ACW turns into Great War

[unmerged(25206)]

A great ahistorical mod, would be having the ACW turn into a world war.
Britain and France historically both considered joining in on the side of the confederacy, but decided against it.

Lets say they decided to intervene because of the shortage of cotton caused by the war. Russia is still realling from its defeat in the crimea and feels its losing the great game, between it and britain. Russia see's this as an oppertunity to get back at briatin by siding with the union. Afghanistan should then get an event asking it to side with either russia or Britain to help one invade the other. This is because afghanistan was always getting involved in the great game. France only real interest in enterent the acw was tyo have a base and ally to help in its conquets of mexico (which in a sense would happen without intervention anyway). Mexio gets a large shipment of guns and volenteers form the usa and russia and joins there allience.

This makes the war:
Britain, France, CSA V Russia, USA, Mexico
Afghanistan will join one or the other

Other potential nations to get involved later in the war could be: Ottoman Empire, to settle its rivalry with Russia. China, to take revenge on Britain for the opiom wars. Brazil, maybe a little too far fetched, but maybe it could join with the CSA because it reconises the need to not be the only western nation to not have abolished slavery.

If all those nations included it would be:
Britain, France, CSA, Brazil, Ottoman Empire V Russia, USA, China, Mexico
afghanistan will; join one or the other

 

[Shogun 144]

sounds interesting Rajj

 

[Theodotus1]

A great ahistorical mod, would be having the ACW turn into a world war.
Britain and France historically both considered joining in on the side of the confederacy, but decided against it.

Lets say they decided to intervene because of the shortage of cotton caused by the war. Russia is still realling from its defeat in the crimea and feels its losing the great game, between it and britain. Russia see's this as an oppertunity to get back at briatin by siding with the union. Afghanistan should then get an event asking it to side with either russia or Britain to help one invade the other. This is because afghanistan was always getting involved in the great game. France only real interest in enterent the acw was tyo have a base and ally to help in its conquets of mexico (which in a sense would happen without intervention anyway). Mexio gets a large shipment of guns and volenteers form the usa and russia and joins there allience.

This makes the war:
Britain, France, CSA V Russia, USA, Mexico
Afghanistan will join one or the other

Other potential nations to get involved later in the war could be: Ottoman Empire, to settle its rivalry with Russia. China, to take revenge on Britain for the opiom wars. Brazil, maybe a little too far fetched, but maybe it could join with the CSA because it reconises the need to not be the only western nation to not have abolished slavery.

If all those nations included it would be:
Britain, France, CSA, Brazil, Ottoman Empire V Russia, USA, China, Mexico
afghanistan will; join one or the other

The idea that Britain and France would even formally recognize a slaveholding CSA, much less actaully ally with it, was really just a southern fantasy. Neither country needed cotton so badly as to be formally connected to a slaveholding country, especially not Britain.

Britain might conceivably have ended up in some form of war against the U.S. if the Trent Affair had gone very badly. But that still wouldn't have made Britain likely to formally join in any undertaking with a slave state.

 

[unmerged(6828)]

Actually, had the cotton glut of 1863 not occurred, britain and france prolly would have joined the war or at least sent subsidies - britain hated the us over the trent affair and lincoln's overall lack of tact to the europeans. On the other hand, had a world war occurred, Brazil prolly wouldn't have joined due to the War of the Triple Alliance, but if it did it'd support the union
becuase Dom Pedro II, the emperor, was in favor of the abolishment of slavery along with the whole gov't (it happened progressively) and DEFINATELY joined the union.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

is anyone interested in modding this, I cant, but I can do a great deal of research.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

Actually, had the cotton glut of 1863 not occurred, britain and france prolly would have joined the war or at least sent subsidies - britain hated the us over the trent affair and lincoln's overall lack of tact to the europeans. On the other hand, had a world war occurred, Brazil prolly wouldn't have joined due to the War of the Triple Alliance, but if it did it'd support the union
becuase Dom Pedro II, the emperor, was in favor of the abolishment of slavery along with the whole gov't (it happened progressively) and DEFINATELY joined the union.

Brazil was jsut an Idea I had to swell the ranks of that allience, can you think of any othe rnation that might get involved. It doesnt matter if its a little far fetched as this never really happened anyway, of course I do think it should be at the very least, feasable.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

Well, I think this is a little too far-fetched, but...

Prussia would have joined with the Union, to counter France and the Turks would have been dragged in to fight Russia. Austria would be in its best interests to align with Prussia, but could also stand to gain from defeating Prussia. Spain's war effort would probably not matter, but would probably go with France. The Benelux countries would probably remain neutral, but would certainly not align with the Confederacy.

But truthfully, there is no way that Britain would have gone to war to support the CSA. Subsidies, maybe, but not open war. The same holds for France, but less so.

Steele

 

[unmerged(24379)]

Personally I believe this could end in a war between France and Britain. France I think, would side with the Union, and Britain would side with the Confederacy. Russia? Don't think they could get involved, unless Prussia, Austria or the Ottomans got involved somehow. Afghanistan?? You must be crazy :rofl:
Prussia and Austria might have allied and gotten involved in the war, but this is 1861, a few before they actually fought a war with eachother.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

Personally I believe this could end in a war between France and Britain. France I think, would side with the Union, and Britain would side with the Confederacy. Russia? Don't think they could get involved, unless Prussia, Austria or the Ottomans got involved somehow. Afghanistan?? You must be crazy :rofl:
Prussia and Austria might have allied and gotten involved in the war, but this is 1861, a few before they actually fought a war with eachother.

No way would France join the with the union, they were totally pro conferderacy and actually wanted to join the war, there main goal being tht a friendly american nation would not get involved in frances take over of mexico. NapoleanIII was packed up to go, but he was scared to go without British support. Afghanistan is possibility if russia joins the war as afghanistan was a area greatly contested by both britain and russia, britain was worried that russia would invade india through afghanistan, so britain was always trying to control afghanistan, thus making it pro russian.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

I dont think austria or prussia should be involved, they just had no connection whatsoever, really the only mildly feasible nations would be, USA, CSA, UK, France, Russia

 

[unmerged(11486)]

But if France, Britain, and Russia all get involved, Prussia and Austria are going to see their chances to gain from the situation. Remember, Prussia is working on becoming Germany, and to do so, France must be opposed. Austria is interested in expanding in the Balkans, where the Ottoman Empire is currently supported by Britain and, to a lesser extent, France.

Basically, if one goes, they all go. Furthermore, if Britain and France back the CSA, yet Russia alone backs the Union, then the US is effectively doomed. Even the industrial might and size of the Union and the huge population base of Russia couldn't hope to match the most powerful two nations on Earth.

Steele

 

[unmerged(6828)]

You could also tie this to the paraguayan war - brazil's support for the us leads paraguay to invade brazil a couple years earlier - (1861 instead of 1864) - thus joining them to the confederates and brazil and maybe argentina to the us

Furthermore, mexico would side with the union (juarez) while france and the confederates would support maximilian - thereby england would join the us because of balance of power, spain the confederates (holy alliance) and prussia austria and prussia could join. Therefore:

USA side:
USA
England
Mexico
Brazil
Argentina
Prussia?

CSA side:
CSA
France
Paraguay
Spain
Austria?

where'd Russia go?

 

[unmerged(21338)]

British where pretty mad at the US destroying the cotton industry, which for a while threatened their textiles. At the same time they disliked the way the Union conducted a war which they claimed was against their own people. On the same note they did not like Slavery and would not be to keen on seeing it expanding with their support. I doubt seriously that Britain would enter the war on either side, but might send supplies to the South if they prove themselves worthy of it on the field of battle. Napoleon III needed the confederates alive to create a balance of power in North America which would allow Habsburg Mexico stay in tact. With that said he would not enter the war before securing Mexico, and as such I think it is a little silly to say they would not be on his side. Especially if victory might have means getting some of their lost territory back. Maybe giving revolt events to represent the liberals in Mexico is best or even creating two Mexico's for the scenario might work. Russia was going through drastic changes at this time and could not have bothered with the outside world. Spain might have entered, but only on the confederates side. None of this works into a World War though only the US getting gang banged by every one she pissed off in her quest for expansion (Mexico & threats towards Spain) and destruction of trade (blockades during Civil War). Austria would not enter on the US side because it would mean attacking their Habsburg kin in Mexico, and Prussia was not ready to take on France especially without the help of the South Germans which they could not have got if they attacked France. No one had any reason to support the US at this time, and most had a reason not to. The only thing which screwed the South was their clinging to a bygone era which most of the world wanted to forget. Only the British would have thought about it, and they had to many reasons not to (what would they gain from the war anyways?)

 

[unmerged(25206)]

Fort the purposes of the scenario we could make events that cause a nation to lean in a certain direction, lets say the US accidntly blows up a passing britsih ship that just happens to have the prince of wales on it, when mistaking it for the enemy, thus public opinion in the Uk becomes pro confederacy.

Theres no need for it to be totally realistic, because realistically briatin and france did not join the war so we must think of ways that they could, what if confederacy does better in the fighting and so britain and france feel their unlikely to lose.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Fort the purposes of the scenario we could make events that cause a nation to lean in a certain direction, lets say the US accidntly blows up a passing britsih ship that just happens to have the prince of wales on it, when mistaking it for the enemy, thus public opinion in the Uk becomes pro confederacy.

Theres no need for it to be totally realistic, because realistically briatin and france did not join the war so we must think of ways that they could, what if confederacy does better in the fighting and so britain and france feel their unlikely to lose.

Open up the 61 scenario. Change the playable countries to minors except for USA. Load up USA. Use f12 and Neville cheat to set up allinces. Save and reload game by changing one of the minors to major (Uk, CSA etc) and use Neville cheat to set up these alliances. Work through the countries. Save game.


Enjoy

 

[unmerged(11486)]

Aww, but that's the easy way out.

Probably much better than any other means.

Steele

 

[pimparel]

Brazil would NEVER meddle with affairs outside of our sphere of influence, I mean S.America, in specific La Plata Region. The argument about slavery is so thin that I can't even think about, and there was another priorities, like impose our Power against Argentina and the Paraguayan, who led by a crazy dictador led the country into war against Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.

So if you want to lead the ACW into a WW0, its ok, but don't put ANY S.American country in it.

BTW, no country in S.America, including Brazil, could wage a war outside S.America, to tell the truth none could wage a war down here, either. The war lead all countries involved in the Triple Alliance War, and the Pacific War into the depts of financial chaos.

 

[unmerged(25206)]

thx pimparel I'll remember that

 

[unmerged(17893)]

There is actually an AH scenario about this subject.I just cant find it yet,but I will post link to that page as soon as I find it...

Here! Found it

http://users.metro2000.net/~stabbott/AHatlanticwar.html

 

[unmerged(2377)]

Sounds like an awsome idea for a scenario.