armies. In June he entered the Veneto, lifted Piccinino’s siege of Vicenza and forced Piccinino and Gian Francesco Gonzaga across the Adige. He then led his and Gattamaleta’s armies around the north lake Garda to lift the siege of Brescia, in a great mountain crossings. He met Piccinino at Sarca, defeated him and captured Carlo Gonzaga. Piccinino managed to rally his troops and advance some of them into Verona. Sforza followed and drove him out.
In 1440 Piccinino then moved his army south into Romagna, and Tuscany, while Sforza beat the remaining Milanese forces at Soncina on June 14, and cleared the Milanese from all the territory around Bergamo and Brescia.
Early in 1441 Sforza fought an indecisive battle against N Piccinino at Cignano, but was then defeated and surrounded by Piccinino at Martinego. With Piccinino pressing Visconti for the rulership of Piacenza Visconti preferred to make his peace with Sforza, which he did in August, Sforza accepting on behalf of Venice. In October he married Bianca Visconti and became lord of Pontremoli and Cremona as her dowry.
In 1442 Sforza headed to Naples again to support Rene of Anjou against Alfonso of Aragon (Alfonso having seized his possessions there). Piccinino, acting nominally on his own behalf, but in reality for Milan (again) followed him and attacked his possessions in Romagna. At the same time pope Eugenius IV made his peace with Alfonso, and Sforza was opposed by an alliance of Milan, Naples and the Papacy. Sforza stayed on the defensive in the Romagna. By the end of the summer he was in extreme straits, but Visconti was concerned about the power of Alfonso, and convinced Alfonso to abandon the campaign. This allowed Sforza to gather his troops and attack Piccinino who he beat decisively on 8 November 1443.
In 1444 Visconti was wavering again, not wanting Sforza to grow too powerful. He brought Piccinino to Milan, and Sforza attacked Piccinino’s (new) army, which he had left under his son Francesco. He beat and captured F Piccinino at Montolmo on 19 August 1444, which brought even more territory under his control and forced Eugenius to seek peace with Sforza in October 1444.
However, in 1445 due to various disputes a new alliance between the Papacy, Milan and Naples had been formed against Sforza who was now indirectly supported by Venice. In the ensuing war Sforza did not do well, he stayed on the defensive while the allies defeated and captured Bologna, then, in 1446 tried to invade Lazio, but met with no success, and returned to Marche to find that he had lost the important town of Pesaro. However, in 1446 Visconti tried to seize Cremona and Pontremoli from Sforza which brought Venice and Florence into the war. Attendolo led the Venetian armies to much success, relieving the pressure on Sforza, and ultimately forcing Visconti to try to come to terms with Sforza
After extensive delays Sforza entered Milanese service in March 1447. On 15 August, as Sforza was marching north to Milan Visconti died, and shortly afterwards the Ambrosian Republic was proclaimed in Milan.
Upon his arrival in Milan Sforza was named commander in chief. He led the Milanese army against the Venetians under Attendolo, but managed only a draw in a battle at San Colombano. Upon the request of the city of Pavia he became lord of that city, telling his paymasters that otherwise it would have offered itself to Venice. In November 1447 he took Piacenza from the Venetian army of Taddeo d’Este. In May 1448 he took all of the Venetian fortified positions along the Adda. He besieged Caravaggio that summer, and met Attendolo in battle when he tried to relieve it. On 14 September 1448 he defeated Attendolo. He then discovered that the Piccinino brothers were conspiring against him with the Ambrosian Republic, and so he made peace with Venice on 18 October 1448. The peace stipulated that Sforza free all the prisoners he had taken, and turn over Brescia, Bergamo and Crema to Venice. In return Venice was to assist him in taking all of the lands held by Fillipo Maria Visconti at his death. In 1449 he made quick progress, culminating in a famous siege of Vigevano, which was ultimately successful. This meant that he could block all access to Milan, and he began to starve the city into submission. This, of course, turned Venice against Sforza and on 27 September 1449 Venice made peace with the Ambrosian Republic and the two allied against Sforza.
In the late fall of 1449 Sigismondo Malatesta in commanded the Venetian troops sent to defeat Sforza, while Jacopo Piccinino commanded the Milanese army. Sforza kept the two forces apart, and defeated Piccinino on December 28 1449, forcing his army back into Milan. He then turned against Malatesta, driving him back across the Adda.
Over the winter Sforza held off all attempts to lift the blockade of Milan, by Malatesta, Colleoni, and Piccinino. By 25 February most of the leaders of the Ambrosian Republic had defected to Sforza, and the government was overthrown. As Sforza was the only one who could feed Milan he was made Duke, and entered the city, unarmed and without his army, on the 25th of March.
War began again in 1451, this time between Florence/Milan and Venice/Naples/Savoy. In August 1452 Sforza badly defeated Jacopo Piccinino who was now commander in chief of Venetian armies. He then went on to conquer Brescia and Bergamo (again). There was no serious campaigning in 1453, and in 1454 a general peace was made.
Sforza died in 1467
Probably the best condottieri bar none. He has beaten pretty much everyone, and only really lost to N Piccinino. Very difficult to know what to do. I’d get rid of his Neapolitan service, even though he was an important player even then. On balance I think I’d give him to Milan for 1425-1434, although I hate to give them so many leaders at that time. He playued a key role in Florence from 1434-1438, and his relationship with Cosimo de Medici is an important one. So I’d include him there – they are short of generals anyway. I’m tempted to skip his service with Venice, as he was hired by them because Florence’s war was going well and Venice’s wasn’t, so Cosimo sent him there. Then he could be for TOS from 1434-1442. I’d just ignore the whole period until 1447 and leave him out. From 1447 his status should depend on how the Ambrosian Republic event plays out, but for now (two choices, republic or Sforza) they can get him either way. He could be switched out to Venice if the Republic is chosen, but I don’t care to do that level of detail right now, so I’d just leave him for Milan.

edit: Added Anghiari for Attendolo
 
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Norrefeldt

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From berhavens description it seems to me that Baglioni and Colonna should be names for standard leaders, unless we make something out of the condottieri system, perhaps like berhaven suggested? What is your opinion on that Isaac Brock, ought there to be any leaders the Italians should pay for or should they have the same system as all other states?
(This is not the current issue, so I understand if it's not that important yet.)
 

berhaven

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Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
From berhavens description it seems to me that Baglioni and Colonna should be names for standard leaders, unless we make something out of the condottieri system, perhaps like berhaven suggested? What is your opinion on that Isaac Brock, ought there to be any leaders the Italians should pay for or should they have the same system as all other states?
(This is not the current issue, so I understand if it's not that important yet.)

I Like the idea of having real family names as standard leader names, much more logical than the generic names after towns of standard EU2. Incidentally, family names after towns in Italian were in most acses specific to the jewish community, and thus not so suited for leaders.

In theory the XV century italian wars should be covered by a payment system, but I realize that it would require a huge amount of work for something not really needed, since it would cover just a limited span of the game.
 

unmerged(6159)

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I'd agree that fixing the generic leader names would be very nice. Baglioni, Orsini, Colonna, Bentivoglio, Malatesta, Gonzaga, dal Verme, Fortebracci, and Sforza all had many family members who were condottieri. On the other hand I don't think that means that certain individuals in those families shouldn't be included as leaders.

I don't think making them pay for leaders is worth the trouble. And often when the top leaders switched sides there was more to it than cash. I say we force them into the EU2 paradigm. Plus the mercenary thing wouldn't really work after 1550.

Seems like the Italian default leader names are mostly artists. And Berhaven, I'm a little confused about the names. I mean "da Montone" is a place name, "d'Este" is a place name, as are most noble titles. (Not that I think the generic leader names are good - I'm just curious about the use of placenames.)
 

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Originally posted by Isaac Brock
I'd agree that fixing the generic leader names would be very nice. Baglioni, Orsini, Colonna, Bentivoglio, Malatesta, Gonzaga, dal Verme, Fortebracci, and Sforza all had many family members who were condottieri. On the other hand I don't think that means that certain individuals in those families shouldn't be included as leaders.

I don't think making them pay for leaders is worth the trouble. And often when the top leaders switched sides there was more to it than cash. I say we force them into the EU2 paradigm. Plus the mercenary thing wouldn't really work after 1550.

Seems like the Italian default leader names are mostly artists. And Berhaven, I'm a little confused about the names. I mean "da Montone" is a place name, "d'Este" is a place name, as are most noble titles. (Not that I think the generic leader names are good - I'm just curious about the use of placenames.)

I definitely think this is the best solution right now.
Regarding names: the examples you posed all have a di or da (d' being just a phonetic modification of di) and they are indeed noble titles. The plain place name (like Pisa, Pescara, Foggia and most of the generic names in the randomleaders.txt file with flag ITA) was mostly used to refer the ghetto somebody was from, and thus basically stated the belonging to the jewish comunity. Nothing wrong with that, just that I'd expect most leaders not being judes but nobles - probably of a low rank - and having names with the preposition.

The di or da, sometimes even de is like the german von, the french de, the dutch van and so on.
 

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Late-15th century (pre-French invasion)

That makes sense. Sort of what I thought. I've edited the top post to add my thoughts on how names should be displayed.

Anyway here is the late 15th century.

Alfonso II
King of Naples, Duke of Calabria for much of his career
Present in: EEP (NAP)
Summer 1468 Led the Neapolitan army to aid the Orsini when the Pope tried to take the fortress of Tolfa from that family. Dispute ultimately resolved diplomatically.
Fall 1468 Led army to support Roberto Malatesta, the illegitimate heir to Rimini against papal claims to that city. Served under F de Montefeltro who defeated the Papal army under Niccolo Orsini (later Pitiglano) and Alessandro Sforza.
1478 Led the Neapolitan army that invaded Tuscany after the Pazzi conspiracy. Took Montepulciano, and large chunks of Tuscan territory and engaged in an indecisive campaign against Ercole d’Este, although he caught him off guard and routed d’Este at Poggibonsi.
During his interlude in Tuscany tried to become the ruler of Siena.
1480 abandons Siena and returns to Naples to drive the Turks from Otranto. Leads the army that besieged Otranto, while G Caraciolla leads the fleet. Turks leave to dispute sucession.
1482 In the Ferrara War led the army that invaded the Papal States. On 21 August he crushed the Papal army under Roberto Malatesta in the battle of Campo Morte.
After Campo Morte he marched on Ferrara where the Venetian army under Sanseverino is under the walls. Alfonso is joined by Pitigliano leading the Florentine army and V Orsini leading the Papal army (the Pope has by now switched sides). Sanseverino abandons Ferrara and invaded Lombardy in order to support Bona of Savoy’s claims to the regency of Milan against Ludovico il Moro. Alfonso evades the Venetian army under Rene of Lorraine and ultimately invades Brescia, Bergamo and Verona forcing Sanseverino to pull back from Milan and Venice to make peace.
1484 in October Alfonso is driven from Aquila as the Barons revolt begins in Naples. In late 1485 the Pope decides to support the revolt, while the crown draws upon support from Florence and Milan. Alfonso is sent to invade the Papal States while his son fights the rebels. In May 1486 Alfonso fights a pitched battle against Sanseverino who is now serving the Pope. Under Alfonso are Trivulzio for Milan and Capponi for Florence. The battle is a draw.
In 1495 as the French army approached Naples Alfonso was given supreme command of the Neapolitan army. He led the army defending Abruzzi which basically disintegrated. He fled to Sicily, and I don’t think he campaigned as King.
Other than the name (he was never actually Alfonso II when on campaign) I have nothing to argue with. Clearly ought to stay

G. Bentivoglio
Giovanni Bentivoglio
Present in IU (MLO)
I’m also confused here. He’s the last real Bentivoglio ruler of Bologna, and I have him serving Florence under Ercole d’Este in 1478 (Pazzi war). In 1506 he led the defense of Bologna to the Papal army and surrendered it. Other than that he seems to have had very little of a military career.
I don’t see that he was important enough to stay.

Canal
Nicolo Canal
Present in EU2(VEN) EEP (VEN) IU(VEN)
Led the Venetian fleet that was to defend Negroponte in 1470. On 11 July 1470, with the fleet bearing down on the Turkish pontoon bridge between the island and the mainland, he ordered them to withdraw. After the fall of the fortress he pursued the Ottoman fleet to the Dardanelles, but takes no action against them. Becomes the scapegoat for the loss of Negroponte and is (I think) exiled.
In command for one catastrophic year. Obviously Venice ought to have an admiral around this time but P Mocenigo ought to be available. I’d represent him as a generic leader. For me, he goes unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Carafe
Oliviero Carafe, or Carafa
Not currently present in the game
Led a Papal fleet of 17 galleys that supported Pietro Mocenigo against the Ottomans from 1472-1473. Participated in the plunder of Delos, Smyrna, and Mytilene. I’ve seen claims that he planned the capture of Smyrna, but even if he did, Mocenigo commanded the allied fleet. I think he became a cardinal.
Might be nice for the papacy to get an admiral around then, and he seems to have done alright. Certainly no compelling reason to add him.

E d’Este
Ercole d’Este , Duke of Ferrara, Duke of Modena
Present in IU(NAP,VEN,TOS)
I’m also not sure why he isn’t a leader for PAR (Modena) as he was the Duke. In 1465 his brother Niccolo, then Duke, offered his services to Florentine exiles who wanted to overthrow the Medici, and when they actually attempted to do so he served in the army under Colleoni. The attack was beaten off by F Montefeltro. In 1471 he forced his brother out of Ferrara and became Duke himself.
In 1478 he was hired by Florence in the Pazzi War to oppose Alfonso II Duke of Calabria the crown prince of Naples. Pitigliano, C. Orsini and R. Gonzaga served under him. The campaign was indecisive and he was accused of being dilatory. In 1478 he was beaten by Alfonso II (then Duke of Calabria) at Poggibonsi. In 1479 the Pope sent L. Campofregoso, R Sanseverino and I Fieschi to besiege Sarzana in Tuscany, and Ercole drove them off. At the peace in 1481, he was fired by Florence under suspicion of not having wanted to oppose his father in law, King Ferrante I of Naples.
In 1482 in the Ferrara War he led the Ferrarese troops against Venice. The allied supreme command was under F Montefeltro. After Roberto Sanseverino had been diverted into Lombardy, with Alfonso II and Montefeltro following, Este drove the remaining Venetian troops out of Ferrarese territory. He died in 1505.
While he’s not someone that just couldn’t be left out, I’d say this record is good enough. I’d give him to both Florence (always in need of leaders) and Modena (after all he was the Duke). I prefer to minimize country switches, but he was Forlentine commander in chief for a major war, and monarch for Modena.

PL Farnese
Pier Luigi Farnese
Present in IU(PAP)
I don’t have anything about him militarily.
He goes unless someone has something on him.

P Fregoso
Paolo Fregoso
Present in EEP(GEN)
At the battle of Sampierdarena in July 1460 he defeated the army of Rene of Anjou who was trying to restore French rule in Genoa.
In 1481 he led a papal fleet to reinforce the Neapolitans blockading the Turkish army in Otranto, but the Turks withdrew when civil war broke out in the Ottoman Empire. He was appointed to lead the army that would drive the Turks from Otranto. In 1495, as Charles VIII returned to France he sent Phillipe de Bresse to join an army led by Fregoso and Ibletto Fieschi to attempt a coup in Genoa. The coup failed.
Not that impressive, but Genoa is short of leaders, and he did accomplish something. Could go, but on balance I’d keep him. (and not just because I suggested him)

G Loredan
Giacomo Loredan
Present in EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
Led the Venetian fleet that was sent to relive Constantinople in 1453. Arrived after it had fallen. In the 1460s he commanded the defense of the Morea against the Ottomans for a few years, without any success, serving as Captain-General after O. Giustinian and V. Capello.
I think he’s only here because of the ‘Lepanto’ effect – everyone has heard of his mission to Constantinople. I say drop him

R Malatesta
Roberto Malatesta, Captain of Rimini
Present in IU(PAP,TOS,VEN)
His succession to Rimini was contested by Sixtus IV because he was illegitimate. With aid from Naples and Milan, his army, under F Montefeltro defeated the Papal army sent against Rimini under N. Orsini (Pitigliano). In 1478 he was hired by the Pope to fight in the Pazzi war, and served under F Montefeltro. In 1479 Florence hired him away from the Pope, and he led the Florentine army to a great victory over the Papal army by Lake Trasemini.

[added]From 1479-1481 when he was capitain general of Venetian Army and led the operations in Friuli against the Turks. This was basically a war of raids unless I'm mistaken.

In 1482 at the outbreak of the Ferrara War he led the Papal army that opposed the army of Naples under Alfonso II. He totally defeated the Neapolitan army at Campo Morte on 21 August 1482 near Velletri. He went on to take some castles from the Colonna, but Sixtus IV had him killed on 10 September 1482.
Enough independent commands in major wars that I would keep him. I think the case for adding him to Florence is marginal, but I’d only give him to the Papacy. For Venice he was commander in chief, but not in a major campaign, so I'd keep him out simply to avoid duplication and keep the file a littl simpler. There is a decent case that he should stay for both Venice and Florence.

P Mocenigo
Pietro Mocenigo
Present in EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
In 1471 he was placed in command of the Venetian fleet in the Aegean. In 1472 he plundered Mytilene, Delos, Cos and the Carian coast. He was reinforced by 17 Neapolitan galleys under Requesens and 19 Papal galleys under Carafe. After further plundering, he defeated a Turkish army and sacked Smyrna, Antalya and Halicarnassus. 1473 raided along Asia Minor coast and then headed to Cyprus to secure the succession of Caterina to that Kingdom. He arrived there and occupied all the forts on the island. In 1474 he defeated the Ottoman fleet that was supporting the siege of Scutari. He returned to Venice in December 1474, after 4 years as captain general, the longest in the history of Venice, and was elected Doge. He died in 1476.
The most important Venetian admiral of his generation. Definitely stays.

F da Montefeltro
Frederigo da Montefeltro, Duke of Urbino
Present in IU(MLO,TOS, MLO,NAP,PAP,MLO,TOS,PAP)
In 1451, along with Ferrante I of Naples he led the army that invaded Tuscany and engaged in the siege of Foiano. After 44 days the siege failed and the army returned to Naples. In 1460, in the struggle between Aragon and Anjou in Naples, G Piccinino, who was serving Jean of Calabria, the Angevin claimant to the throne of Naples, defeated an allied Milanese/Neapolitan army at San Fabiano – the Neapolitan supporters of the Aragonese were under Montefeltro, while the Milanese were under Alessandro Sforza. In 1461 he took Aquila from the Angevin.
On 12 August 1462, serving the Papacy, he defeated S. Malatesta.
In 1467 when the Florentine exiles tried to drive the Medici out of Florence, Montefeltro, commanding a Milanese/Florentine/Neapolitan army beat Colleoni’s at Molinella. Machiavelli claimed that no-one was killed in this battle, most sources say he was wrong.
In 1468 with the Malatesta succession to Rimini disputed by the Pope, he led a Milanese/Neapolitan army and defeated the Papal army under N Orsini (Pitigliano) and Alessandro Sforza at Mulazzano.
In 1472 he was in Florentine hire, and on June 18 he took the rebellious city of Volterra and plundered it.
His daughter married Sixtus II’s nephew. He was made Duke and went into Papal employ. For the Pazzi War in 1478 he had overall command of Papal troops and R Malatesta and C Sforza served under him, although Alfonso Duke of Calabria was in overall command of all allied forces. He did not distinguish himself in this war.
In 1482 for the Ferrara War he led the Milanese/Ferrarese armies against the Venetian army under R Sanseverino. Sanseverino was able to overrun much of Ferrara. He died in 1482 in Bologna of Bologna, on the same day as Roberto Malatesta. Each had named the other as the executor of his will, which caused some problems.
Frederigo was known for his use of artillery and fortification.
Probably the most famous condottieri of his generation, and well known model of the ‘Renaissance Man’, should definitely stay. However, it’s tough to know who should get him. I’m inclined to skip the early campaigns for Naples (although there is a case to include those too), give him to Florence until 1475(?) when he made the RM :), and give him to the Papacy after that. A big simplification, but one that I believe is needed.

P II Ordelaffi
Present in IU (NAP,VEN,VEN,PAP,MLO,PAP)
All I know is that he was to serve under Colleoni in the attack on Florence in 1467.
[From Berhaven] Pino Ordelaffi (1436-1480), lord of Forlì and Forlimpopoli is again one of the examples of the captain-prince from Romagna. He served Naples, Rimini, Forlì, Venice (one of Colleoni's lieutnants), Milan (captain general in Romagne in 1471-73), Papacy from 1474 to his death, probably poisoned by his third wife. He reconquered Città di Castello and Todi who revolted against the Papacy under Niccolò Vitelli.
I appreciate the info, which is very good, but I'd still ditch him :(.

GV Orsini
Virginio Orsini
Present in IU (NAP,PAP,NAP,TOS)
Led Papal forces in the Pazzi War (1478-79), under F da Montefeltro. Served under R Malatesta for the Pope in the Ferrara War, where he was present at the battle of Campo Morte. After the death of R Malatesta he led the Papal army. After the Pope switched sides in the Ferrara war, he served under Alfonso of Calabria when he led the allied armies to lift the siege of Ferrara. After the failure of the Barons Revolt in 1485 Ferrante I used the confiscated assets of the rebels to hire him. In 1494 he was in Neapolitan service and initially opposed the French advance in Lazio. He switched to French service when Charles VIII arrived. When the French were driven out he was imprisoned by Ferrante II of Naples. He died in prison in 18 Jan 1497.
I think he’s another borderline case. I’d give him to the Pope, but not much happened while he was in Neapolitan hire so I’d skip that and the French episode.

Pitigliano
Niccolo Orsini, Count of Pitigliano
Present in EU1(VEN), EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN),
IU(NAP, PAP, PAP,NAP,TOS,PAP,TOS,PAP,NAP,VEN)
I’m unsure if there isn’t a different N Orsini for the 1450’s and 1460’s, however I do not think so.
In 1468 he, with A Sforza, led the Papal army that opposed the succession of Roberto Malatesta to Rimini. They were defeated by F da Montefeltro. In the Pazzi war (1478-79) he served Florence under Ercole d’Este.
In the Ferrara war, in 1483, he led the Florentine army, and served under the overall command of Alfonso duke of Calabria the Neapolitan commander.
When the Baron’s revolt of 1485 broke out in Naples he was hired by Florence and Milan to lead an army into Naples to support King Ferrante I. At the end of the revolt, with the revenues seized from the rebels Ferrante hired him.
When Charles VIII invaded in 1494 he served under (the future) Ferrante II in Romagna.
[added]By late 1495 he was in Venetian service against the French. I think by this point they were confined to Asti. In september 1497 he replaced F Gonzaga as Commander of the Venetian Army .
In 1499 he fought against Florence and Milan conquering Caravaggio, Calcio, Cremona. Here he would have been opposing Gaiazzo, and the main action was on the other side of Lombardy where Trivulzio conquered Milan.
In 1500 he served against Ottomans in Friuli, which was (definitely) a war of raids - the main war efforts were in Greece and Dalmatia.
In 1501-1507 mainly in Romagna and Lombardia.

In the 1508 campaign he stopped the Austrian army descending the Adige.
On 14 May 1509 he was near Alviano when Alviano got caught up with the French vanguard at Agnadello. He did not support his colleague, and Alviano’s army was destroyed. Pitigliano withdrew from the French, but his army deserted faster than he could retreat until it was gone. He ended up in Padua, having taken it by a coup de main, and defended it against the emperor Maximilian, Palisse, and the Papal, Ferrarese, and Mantuan armies. It beat off two assaults, and by 1 October 1509 they allies withdrew. He died in February 1510.
Known for his many sieges. No great sucess in battle
He’s clearly in because his role at Agnadello is so well known. As Venetian commander for 10 years he pretty mcuh has to stay for them. Maybe Florence could use another leader, but overall performance wasn’t exactly stellar, although he may have saved Venice at Padua. I think he has to stay for Venice, but I think that's it.

Requensens
Not currently present in the game
Led a Neapolitan fleet of 17 galleys that supported Pietro Mocenigo against the Ottomans from 1472-1473. Participated in the plunder of Delos, Smyrna, and Mytilene,
Another case where I thought it would be good for someone other than Venice to have an admiral. From what I can tell less important than Carafe the Papal admiral in the same campaigns.

R Sanseverino
Roberto Sanseverino
Present in IU(MLO,VEN,PAP,VEN)
In 1477, in the aftermath of the assassination of Galleazzo Maria Sforza and Genoese independence from Milan, he went with the army of Prospero Adorno who was made Doge and restored Milanese rule. He then took the Fieschi stronghold to restore Milanese rule throughout Liguria. In the next year Adorno turned against Milan, and Sanseverino was sent to reimpose order. He faced off against Sforza (illegitimate son of Francesco – I don’t know which one). In a hard fought battle on 7 August 1478 he beat Sforza, and drove Adorno’s supporters from Genoa.
Early 1479, along with Ludovico Fregoso and Ippolito Fieschi he led an army that invaded Tuscany and besieged Sarzana. They were driven off by Ercole d’Este.
Later, in 1479 he had switched sides to supporting the uncles of Gian Galleazzo Sforza against Simonetta and Bona the regents. He marched with Ludovico il Moro when he entered Milan on 7 September 1479.
In 1482 he was commander in chief of Venetian armies in the Ferrara war. He took Adria and Comacchio from a Milanese/Ferraran army under F. Montefeltro. When the Pope switched sides he took his army into Lombardy to preempt the allied Neapolitan/Papal army advancing on him by removing Ludovico il Moro from the regency of Milan. However, Alfonso Duke of Calabria (future Alfonso II) invaded Venetian territory, threatening to cut off Sanseverino. At this point peace was made, and he was made commander in chief for the Venetian Milanese alliance.
With the Baron’s revolt in 1485 Venice let the Pope hire him to oppose the Ferrante I of Naples. In May 1486 he faced Alfonso of Calabria who was supported by a Milanese army under Trivulzio and a Florentine army under Capponi. The battle was indecisive. By the end of the year the Pope made peace with Ferrante.
In 1487 Austria invaded Venice, and besieged Rovereto. On August 10 Sanseverino was killed in an ambush while marching to relieve it.
Clearly needs to stay for Venice. I’d say skip his Papal service as Venice had lent him to the Pope because Venice wanted to oppose Naples indirectly. He can stay Venetian for that period. I’m inclined to give him to Milan before that, simply because they need someone, again it’s a toss up as to whether his role there was important enough.

P Dal Verme
Pietro dal Verme
Present in IU(VEN,MLO)
Entered Sforza service upon the death of Ludovico, his father. In 1472 he served under Galeazzo Maria Sforza against Charles the Bold of Burgundy in Savoy.
1482 led the Milanese army to Ferrara to support the Duke. From what I can make out he served under Frederico da Montefeltro throughout the war.
I think he’s here because his family is so famous. However, I think Milan could use an extra leader at this period so I’m inclined to keep him.

C. Vitelli
Camillo Vitelli
Present in IU(TOS,PAP)
[from Berhaven]Camillo Vitelli (1459-1496). Mainly famous for being considered the first commander of a mounted handgunner unit, forerunner of the later dragoons. Served Papacy up to 1489, then Florence up to 1494, when he joined Charles VIII. Later he served Pisa, Florence and again France.
In 1496, in Apulia, he led an army of 400 lances, 500 light horses and 4000 infantry. In april around Lucera won a battle against a square of some 700 german pikemen under Herderling serving Naples. With only 400 mounted archibugieri he defeted the square with the first known use of the tactics of the caracole, i.e. having his men coming close to the square, firing their handguns and retiring to reload. This tactics became very popular several decades later among german reiters.
A month later he got killed during the assault on the small fort of Circello, hit on his head by a stone thrown by a woman on the walls.

I actually think that as the first guy to use the caracole he might be worth keeping. However, not for France, and not for Naples. Maybe Florence?

edit: Added comments about Malatesta from berhaven. Revised my editorial comment somewhat
edit: Added comments from Berhaven for Pitigliano. I've changed my mind, he should stay. By the way, Norwich has him being hired in 1508 (unless I misread him). Goes to show there are a lot of mistakes out there.
edit3: Copied Berhaven for Vitelli and Ordelaffi.
 
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Some notes:

Roberto Malatesta could well be also for Venice in 1479-1481 when he was capitano generale of Venetian Army and lead the operations in Friuli against the Turks.
More important, his relationship with Venice is one of the foundaments of the later claims on Romagna by Serenissima.

Pino Ordelaffi (1436-1480), lord of Forlì and Forlimpopoli is again one of the examples of the captain-prince from Romagna (and again Ordelaffi could be another excellent name for generic italian leader as I know of seven members of the family listed as condottieri). Francesco Sforza was his godfather, anh he served Naples, Rimini, Forlì, Venice (one of Colleoni's lieutnants), Milan (captain general in Romagne in 1471-73), Papacy from 1474 to his death, probably poisoned by his third wife. He reqonquered Città di Castello and Todi who revolted against the Papacy under Niccolò Vitelli.

Niccolò Orsini (1442-1510) Count of Pitigliano. Apart all you already wrote we can add that in august -november 1495 he was serving Venice in Piemonte against the French with the rank of Capitano Generale. In september 1497 he received the stick of COmmander of Venetian Army replacing Gonzaga. In 1499 fought agains Florence and Milan conquering Caravaggio, Calcio, Cremona. In 1500 against Ottomans in Friuli. In 1501-1508 mainly in Romagna and Lombardia. Typical example of the Italian art of War all made of sieges, he was bad in open field battles.

Camillo Vitelli (1459-1496). I guess it's him, even if we have 3 other members of the family (among the 16 listed) whose name begins with C. Mainly famous for being considered the first commander of a mounted handgunner unit, forerunner of the later dragoons. Served Papacy up to 1489, then Florence up to 1494, when he joined Charles VIII. Later he served Pisa, Florence and again France.
In 1496 was leading a in Apulia an army of 400 lances, 500 light horses and 4000 infantry. In april around Lucera won a battle against a square of some 700 german pikemen under Herderling serving Naples. With only 400 mounted archibugieri he defeted the square with the first known use of the tactics of the caracollo, i.e. having his men coming close to the square, firing their handguns and retiring to reload. This tactics became very popular several decades later among german reiters.
A month later he got killed during the assault on the small fort of Circello, hit on his head by a stone thrown by a woman on the walls.
A very interesting example of innovator who died too young to become a real great commander.
Personally I think he could well stay, with a fire bonus.
 

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Berhaven I've added your commentary, and changed some of my stated opinions. Thanks. I'm sure you'll be amused to know that it's "caracole" in English, and the symbol of a marshal's command is a "baton". I think English is easiest for those who speak latin languages when it is VERY obscure! :)
 

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Originally posted by Isaac Brock
Berhaven I've added your commentary, and changed some of my stated opinions. Thanks. I'm sure you'll be amused to know that it's "caracole" in English, and the symbol of a marshal's command is a "baton". I think English is easiest for those who speak latin languages when it is VERY obscure! :)

Maybe that's why England has a French culture in GC;)

BTW it's amazing how many technical words in English do come from Latin. Upper classes used to speak Latin, French and Venetian. I love the fact that the live animal has a Saxon name (since the poor saxon peasant used to watch the cattle) and the meat has the French name, since the Norman noble used to eat it.
 

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Turn of 16th century (pre-Marignano)

Alviano
Bartolomeo Orsini Count of Alviano
Present in: EU1 (VEN), EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN), IU(PAP,NAP,VEN)
I don’t have much on his early career. Upon the death of Alexander VI in 1503 he helped GP Baglioni return to power in Perugia. Sounds like freelance work to me. From Perugia he went to help the Orsini (his family) in the chaos of Rome after Alexander’s death. Was present under Baglioni when he beat the C Borgia’s army under Coriglia near Perugia.
On 17 August 1505 he was leading troops to aid Pisa (presumably hired to them) when he was defeated by Florentine army under E. Bentivoglio and A Giacomomini.
By 1508 he is in Venetian hire. Austria declares war over issue of passage of imperial army to coronation in Rome. Alviano beats an Austrian column under the emperor Maximilian near Vicenza, then force marched to the Piave to defeat another prong of the imperial attack. He then invaded Hapsburg territory and took Goriza, Trieste and Fiume and a truce is agreed in June 1508.
In the Cambrai war, on 14 May 1509 after a dispute with Pitigliano, the other Venetian general, his army becomes entangled with the French vanguard under Chaumont at Agnadello. He readily repulsed several attacks, but Pitigliano didn’t support him and Louis XII arrived with the main French army and almost surrounded him. He is ultimately badly beaten and captured.
In March 1513 Venice and France make peace and ally and Alviano is released from captivity. When the French invade Lombardy from the west in May his Venetian army invades from the West taking Cremona and a couple of other important towns and begins siege of Brescia (still held by the Austrians). The French lose the great battle of Novara in June, and Alviano has to retreat.
He moves on Verona (also still imperial held) and tries to assault it but fails. He then falls back on Vicenza and then Padua. From 28 July to 16 August he is besieged in Padua by Cardona (Spanish). Cardona can’t sustain the siege and falls back on Vicenza, where Alviano employs a Fabian strategy to keep him from supplies. With many volunteers joining his army, on 7 October he risked a fight with Cardona clash at Schio, near Vicenza. Cardona manages to hold Alviano off in a hard fought battle, and Alviano suffers large losses.
In 1514 the war becomes more irregular. By harassing Cardona Alviano slowly forces him back, and beats an army under Rovigo Este in battle.
In 1515 the French invade Lombardy again. Cardona has a very difficult time getting out of Verona to try to oppose them. He heads for Piacenza to join up with Papal and Florentine armies with Alviano following to Cremona. Francis I, having taken Milan pushes hard to take the line of the Po to cut off the Swiss from Cardona. This leads to the great battle of Marignano between Francis and the Swiss – it is very hard fought but Alviano settles the issue by showing up on the second day. All of Lombardy now in Venetian/French hands and the Swiss make peace. As the Venetians besiege Brescia, Bergamo and Verona Alviano dies 7 Oct 1515.
One of the most important. However, I think I’d just leave him as a general for Venice – his earlier service doesn’t strike me as being important enough.

GP Baglioni
Gian Paolo Baglioni
Present in IU (TOS, PAP, TOS, PAP,VEN)
In 1499 as lieutenant to C Borgia assists in sieges of Pesaro, Faenza, and Rimini. In June 1501 Borgia who needed to be back in Rome left the siege of Piombino to Vitellozzo Vitelli with GP Baglioni second in command. City falls 3 September 1501.
By 1502 he is working for Florence, and along with F Orsini and P Petrucci is beaten by Vitellozzo Vitelli who then takes Arezzo.
In 9 October 1502 he is part of the conspiracy of the condotierri against Borgia. He is one of many condotierri in the army that beats Ugo Moncada and Michele Coriglia who are loyal to Borgia. Borgia reconciles with the rebels by the end of October, but in December he tricks the ringleaders and has them executed. Baglioni flees to Siena and then Lucca.
When Alexander VI dies in 1503 with assistance from Alviano he reinstalls himself as lord of Perugia. From here he went to Rome to support the Orsini against the Colonna. Beat M Coriglia working for C Borgia near Perugia preventing him from relieving the pressure against Borgia’s holdings in Romagna.
In 1504 he is hired by Florence to fight Pisa, is placed under Ercole Bentivoglio. Campaign is one of Machiavelli’s centerpieces on the evils of mercenaries – not much happens.
13 September 1506 Julius II takes Perugia from GP Baglioni. Early 1510 sent by Pope to command Venetian army after death of Pitigliano. In February 1512 he loses a battle to Foix at Isola della Scala in Lombardy. After Ravenna (1512) he is joined by Swiss troops in Papal pay (under Schiner) and takes Cremona.
Tough to know what to do with him. A reasonably important guy with a good record, but service all over the place and to lots of entities not represented in the game. I would skip his Venetian service, as he was basically “on loan” from the Papacy. Biut of course he opposed the pope in 1506. For now I too confused and feel inclined to leave him out. Suggestions for him welcome.

Bayard
Present in EU(FRA,SAV), EU2(FRA,SAV), EEP(FRA,SAV)
One of the most famous French knights. Fought in 1512 under Foix, played an important role at Ravenna. In 1515, with de Palisse he defeated Prospero Colonna. He was involved in subsequent campaigns, and took command of the French army after Bonnivet was hurt. He was killed charging Spanish arqubusier on 30 April 1524.
He’s a French general and that’s all he should be called.

AG Bentivoglio
Present in IU (PAP)
Unless he’s the Bentivoglio who served with C. Borgia I have no idea who he is.
He goes unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Ann Bentivoglio
Present in IU (TOS, PAP? same guy)
I think he served Naples when Charles VIII invaded (1494). If so he then defected to the French and I don’t know anything further.
Doesn’t seem that important.

Borgia
Cesar Borgia, Duke of Valentois
Present in EU1 (VEN,PAP) EU2(VEN,PAP) EEP (PAP) IU(PAP,TOS,PAP)
I can quote why he was ever a Venetian leader:
Cesare Borgia was the son of the game's first pope, Alexander IV, by the way. Anyway, he could be a Venetian leader in the first years, and he should have a great siege value. Later (from about 1496), he could switch allegiance to the Papacy.
Which is from an early IGC thread (before it was the IGC). Since then I count at least 6 separate people pointing out that he never served Venice, but it did no good at all.
Now Borgia is a very well known character. Other than the Medici and a couple of the popes I don’t think there is a better known renaissance politician. I’m no expert, and corrections/additions would be greatly appreciated by those who’ve read Machiavelli better than I have. But here is my version of his military career:
He gave up his cardinalate on 17 August 1498. In 1499 he accompanied Louis XII in his invasion of Lombardy. He then began to carve out a kingdom for himself in central Italy. He takes Imola (9 Dec) and Forli (12 Jan 1500) and attacks Cesena. He spends the summer in Rome (I think) and takes Pesaro on 27 October 1500, Rimini in mid November and then besieges Faenza on 20 November 1500. Assaults on the 25 November and 18 April, the second is successful. In the spring of 1501 he sends aid to Pisa (which I guess is why IU has him as a Tuscan leader). On 4th June he attacks Piombino but leaves the siege in the hands of Baglioni and Vitelli. It falls in September.
In the summer of 1501 he takes part in the French invasion of Naples, and takes Capua from F Colonna on July 24 1501, and puts the town to a terrible sack.
In 1501 he demanded the restoration of the Medici in Florence, and was bought off by being made Captain General of the Florentine armies.
On 13 June 1502 he leaves Rome, and requests artillery and troops from Guidobaldo Montefeltro Duke of Urbino to fight Florence. When these leave Urbino Borgia occupies the undefended town and makes himself duke of Urbino. It doesn’t matter because in 18 June Vitelli who is in Borgia’s employ defeats the Florentines and takes Arezzo. Louis XII forces Borgia to return Arezzo to Florence.
In October 1502 as he’s moving against Bologna, a number of condotierri (most in his pay) conspire to stop him. Orsini returns Montefeltro to Urbino, and Moncada and Coriglia, two of his loyal generals are defeated by the rebels. Louis XII sends aid, and soon a compromise is reached and the rebels return to the fold on 25 October 1502. On 31 December as he’s entering Fano Borgia has his lieutenants Vitellozzo Vitelli, P Orsini, the duke of Gravina, and Oliverotto arrested. He immediately executes Vitelli and Oliverotto, and on 18 Jan 1503 kills Gravina and Orsini. After this he faces no real opposition from his generals.
In the summer of 1503 he planned the conquest of Florence while negotiating with Venice and France. However, on 18 Aug 1503 Alexander VI (Borgia’s father) dies and everything falls apart. In Lazio the Colonna revolt. GP Baglioni returns to Perugia, Appiano returns to Piombiono, and lords of Urbino and Pesaro return. The Orsini return to Rome, Malatesta had yields Rimini to Venice, while Venice also takes Faenza and Montefiore. Borgia sends M Coriglia to defend Romagna. He is beaten by GP Baglioni near Perugia.
Turning to the Spanish (Gonsalvo de Cordova) for help he is seized and sent to Spain for trial. He is killed in some adventures in Navarre.
Obviously MUST NOT be a Venetian general :). Papal general works just fine for me, and he has to stay in the game!

F Colonna
Fabrizio Colonna
Present in IU(NAP,PAP,NAP)
Hired by Ferrante I of Naples in the period 1486-1487. In 1494 as Charles VIII approached Naples he switched sides. Led the column of Charles’ army that took Abruzzi. In July 1495, as Charles VIII’s rule in Naples began to collapse switched side to join the Aragonese (Alfonso II) again.
He was present with the Duke of Gandia when the latter was beaten by the Orsini forces under Vitellozzo Vitelli at Soriano in 1497.
When the French and Spanish invaded Naples in 1500, he was left to defend Capua. After collapse of the Neapolitan cause served Spain. Present during the stand-off siege of Gonsalvo de Cordova in Barletta.
Present at Cerisole (another of Cordova’s great victories), and conquers Abruzzi in the aftermath. Commented that the ditch at Cerisole gave the Spanish the victory. Continues in Spanish service. Present at Ravenna in 1512, where he commanded Cardona’s left. At Ravenna he is surrounded after the failure of Prospero Colonna’s attack on Alfonso d’Este and forced to surrender. I’m not sure what happened to him after that.
His most obvious role would be as a Spanish general. He was quite sucessful for Spain. However, as Naples shouldn’t be getting anyone else, and he isn’t in the Spanihs file I’m OK with Naples getting him from 1486 onwards. Ferrante V of Spain was King of Naples at that time.

M Colonna
Marcantonio Colonna
Present in IU(NAP,TOS,PAP)
I have nothing on his service in Naples. In 1504 he was hired by Florence in their war against Pisa. He served under Ercole Bentivoglio in an uneventful campaign. In Autumn 1510 he was sent by Julius II, with Ottaviano Fregoso to make an attempt on Genoa. This failed. In 1512 he was in command of the Papal garrison of Ravenna. On April 8 he defeated an assault from Foix. The garrison played no part in the battle that followed. I don’t know what happened to him after this.
He is most famous for his impressive defense of Ravenna prior to the battle. I’m not sure it’s enough, but if an extra Papal general is needed he might work. I wouldn’t include him before that.

Este
Present in EU1(PAP), EU2(PAP), EEP(PAP)
He’s listed as a papal general between 1490 and 1505. I have to assume he’s Alfonso d’Este Duke of Ferrara. See below.

A d’Este
Alfonso d’Este , Duke of Ferrara, Duke of Modena
Present in IU(PAP)
No idea why he isn’t in the IU mod for PAR (Modena).
He succeeded to the Estensi Duchies in 1505. In 1509 he joined the League of Cambrai hoping to recover the losses taken from Ferrara in 1484. At this point he was made Commander in chief of Papal Armies. In the spring of 1509 he took various towns in the Po delta from Venice. In the winter of 1509-1510 Venice sent an army and fleet against Ferrara. When Chaumont brought a French army the Venetian army withdrew and Alfonso destroyed the fleet (under Angelo Tevisiani) with his artillery at Polesella. In the spring of 1510 he served under Chaumont at the (unsuccessful) siege of Vicenza. That summer the pope made peace with Venice, and opposed Ferrara, excommunicating Alfonso. FM della Rovere with papal troops took Modena and Reggio, I don’t know if Alfonso was present to defend it. Henceforth their recovery was one of his chief goals. In January-February of 1511 Julius II himself supervised the Papal armies as they took towns from Ferrara. Alfonso beat the army (not sure who was in command), and, in May 1511 Alfonso led the French vanguard to Bologna, where a popular coup kicked out the Papal government. The citizens took down a huge copper statue of Julius II and sold it to Alfonso for scrap. He cast a cannon from it, and called the cannon ‘Julius’. Throughout this period he was in French pay, although he was clearly looking out for Ferrara’s interests.
He opposed the Holy League, and I believe served under Foix when he lifted the League siege of Bologna. At the great battle of Ravenna he led the Left flank of Foix’ army, and played the critical role of outflanking and bombarding the Spanish right. This caused Navarro to attack him, at which point Navarro was hit in the flank by Alegre and crushed. F Colonna, commanding the Spanish right surrendered to Alfonso.
As the French withdrew from Italy he tried unsuccessfully to make peace with the Pope
I’m not sure what he was up to or the next 13 years, but he was always associated with the French cause, often to his peril. In 1523 he managed to retake (and keep) Reggio. After Pavia (1525) he switched to the imperialists, and as the army of Bourbon marched on Rome he managed to recover Modena as well. He was present in Orange’s army at the Sack of Rome.
He was known as an innovator in artillery and a great artillerist. The large artillery park he built up for Ferrara meant he was always sought out as a useful ally.
While making him a papal general is somewhat justified, he makes more sense as a French general. On the other hand he was always Duke of Ferrara so I’d juts give him to Modena (PAR) for the duration.

Ferrante II
King of Naples. Also known as Ferdinandino (in English)
Present in EU1(NAP), EEP(NAP)
Not quite sure why he was removed between EU1 and EU2 (Paradox).
In 1485 he led the Neapolitan army that opposed the rebelling barons while Alfonso fought in the Papal States.
In 1494 he led the army in Romagna that waited for Charles VIII with GG Trivulzio and Pitigliano under command. He advanced as far as Parma, but faced by a Milanese/Swiss army under Gaiazzo (MLO) and Aubigny (FRA) withdrew from Northern Italy. By December the army was defending Rome, but disappeared as Charles VIII approached. Shortly thereafter Ferrante fled Naples altogether for Sicily.
In May1495 with Gonsalvo de Cordoba he landed in Reggio (the town in the south not the region), and began the reduction of all French position in the Kingdom of Naples. In July 1496, when he took Atella the last French troops surrendered.
He seems to be in for legacy reasons. He didn’t accomplish much, and I’m unconvinced he’s needed. Interesting the Paradox didn’t keep him when EU2 was released. I agree with them, let’s ditch him.

E Fieramosca
Present in IU(NAP)
[edited] Seems like a hero of the Barletta incident. Which was in Spanish service, and had no military consequence whatsoever, except to distract the French from the peril of their situation.
So I still think he should go. I know nothing about the novel, and if he is really that well known then maybe I can accept it. Perhaps for Sicily rather than Naples?

F Fregoso
Frederigo Fregoso
Present in EEP(GEN)
After 1510, under Ottaviano Fregoso he fought the Fieschi and Adorno families and against pirates. He beat Cortogli an admiral from Tunis off Bizerte, and then took and looted Djerba. He led the (unsuccessful) defense of Genoa in 1522, with no great merit as far as I can tell.
A reasonable choice. I’m inclined to prefer Ottaviano Fregoso, but in the siege of Genoa he (and Pedro Navarro, FRA) led the defense Ottaviano was doge. Only one of the two should stay.

O Fregoso
Ottaviano Fregoso
Not currently in the game
In 1510 with the support of Julius II he and MA Colonna took an army to attempt (unsuccessfully) to overthrow the French rule of Genoa. He fought the Fieschi and Adorno families for the next few years. In then aftermath of the battle of Novara 1513 with the support of the Spanish army of Pescara he came to Genoa. On 17 June Fregoso made doge as Adorno and the French withdrew. In 1515 he led 4000 Genoese troops to join Francis I, and I believe he fought at Marignano with the French. He was doge in 1522 when the city was sacked.
I think he did slightly more than Frederigo Fregoso but I’m ready to be contradicted.

Caiazzo
Giovanni Francesco Sanseverino, Count of Caiazzo, I’ve also seen him as Count of Gaiazzo
Present in EEP(MLO)
In 1494 when Ferrante Duke of Calabria was advancing into Romagna to oppose Charles VIII, He led the Milanese army, that, with the Swiss under Aubigny opposed him. After a long stalemate in which Caiazzo was entrenched in boggy terrain, Ferrante withdrew without any fighting.
In 1495, at Fornova he led the Milanese contingent in the league army, and was basically co-commander with Francesco Gonzaga who led the larger Venetian component. He led the right wing of the army. The league attacked the rear. After initial success the Italians took the French baggage train, but when Charles VIII returned with the French center the Italians were outflanked, and had to pull back. This meant that the French were allowed to withdraw without their baggage. At least half the league army was unengaged. I’m not sure of Caiazzo’s role in all of this.
In 1499 he led the Milanese army that opposed the Venetian forces. All the action was on the other front (against France), so I don’t think he saw much action before il Moro’s cause collapsed.
Borderline. Fornova is obviously a very famous battle, and to me that is enough to justify keeping him. But I’m basically on the fence.

Gandia
Duke of Gandia, Giovanni Borgia
Present in EEP(PAP)
Son of Pope Alexander VI, he was granted the fiefs (Benevento, Terracina and Pontecorvo) of Virginio Orsini after the latter was imprisoned after Fornova for collaborating with Charles VIII. In 1495 Alexander decided that the time was ripe to destroy the power of the Orsini, and raised an army to take their possessions. Gandia was made commander of all papal armies, and was assisted by Guidobaldo de Montefeltro, Duke of Urbino, who was on loan from Venice. Although most of the Orsini castles fell to Gandia, their main stronghold, Bracciano, held out for months, and the Orsini were able to make sorties that reached to Rome to raise their supporters.
In the meantime Vitellozzo Vitelli raised an army from other Papal fiefs who felt threatened by the attack on the Orsini. He then marched to raise the siege of Bracciano, and was met on the way by the papal army. On January 25 1497 at the battle of Soriano (an ominous name if I’ve ever heard one), Gandia was injured, and Urbino captured along with all his baggage, as Vitelli outflanked their army on both sides and destroyed it.
On the 14th June 1497 he was murdered, most likely on the orders of his brother Cesare.
Not terribly successful. Well known as he’s a Borgia, but I’d drop him. I mean the fact that the real life pope appointing a marginally competent son as general shouldn’t help the nation in the game

Fran. Gonzaga
Francesco Gonzaga Marquis of Mantua
Present in EEP(VEN), IU(MLO,VEN,MAN)
In the Ferrara War he served Milan, with his father Frederico. Independently he took Asola (in Venetian Lombardy) in 1483 (I think) although it was retaken thereafter. Francesco held off the Venetian armies that invaded Mantua. From July 14 1484 he was Marquis of Mantua. In 1490 when his contract with Milan expired he switched to Venetian service.
As general of Venetian armies he led the League army that fought at Fornova, with Caiazzo as second in command. The Italians fell on the French rear, but when the French center reached the battle the Italians were nearly surrounded in a hard fight. The French withdrew their (intact) army, leaving their baggage behind. It was a victory of sorts, but not much of one.
He served in Apulia in the (Venetian) campaigns that drove the French out of Naples in 1495-96. By this time he had caught syphilis (which arrived into Italy in 1494) and was frequently incapacitated. In 1497 Venice terminated his contract, and in 1498 he went into Imperial service, although his salary was provided by Milan. He walked away from this work, and took no part in the campaign of 1499 when the French took Milan.
He served in the army of Julius II in 1506 when that pope took Perugia and Bologna.
In 1509 he was in French service, and assigned to defend Milan. He fought a desultory campaign against Venice, and was not present at Agnadello. On 3 August 1509 Francesco, he was captured at della Scala by ??, and remained a captive until 1510. He became a general for Julius II and Venice, but refused to offend France by taking any action against her. He died in March 1519, having taken no part in the campaigns after 1510.
Another tricky one. He commanded at Fornova, and that’s worth something, but he didn’t really accomplish much else. I’d give him to Milan, and [/i]possibly[/i] to Mantua after that.

Giulio II
Pope Julius II, Giuliano Della Rovere, Giulio in Italian
Present in EU1(PAP), EU2(PAP), EEP(PAP) (note that he was removed from the IGC)
Much of his reign was spent trying to establish papal power in the Papal States. He was present at the head of the papal armies in 1506 when Perugia was taken from the Baglioni (September 13), and Bologna from the Bentivoglio (1 November). Direct command of Papal forces was entrusted to Alfonso d’Este in the war of the League of Cambrai, but after the Pope reconciled with Venice and Este refused to, Julius led the army that he sent against Ferrara. It took Sassuolo in two days in January 1511, and ‘concord’ and ‘aiming it’ in the same month, and ultimately Mirandola. However, he was not present at the (unsuccessful) papal siege of Bologna, nor at the battle of Ravenna in April 1512. He died on 21 February 1513.
While not absolutely required I’d say he stays.

A Loredan
Andrea Loredan
Present in EU1(VEN), EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
He was commanding at Corfu in 1499, and upon his own initiative brought his squadron out to join the main Venetian fleet under Antonio Grimani at Sapienza. Grimani was not a seaman, and he did not get along with Loredan. When Loredan attacked the Turkish fleet Grimani held back. Borrack, the commander of one of the largest Turkish ships became separated from the Turkish ships and was attacked by Loredan and d’Armer. Borrack set his ship on fire, and all three ships were burned.
I believe that he is the Andrea Loredan who was the proveditor captured and killed at the battle of Schio on October 7 1513. This was a battle between the Venetians under Alviano and the Spanish under Cardona.
I’d keep him as he seems to have been decent. Another borderline case though.

Machiavelli
Niccolo Machiavelli
Present in EU1(TOS),EU2(TOS), EEP(TOS)
Obviously very famous. Never led an army. I found out how he got into the game. (This is a very old quote, 2000 I think)
-My thoughts were that he was never ever in the field at all. He was just a political advisor, an ambassador, a farmer, an author, and a playwright.
-Oh. Machiavelli was in the field all right. He didn't have quite the success of Francesco Sforza and Cesare Borgia, but he did OK.
I don’t have the name of the second author, but he’s just plain wrong. Machiavelli was a civilian. He was a government representative with a couple of armies, and followed Cesare Borgia around. He worked to establish the Florentine militia. He never, ever led an army.
Absolutely should not be in the game as a leader.

Malvezzo
Lucio Malvezzo
Present in EU1(VEN), EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
He was a condotierri in Venetian pay when he took Legnano in July 1509, threatening the communications of the French army besieging Padua. In August 1510 he was confirmed as commander in chief of the Venetian armies, and led the Venetian forces that liberated Bassano, Marostica and Vicenza. He pursued Anhalt (the Austrian general) from Vicenza to the gates of Verona, but here he hesitated, and the Austrians were able to put Verona in a state of defense.
I’m not sure what happened to him after that.
Commander in chief for a short period of time, I’d suggest we get rid of him. Alviano would realistically be available during his tenure so he won’t be missed.

GB da Montefeltro
Guidobaldo de Montefeltro, Duke of Urbino
Present in IU(VEN,PAP,VEN,PAP)
Son of the great Frederigo, he did rather less well. In the aftermath of the French invasion of 1494-95 he served under the Duke of Gandia in his campaigns against the Orsini. He was captured at the battle of Soriano where Gandia was defeated. I don’t know what his involvement in the French invasion of 1499 was, but in 1502 Cesare Borgia requested that he provide artillery for Borgia’s upcoming campaign. Once the artillery was out of Urbino Borgia brought his army into the city and made himself Duke of Urbino. Guidobaldo fled to Venice, and although he was able to return when the people revolted against Borgia he was expelled again. He regained his Duchy in 1503 upon the death of Alexander VI and the fall of Cesare Borgia. From 1506 he was nominally in command of the Papal armies including the campaign to take Bologna. However, Julius II commanded in person. Montefeltro died in 1508.
Commander in chief for a short period of time, I’d suggest we get rid of him. Alviano would realistically be available during his tenure so he won’t be missed.

A II Ordelaffi
Anton Maria Ordelaffi
Present in IU (VEN)
[from Berhaven]Lord of Forlì and Forlimpopoli. Nothing really special with him. Enemy of Caterina Sforza Riario for the control of Forlì. Fought mainly for himself and for Venice.
I suspect he's in there because of Caterina Sforza. I don't see a need to keep him.

Pesaro
Beneto Pesaro
I’m suggesting him as a possible alternative to Andrea Loredan (and Grimani). In 1500 he replaced Grimani in command of the Venetian fleet. He was outnumbered and the fleet was in poor position after the losses of the previous year. He was unable to prevent the fall of Modone (the most important Venetian port in the Morea) to the Ottomans, although it fell by an assault. The demoralized Venetian garrisons in Corone and Navarino also surrendered to the Ottomans. Late in the season he occupied Aegina and plundered Mytilene. In October, with Gonzalo de Cordova and a Spanish fleet, he took Cephalonia and recovered Zonchio from the Ottomans, before Spanish went back to Sicily. In 1501 he destroyed some Turkish ships at Prevasa, and occupies Alessio (not a major conquest) in desultory fighting. Conquered Santa Mauro with aid from the Pope and Knights. Peace was signed early inn1503, very unfavourable for Venice. Not a stellar record, but he was in command, and certainly did better than Grimani. On the basis of that I prefer to replace Grimani and A Loredan with him. (I've listed Grimani by his in game dates, next section)

Polani
Vicenco Polani
Present in EU1(VEN), EU2(VEN), EEP(VEN)
Commanded a squadron at the debacle of Sapienza (Zonchio) in 1499 against the Ottomans. Distinguished himself in this battle.
I prefer to keep Andrea Loredan rather than him.

G Sanseverino
Present in EEP(MLO), IU(MLO)
All I have on him is his role in 1499, when he led the Milanese army that faced the French invasion of Milan. Under overwhelming pressure he had to abandon the field. There was a G Sanseverino present in the French army at Pavia, but I think it’s someone else.
I don’t think he’s worth keeping.

A Savelli
Present in IU(PAP)
He was one of the leaders of the French army that invaded Abruzzi in 1494, and was one of the generals left behind in Naples when he returned to France.
I’m not sure how he made it through the collapse there, but by 1499 he was one of Cesare Borgia’s lieutenants in the conquest of the Romagna. After 1504 he was one of the condotierri hired by Florence to fight Pisa under Ercole Bentivoglio.
Generally not in command, so I say drop him.

T Savelli
Present in IU(PAP,PAP,PIS,VEN,PAP)
I don’t know
Until I hear otherwise...

V Savelli
Present in IU(VEN)
I don’t know
Also goes otherwise.

Schiner
Mathias Schiner, Archbishop of Sion. Sometimes spelled Schinner.
Currently not present in the game
He was the head of pro-Papal faction in Switzerland, opposing the pro-French faction. In 1512 he commanded the Swiss-Venetian army that drove the French out of Milan after the battle of Ravenna. In 1513, after Massimiliano Sforza had been driven out by the French again, Schiner led the Swiss army that beat the French under Tremouille at Novara returning Lombardy to Sforza’s control.
In 1515 he commanded the Swiss army at Marignano. He was fighting GG Trivulzio to a draw until Alviano’s Venetians arrived to crush the Swiss, and end the myth of their invincibility.
In 1516 he led a Swiss army to lift Gaston Foix’s sieges of Brescia and Verona, but then left to try to secure an alliance with England. While he was away his influence in Switzerland was overthrown by the pro-French party of Georg Supersax.
He participated in the Spanish campaign that drove the French from Milan in 1521, leading Swiss mercenaries for Charles V.
The Swiss could use another general, and even though these armies weren’t so much led as managed he fits the bill. Novara was a major victory.

L Sforza
Ludovico Sforza ‘il Moro’, Duke of Milan
Present in EU1(MLO), EU2(MLO)
In 1477, with Ottaviano Sforza and Roberto Sanseverino, he led the army that helped Prospero Adorno beat off Genoese exiles who tried to overthrow the government. In 1478 he led an army against Milan and the regent Bona of Savoy. In 1500 he was with the Swiss who reinstalled him in Milan, although I don’t know whether he had a military role. He was then besieged in Novara, again not sure whether he commanded the army.
Not much of a military career. I’m pretty comfortable with the EEP decision to axe him.

M Sforza
Massimiliano Sforza, Duke of Milan
Present in EU(MLO) EU2(MLO) EEP(MLO)
I’m not sure how much military experience he really had. He was made Duke in 1512 when the French withdrew after the battle of Ravenna. In 1513 he was besieged in Novara by Tremouille until the battle of Novara. As far as I know he was not present at that battle. In 1515 I have him besieged (again) in Milan after his Swiss troops abandoned him. He didn’t resist for long and was taken captive to France and dies in captivity.
Also not much of a military career.

Trivulzio
GG Trivulzio
Present in IU(MLO,NAP)
In 1472 he was one of the many condotierri who served under Galleazo Maria Sforza in the war against Charles the Bold of Burgundy.
In the Pazzi war he led troops from Milan to support Florence. In this role he served under Ercole d’Este.
In 1486 during the Barons revolt in Naples he led the Milanese contingent that fought with Florentine and Neapolitan troops against the Papal force of Sanseverino. I think Alfonso Duke of Calabria (Naples) was in overall command. In May they fought to a tie. With the peace and the confiscation of the assets of the Barons Trivulzio was hired by Naples.
In 1494 he served under Ferrante Duke of Calabria in Romagna. As the Neapolitan cause collapsed in early 1495 he was in command of the defense of Capua, but in February he opened the doors and joined the French service. He joined Charles VIII in the return to France, and commanded the French vanguard at Fornova (where he wasn’t very much engaged in battle).
In 1499 he led the French invasion of Milan. He took over all of Lombardy in a quick campaign and became governor of Milan for Louis XII. He then marched on the Romagna, but returned when il Moro returned to Milan with his Swiss. He returned to Lombardy and forced il Moro to Novara where Trivulzio eventually captured him.
Although he fought in the Cambrai war he was not in command. However, on 11 February 1511 with the death of Chaumont he became the commander of the French army. However by the end of the year Gaston Foix was in command. I don’t know if he was at present at Foix’s great triumph of Ravenna, but he defended Milan after that battle until he had to abandon it as Palisse withdrew.
In March 1513 with Tremouille he invaded Lombardy again, and by May had secured all of Lombardy. I believe he was present at the great defeat of the French at Novara, but Tremouille was in command.
In 1515 he accompanied Francis I in his invasion of Lombardy. He was detached to occupy Milan prior to the battle of Marignano, which was won by Francis. In late 1515 he was sent to help the Venetians finally take the last Imperial held cities, Brescia, Bergamo and Verona. I’m not sure what happened to him after that.
Definitely an important general, but he ought really be French. I’m tempted to give him to Milan, as they are short at this time. I don’t think he Neapolitan service should be included.

Uffreducci
Oliverotto Uffreducci, Oliverotto da Fermo
Present in EU(TOS), EU2(TOS), EEP(TOS),
From what I can tell he was a cardinal. Cesare Borgia had him murdered in 1503. I do not know why he has been called Uffreducci, as that’s not how I’ve usually seen him described. He is described by Machiavelli, and this is how he got into the game:
From the old IGC thread and explains how he ended up in the game
Then there is Oliverotti Uffreducci, who was a general strongly opposed to the Papacy. He could be Florentine, for instance (many of the Renaissance leaders of Italy were known to change allegiances a lot, and Oliverotti's main agenda was fighting the Papacy. He originated in Ferma in that minor state). This leader lived until 1503, and was a decent if not good general.
He did not originate in Fermo, but rather seized the lordship of that city. By 1501 he was in the service of Cesare Borgia, and was sent by him to Pisa, where I think he fought the Florentines. However, he remained in Borgia’s service.
In June 1502 he was (I think) second in command in Borgia’s coup against Urbino, where Cesare lured GB Montefeltro out of the city by requesting support for his war against Florence, and then seized Urbino and made himself Duke.
In October of that year, as Borgia moved on Bologna he was one of many of Cesare’s generals who conspired against him, and then fought him in battle.
I’m pretty sure he was present when the rebels meet Ugo Moncada and Michele Coriglia and beat them. He, along with the rest of the rebels reconciled with Borgia under Louis XII’s arbitration by the end of October.
In 31 December 1502 he entered Fano with Borgia, and was seized and later executed.
Lepanto effect. He was one of the examples Machiavelli discusses, so is well known to secondary sources. It wouldn’t be ridiculous to get rid of him, but I think it’s called for. If he’d kept he should be Oliverotto.

P Vitelli
Paolo Vitelli
Present in IU(PAP,TOS,TOS), EU(TOS), EU2(TOS), EEP(TOS) [well I think he is the ‘Vitelli’ in the game]
I don’t have much on him. He led the Florentine armies against Pisa. The Ten of War (the council of the republic) felt he was not prosecuting the war with adequate energy, and charged him with treason. (This is recounted by Machiavelli, although I haven’t read it in a while). He was executed, earning Florence the undying hatred of his brother Vitellozzo Vitelli. Paolo Vitelli was also famous for cutting off the hands and plucking out the eyes of enemies captured armed with the arquebus. Which did nothing to stop the adoption of the weapon.
Ineffective commander in chief. I say dump him.

Vzzo. Vitelli
Vitellozzo Vitelli
Present in IU(TOS,PAP) [unless he’s the Vitelli in the default TOS leader file]
He began his career serving Florence against Pisa, though I don’t think he was in command. He served with the French in Apulia in 1496 (the remnants of Charles VIII expedition) and after they were defeated entered the service of the Orsini. In 1496 Vitellozzo Vitelli raised an army from Papal fiefs who felt threatened by the pope’s attack on the Orsini. He then marched to raise the Duke of Gandia’s siege of Bracciano, and was met on the way by the papal army. On January 25 1497 at the battle of Soriano (an ominous name if I’ve ever heard one), Vitelli outflanked the papal army and destroyed it, injuring Gandia and capturing GB Montefeltro, his lieutenant along with all the baggage.
By 1500 he was in Cesare Borgia’s service. From June to September 1501 along with GP Baglioni he led the (successful) siege of Piombino for Borgia.
On the 18 June 1502 he defeated GP Baglioni, F Orsini, and P Petrucci outside Arezzo and took that city. In August the king of France forced him to return it to Florence.
In October of that year, as Borgia moved on Bologna he was one of many of Cesare’s generals who conspired against him, and then fought him in battle.
I’m pretty sure he was present when the rebels meet Ugo Moncada and Michele Coriglia and beat them. He reconciled with Borgia by the end of October.
On 31 December 1502 he entered Fano with Borgia, but was seized and executed.
Could be kept, as he was an innovater (developed sword and shield infantry to defeat halberdiers). If we are keeping one of Borgia’s lieutenants he’s the one for me.

edit: I added Fieramosca and Ordelaffi, but couldn't add the rest due to (incorrect) character limits.
 
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