ACW is a joke in Victoria...

[unmerged(25612)]

Speaking that if you start a GC and wait until 1860-61.

I played a minor in Europe with VIP mod, affected the situation in no way. USA had done rather nicely, taken a land connection to Russian Alaska by trade and all...

ACW kicks in, I have fog of war off, so I don`t know excactly what happens, but here are somethings I took of the ledger:

Armies at start:

USA 74 divs
CSA 5 divs

Armies after some events, and US mobilization:

USA 107
CSA 9

Needles to say that CSA could do absolutely nothing about the Yanks pushing through. The war ended having lasted only for some 7 months!!!

CSA never had a single ship during the whole war, not one!


And it is not that this was the first time this happened. I have seen it a million times over. CSA just does not have enough time, enough resources or maybe enough events to build up.


Why does this happen?

1.USA has a mobilization pool pre-war CSA does not.
2.CSA recieves only all of the Dixie divisions, all 1 to 4 of them...

Fixes:

1.There should be an event command of "emptypool" which would empty the mobilization pool of a country. This kind of a command could be used at the outburst of the civil war. (After all some of the to be mobilized troops are Dixies!!). This way if half of your standing army defects to the South, you wont be able to after six months kick in those sweet 50 divisions to take it all back. (The same event could be used for other scenarios of a civil war. For example if some modder makes Mexican civil war an actual civil war instead of rebels here and there)

2.This one is mainly for VIP, I suppose, but maybe demobilize some Yank armies to represent the fact that some of the men you draft are actually Southerners. (You convert 5k Northerns and 5k Southerns and make an army, and give it the nationality Yankee, does not make it 100% Yankee).

 

[aprof]

Speaking that if you start a GC and wait until 1860-61.

I played a minor in Europe with VIP mod, affected the situation in no way. USA had done rather nicely, taken a land connection to Russian Alaska by trade and all...

ACW kicks in, I have fog of war off, so I don`t know excactly what happens, but here are somethings I took of the ledger:

Armies at start:

USA 74 divs
CSA 5 divs

Armies after some events, and US mobilization:

USA 107
CSA 9

Needles to say that CSA could do absolutely nothing about the Yanks pushing through. The war ended having lasted only for some 7 months!!!

CSA never had a single ship during the whole war, not one!

And it is not that this was the first time this happened. I have seen it a million times over. CSA just does not have enough time, enough resources or maybe enough events to build up.

Why does this happen?

1.USA has a mobilization pool pre-war CSA does not.
2.CSA recieves only all of the Dixie divisions, all 1 to 4 of them...

Fixes:

1.There should be an event command of "emptypool" which would empty the mobilization pool of a country. This kind of a command could be used at the outburst of the civil war. (After all some of the to be mobilized troops are Dixies!!). This way if half of your standing army defects to the South, you wont be able to after six months kick in those sweet 50 divisions to take it all back. (The same event could be used for other scenarios of a civil war. For example if some modder makes Mexican civil war an actual civil war instead of rebels here and there)

2.This one is mainly for VIP, I suppose, but maybe demobilize some Yank armies to represent the fact that some of the men you draft are actually Southerners. (You convert 5k Northerns and 5k Southerns and make an army, and give it the nationality Yankee, does not make it 100% Yankee).

A lot of this is changed in VIP v03. For one thing, Darkrenown discovered that the information for the add_division command command was incorrect. It isn't "when =" that tells where a division is to be placed, it is a "where =". This is fixed in the various events for the ACW and now the CSA will get perhaps 30 divisons if the usual Southern states all secede.

We have also incorporated some changes which will give the CSA some soldeir POPs.

Another problem with the South is that there are usually few or no factories to support the nation. As certain states secede, they will be granted a factory closely associated with historic Southern industry. Players can use the exploit where they refuse to build factories in the South all they want, the CSA will still have a modest industrial capacity.

There have been changes to the mob pool which may reduce the number of USA divisions which are available.

Wait for v03 and tell us if you still think the ACW isn't working right.

 

[iBaLkiD]

Wait for v03 and tell us if you still think the ACW isn't working right.

MMMmmm. VIP.03 MMMmmmm.

 

[Rosey Palmer]

A lot of this is changed in VIP v03. For one thing, Darkrenown discovered that the information for the add_division command command was incorrect. It isn't "when =" that tells where a division is to be placed, it is a "where =". This is fixed in the various events for the ACW and now the CSA will get perhaps 30 divisons if the usual Southern states all secede.

We have also incorporated some changes which will give the CSA some soldeir POPs.

Another problem with the South is that there are usually few or no factories to support the nation. As certain states secede, they will be granted a factory closely associated with historic Southern industry. Players can use the exploit where they refuse to build factories in the South all they want, the CSA will still have a modest industrial capacity.

There have been changes to the mob pool which may reduce the number of USA divisions which are available.

Wait for v03 and tell us if you still think the ACW isn't working right.

I think these changes sound great. I hope that the south recieves plenty of soldiers, because I think that is the biggest problem. I hope it doesn't get too much industry, however, because historically it really didn't have much.

The south should still have to import most of its industrial goods in exchange for cotton, since that what's happened historically. Combining this with a significant increase in soldiers should allow for a possible early southern victory, but lowered chances as the conflict drags on and the south teeters towards bankruptcy.

 

[aprof]

I think these changes sound great. I hope that the south recieves plenty of soldiers, because I think that is the biggest problem. I hope it doesn't get too much industry, however, because historically it really didn't have much.

Every state which secedes has a convert_pop_type command which turns a percentage of the farmers/ labourers into soldiers.

The south should still have to import most of its industrial goods in exchange for cotton, since that what's happened historically. Combining this with a significant increase in soldiers should allow for a possible early southern victory, but lowered chances as the conflict drags on and the south teeters towards bankruptcy.

The factories are all basic stuff and based on our test games is usually about a fourth that of the USA - which is right in line with the historical ratio. The limiting factor is often the craftsmen to staff the factories. The biggest single gain is Virginia, where Richmond gains a steel factory and some armaments factories representing the Tredegar Works. Among the rest of the states, only Alabama and South Carolina get two factories (as they might be the capital of the CSA if Virginia doesn't secede), and Texas which by its size deserves two - an ammo factory and a lumber mill. Otherwise any CSA state will only get one. And there are some states that can "go South" which won't get any as their industrial capacity in 1861 wasn't large enough to qualify (Florida, Oklahoma).

 

[Waffen9999]

Well the South was outgunned, outmanned, and out industrialized. In over all, the South was in a losing position from the start. They could kill the Northerner's sure but not at the rate they died themselves. But yes, having the South with a mere 5 to 7 divisions is a tad ludicrous

 

[unmerged(10416)]

the thing is, usually the US-Mexican war lasts almost forever and the USA go to quite some lengths to win it. Historically they fought and won with only 40,000 men or so, but in Vicky the vast size of Mexico and the province system force you to mobilize something like half a million men. (it's better in VIP 0.2b, because you don't need to spend months taking California and the deserts - they get the bear flag revolt and automatically join the USA.) So once the ACW rolls around, these half a million men roll over the rebels in no time.

 

[Waffen9999]

the thing is, usually the US-Mexican war lasts almost forever and the USA go to quite some lengths to win it. Historically they fought and won with only 40,000 men or so, but in Vicky the vast size of Mexico and the province system force you to mobilize something like half a million men. (it's better in VIP 0.2b, because you don't need to spend months taking California and the deserts - they get the bear flag revolt and automatically join the USA.) So once the ACW rolls around, these half a million men roll over the rebels in no time.

In VIP I believe they changed it so that the war ends if you take Mexico city. So you can do what we did historically. We landed on the coast and marched on in and that was basically it. Also in the game though the Mexican military tech is generally far superior which is kinda strange since American superiority in everything in the war enabled our meager army to steamroll the Mexicans.

 

[Rosey Palmer]

In VIP I believe they changed it so that the war ends if you take Mexico city. So you can do what we did historically. We landed on the coast and marched on in and that was basically it. Also in the game though the Mexican military tech is generally far superior which is kinda strange since American superiority in everything in the war enabled our meager army to steamroll the Mexicans.

Yes the superior Mexican tech is ridiculous.

I think it is there to prevent the USA ai from completely wiping out Mexico even more than it already does. I think the better solution would be for the ai USA not to desire Mexican territory south of the Rio Grande at all. And once the USA gains it's core territories it should guarentee the independence of Mexico.

In fact, the USA should guarantee the independence of many Central and South American countries. Whatever happened to the Monroe Doctrine?

 

[Waffen9999]

In fact, the USA should guarantee the independence of many Central and South American countries. Whatever happened to the Monroe Doctrine?

Well I've yet to see the Europeans even invade South or Central America with the exception of Mexico in it's event. Besides if the Monroe Doctinre existed in the game for the U.S. to follow it would be a great way to destroy the U.S.'s prestige if you were so much stronger than the U.S. and it starts dishonoring it's guarantees of independance.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

Yes the superior Mexican tech is ridiculous.

I think it is there to prevent the USA ai from completely wiping out Mexico even more than it already does. I think the better solution would be for the ai USA not to desire Mexican territory south of the Rio Grande at all. And once the USA gains it's core territories it should guarentee the independence of Mexico.

In fact, the USA should guarantee the independence of many Central and South American countries. Whatever happened to the Monroe Doctrine?

That would drag the USA into a lot of inter-American wars... there's no way to make guarantees only valid against non-American countries.

 

[aprof]

Yes the superior Mexican tech is ridiculous.

That's usually because the AI will research army techs and be one up on a human player in regards org and morale.

I think it is there to prevent the USA ai from completely wiping out Mexico even more than it already does. I think the better solution would be for the ai USA not to desire Mexican territory south of the Rio Grande at all. And once the USA gains it's core territories it should guarentee the independence of Mexico.

The USA doesn't have cores south of the Rio Grande, and after 1860 it will have events that shift USA policy to develop better relations with Mexico. Also, IIRC, pimparel has an AI shift for the USA to not be aggressive towards Mexico after 1860.

In fact, the USA should guarantee the independence of many Central and South American countries. Whatever happened to the Monroe Doctrine?

Again IIRC, the Monroe Doctrine says that Europeans don't have the right to interfere in the Western Hemisphere. It doesn't exclude the USA from taking an active hand in Central and South America.

 

[Darkrenown]

Yes the superior Mexican tech is ridiculous.

Because paradox gave mexico a zillion clerks. The mexican pops are being redone for 0.3.

 

[unmerged(31118)]

Easiest way, in my very limited exp, to recreate victory in Mexican war is to try to satellite Mexico. Racking up the necessary war score can be done by occupying Mexico city and other imp. provinces. Bad part is that the one time I did it this way, I had to let them break loose or fight France and Britain when they intervened.

I seem to remember there's a Guadaloupe-Hidalgo treaty event, even in Vanilla. What are the prereqs for that? I don't recall.

 

[Theodotus1]

Easiest way, in my very limited exp, to recreate victory in Mexican war is to try to satellite Mexico. Racking up the necessary war score can be done by occupying Mexico city and other imp. provinces. Bad part is that the one time I did it this way, I had to let them break loose or fight France and Britain when they intervened.

I seem to remember there's a Guadaloupe-Hidalgo treaty event, even in Vanilla. What are the prereqs for that? I don't recall.

If I recall correctly, treaty of G-H in VIP requires control of 15% of Mexican territory and capture of Mexico City. (Then USA can offer the treaty, and Mexico has the option to accept or keep fighting.) There are also events which transfer California and Utah to USA at the start of the war. (In 0.3 these events are changed to only transfer control, not ownership as in 0.2b -- we do listen to player comments and complaints.) There are also many other Mexican events in VIP which simulate the history of the Mex-Am War period. In my hands-off tests the results have usually been roughly historical. (Though of course a player USA or player Mexico can do better than history.)

 

[Darkrenown]

. In my hands-off tests the results have usually been roughly historical.

Most of the time Although in my current game the Mexicans have held off the USA in 3 wars so far.

 

[Theodotus1]

Most of the time Although in my current game the Mexicans have held off the USA in 3 wars so war.

Viva Mejico!