Ad Astra! ... an Aurora Forum Game, run by blue emu

[blue emu]

Besides refiting our current ships or sending them into danger to be potentially blasted into smithereens... what are our options for dealing with these vessels?

Is it possible to, say, strip them of useful components and then wreck them into useful elements for our next run of warships?

I am of course not saying that we should engage in such activities except in the most obsolete cases, I just want to know if its possible to retain some of the mineral investment if we decide not to refit.

We can break them up for minerals and components... although most of the components such as engines, sensors, fire control and jump drives are already obsolete; those components can again be broken down for minerals.

Or we could keep them for patrolling low-threat areas... the drawback to this idea is that an obsolete fleet consumes nearly as many minerals per year for maintenance as a modern fleet.

Or we could keep them and use them in combat to bulk-out our main, modern fleet... which risks losing both the ships and the crews, of course, since they areen't as combat-worthy as our modern ships.

Or we could extensively refit them, to bring them up to modern standards. An expensive proposition, but when complete, we have a modern fleet with experienced crews, since the years of crew-training are not lost.

Here's a modern version of the Battle class Heavy Cruiser:

Battle II class Heavy Cruiser 15,000 tons 1566 Crew 3425 BP TCS 300 TH 924 EM 450
6160 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 4-54 Shields 15-250 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 16 PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 112% IFR: 1.6% Maint Capacity 2283 MSP Max Repair 625 MSP Est Time: 2.08 Years
Magazine 266

J15000(3-50) 2045 Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Magneto-plasma Drive E7.7 (22) Power 84 Fuel Use 77% Signature 42 Armour 0 Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres Range 85.7 billion km (161 days at full power)
Delta R250/17.5 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 105 Litres per day

CIWS-200 (1x6) Range 1000 km TS: 20000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Size 6 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 6 Rate of Fire 45
Missile Fire Control 2045 FC45-R100 (70%) (1) Range 45.4m km Resolution 100
Missile PD Fire Control 2039 FC10-R1 (70%) (2) Range 10.1m km Resolution 1
Size 6e 2043 ASM (36) Speed: 30,700 km/s End: 23.3m Range: 42.9m km WH: 9 Size: 6 TH: 204 / 122 / 61
Size 1e 2043 AMM (50) Speed: 48,200 km/s End: 3.5m Range: 10.3m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 305 / 183 / 91

Active Search Sensor 2039 MR10-R1 (70%) (1) GPS 126 Range 10.1m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor 2039 MR42-R100 (70%) (1) GPS 5250 Range 42.0m km Resolution 100

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

... and the current (old) version for comparison:

Battle class Heavy Cruiser 15,000 tons 1491 Crew 2890.1 BP TCS 300 TH 600 EM 360
4000 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 3-54 Shields 12-300 Sensors 18/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 17 PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 105% IFR: 1.5% Maint Capacity 2047 MSP Max Repair 900 MSP Est Time: 1.57 Years
Magazine 254

J15000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 (20) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 30 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres Range 60.0 billion km (173 days at full power)
Gamma R300/16 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 96 Litres per day

CIWS-120 (1x2) Range 1000 km TS: 12000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Size 4 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC6-R1 (2) Range 6.5m km Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC21-R100 (1) Range 21.6m km Resolution 100
Size 1e 2043 AMM (60) Speed: 48,200 km/s End: 3.5m Range: 10.3m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 305 / 183 / 91
Size 4e 2043 ASM (48) Speed: 38,000 km/s End: 11m Range: 25.1m km WH: 5 Size: 4 TH: 266 / 159 / 79

Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1) GPS 108 Range 6.5m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR28-R100 (1) GPS 4800 Range 28.8m km Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1) Sensitivity 18 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 18m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 

[blue emu]

As you can see, the new model is more than 50% faster, with a 40% longer cruising range, double the fire-control range, 67% longer PD range, a much improved CIWS, 33% thicker armor, 45% longer sensor range, 25% stronger shields (which regenerate somewhat faster as well), and carries a heavier main armament capable of penetrating three layers of armor instead of two, stripping 9 armor per hit instead of 5, and delivering an average damage of 5.4 per shot against a 10,000 kps target instead of 4 per shot.

... all on the same 15,000 ton displacement.

 

[fnt]

Is there a reason why the Battle II design is 560 km/s faster than the Attitude III or Storm design?
Perhaps you can remove 1-2 engines and add fuel or missle storage capacity.

 

[blue emu]

Is there a reason why the Battle II design is 560 km/s faster than the Attitude III or Storm design?
Perhaps you can remove 1-2 engines and add fuel or missle storage capacity.

Like this?

Battle II class Heavy Cruiser 15,000 tons 1551 Crew 3375 BP TCS 300 TH 840 EM 450
5600 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 4-54 Shields 15-250 Sensors 1/16/0/0 Damage Control Rating 17 PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 105% IFR: 1.5% Maint Capacity 2391 MSP Max Repair 625 MSP Est Time: 2.2 Years
Magazine 330

J15000(3-50) 2045 Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 15000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Magneto-plasma Drive E7.7 (20) Power 84 Fuel Use 77% Signature 42 Armour 0 Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres Range 109.1 billion km (225 days at full power)
Delta R250/17.5 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 105 Litres per day

CIWS-200 (1x6) Range 1000 km TS: 20000 km/s ROF 5 Base 50% To Hit
Size 1 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Size 6 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 6 Rate of Fire 45
Missile Fire Control 2045 FC45-R100 (70%) (1) Range 45.4m km Resolution 100
Missile PD Fire Control 2039 FC10-R1 (70%) (2) Range 10.1m km Resolution 1
Size 6e 2043 ASM (42) Speed: 30,700 km/s End: 23.3m Range: 42.9m km WH: 9 Size: 6 TH: 204 / 122 / 61
Size 1e 2043 AMM (78) Speed: 48,200 km/s End: 3.5m Range: 10.3m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 305 / 183 / 91

Active Search Sensor 2039 MR42-R100 (70%) (1) GPS 5250 Range 42.0m km Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor 2039 MR10-R1 (70%) (1) GPS 126 Range 10.1m km Resolution 1
EM Detection Sensor EM2-16 (1) Sensitivity 16 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 16m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Added an EM sensor as well, to detect enemy pings.

 

[blue emu]

We have recovered three Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drives from the wreckage of one of the Prix ships. Dismantling these components on Earth might give us clues to duplicating the fantasically high speed that the Prix ships display.

EDIT:

Another research lab... and a free tech: Cloaking Theory!

 

[Jos de trol]

If we have good and fast enough scouts/spy ships I'd check out if there are any systems with a weak Prix presence to send the current fleet to mop up, if possible after a relatively small refit. I'd definately not keep the old ships around concurrently with a new fleet (they'd at least need a major refit then and that would delay the actual new ships), unless there are any immediate threats that warrant the continued maintenance of an obsolete fleet.

So basically I suggest getting as much mileage as possible out of the current generation of ships, but of course without sending them on missions that result in certain death for their valiant crews. If there are any Prix systems we know we can take right now then we can do so while building the new generation. Then as the new shiny fleet is finished the old ships can be decomissioned for minerals or brought in for a major refit if that can still bring them up to standards.

what type of ships do you think these cowardly prix vessels were btw? any news on that?

 

[blue emu]

If we have good and fast enough scouts/spy ships I'd check out if there are any systems with a weak Prix presence to send the current fleet to mop up, if possible after a relatively small refit. I'd definately not keep the old ships around concurrently with a new fleet (they'd at least need a major refit then and that would delay the actual new ships), unless there are any immediate threats that warrant the continued maintenance of an obsolete fleet.

So basically I suggest getting as much mileage as possible out of the current generation of ships, but of course without sending them on missions that result in certain death for their valiant crews. If there are any Prix systems we know we can take right now then we can do so while building the new generation. Then as the new shiny fleet is finished the old ships can be decomissioned for minerals or brought in for a major refit if that can still bring them up to standards.

what type of ships do you think these cowardly prix vessels were btw? any news on that?

These appeared to be civilian or logistical designs.

One reason that I would LIKE to fully refit the old ships up to modern standards is Crew Training. Many of our older ships are at or near 100% Crew Training... they have crack, professional crews, who repond to orders quickly in combat and gain a to-Hit bonus with their missile attacks. If we dismantle the ships and build new ones, the crews are disbanded and we have to start training the new crews from zero.

It only seems sensible to me that... if we can afford it... our best crews should be given the best ships we can build.

 

[Jos de trol]

yes that is very sensible. At some point though I I assume their hardware will be too outdated to even be refitted (like ships in real life?) so there will be a continual need to build new ships?

 

[blue emu]

yes that is very sensible. At some point though I I assume their hardware will be too outdated to even be refitted (like ships in real life?) so there will be a continual need to build new ships?

Each FULL refit will basically strip them down to a skeleton and rebuild them... but without disbanding the crew. In fact, the crew is just about the only thing that isn't dismantled and replaced, since I'm even planning to strip off all the Duranium armor and replace it with Ceramic Composite.

... so we end up with a completely new vessel, but still crewed by the original naval crew. Of course, this is extremely expensive and time consuming... roughly equivalent to building a new ship from scratch. But we keep the crew bonus.

We will certainly be building more ships... there is no need for every ship to carry a jump drive, for example, so we can build Heavy and Light Cruisers with no jump drive, and pair them with the existing jump-capable ships. With no need to carry a massive jump drive, they can carry more armor and weapons instead.

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

yes that is very sensible. At some point though I I assume their hardware will be too outdated to even be refitted (like ships in real life?) so there will be a continual need to build new ships?

I don't think the game tracks the whole history of the ships, so that point would only be when the ships are so different from what we want their new versions to be that they're entirely different. The game doesn't know they're twenty year old ships that originally had nuclear pulse engines, but it does know if you're trying to double the tonnage and change to beams.

 

[Nabobalis]

Build a new fleet and then while the new fleet trains for a year we keep the old fleet in operation and then scarp for minerals.

 

[Dewirix]

Yes, but there are several FACs available, as well as one Storm class Gauss PD vessel, the Monitor, and three Ammunition Tenders (including the Bounty!).

One of the Storm classes sounds like fun. Have you used 'Tempest' as a name yet?

 

[blue emu]

Build a new fleet and then while the new fleet trains for a year we keep the old fleet in operation and then scarp for minerals.

A year's worth of training won't bring them up to the standards of a crew that has 20-year veterans in it. Naturally I can build some new ships first... but unless someone talks me out of it, I intend to fully refit our old ships rather than scrap them. That crew training bonus is too useful to simply throw away.

 

[blue emu]

One of the Storm classes sounds like fun. Have you used 'Tempest' as a name yet?

We used to have an ESN Tempest, but it got renamed to ESN Partly Cloudy With A Thirty Percent Chance OF Rain, which everyone seemed to feel was a much more imposing name.

Did you want me to rename the last available Storm (until the next four are finished) from ESN Typhoon to ESN Tempest, and give it to you?

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

Keep it, and look to build a second fleet in future so that only one fleet ever needs to be in dry dock.

 

[blue emu]

Keep it, and look to build a second fleet in future so that only one fleet ever needs to be in dry dock.

I'm thinking of building a bunch of non-jump ships, to "dilute" our existing fleet into two fleets.

 

[Dewirix]

We used to have an ESN Tempest, but it got renamed to ESN Partly Cloudy With A Thirty Percent Chance OF Rain, which everyone seemed to feel was a much more imposing name.

Did you want me to rename the last available Storm (until the next four are finished) from ESN Typhoon to ESN Tempest, and give it to you?

Actually, Typhoon's a perfectly good name too. I'll take it!

In relation to the refit versus new build debate, I agree with your analysis on the importance of keeping the crews together.

 

[Quift]

I agree both with the switch to size 6 missiles, and the refitting to keep our crews in top shape.

I would very much like to see a proposal for a new carrier, as well as for the more offensive ships. The Battle class is mostly to serve as the military tug (with some nice wepaons etc on top), while our destroyers, light cruisers and carriers are the main weapons platform.

And I really think that our last excursions really showed the advantage of really fast, small weapons systems to attack targets from close up, with quick and deadly salvoes. Size 6 missiles on top of them and they are rocking!

 

[Capt. Kiwi]

I'm thinking of building a bunch of non-jump ships, to "dilute" our existing fleet into two fleets.

Then we'll get the current fleet up to magneto-plasma standards, dilute it into two, and in future refit one when we get to internal confinement fusion, the other when we get to magnetic confinement, and the first again when we get to inertial confinement fusion etc. Obviously the plan can be adopted to meet changing situations, but it will give us one active fleet all the time and two a lot of the time, and never more than one tech behind.

Though we could probably hit another Prix system before refits, to give our salvagers and engineers something to do - depending how long El Dorado is predicted to take to finish.

 

[blue emu]

Actually, Typhoon's a perfectly good name too. I'll take it!

Commander Dewirix has been promoted to Captain and placed in command of the Storm class Gauss Point Defense Frigate ESN Typhoon.