Achievements Without Ironman

[Chip Block]

I will always play ironman/unmodded

an excellent way to never get the best out of any paradox game

 

[SeraphAscending]

an excellent way to never get the best out of any paradox game

i would get if you would make that point about "unmodded", but how does not using iron man get in the way of that?

 

[Chip Block]

i would get if you would make that point about "unmodded", but how does not using iron man get in the way of that?

he said ironman/unmodded, and i was referring to unmodded, which is part of that combo

 

[cavveman]

I could see removing ironman, but only if there's a check for the game being in debug mode or mods being enabled. Being able to achieve with a few strategic save points so you can try different tactics is good, being able to console command yourself achievements is not.

There are tools that allows for iron man locked save files usage of console command. So I completely agree with you that iron man can be removed.
But mods should still be allowed for achievements.
Currently some mods don't affect the gameplay, only the UI is affected for the better. And achievements are disabled anyway. Those types of mods aren't for cheating.
We should be allowed to use mods that only affects UI without removing achievement possibility.

The game should be able to differentiate mod from mod. It could just look at which path the mod is affecting.

 

[Torredebelem]

Its annoying, I like hunting achievements nowadays, but Its silly you cant use mods.
Results in almost nobody goes for it.
Until death do us part (Marry another character), the achievement most players have, global statistic 33% got this.

This only proves that achievements as a game mechanic is overrated in its importance. Only a small minority of players truly go achievement hunting. This is not a judgement about how anyone plays the game, is just factual evidence based on the low percentages of many easy achievements attainable.

As for the overall discussion whether achievements should be tied to Ironman and unmodded games, I am all for freedom. Everyone should be able to experience achievements, no matter how she/he plays the game.

 

[Dagda]

That'd make achievements worthless (especially for EU4)

There would be zero difference in their worth considering people can unlock achievements without even playing the game.

I only play EU4 in ironman for the achievements, thats the only motive for me to pick different nations with higher difficulty and try to min-max and cheese my way through them, I get a great sense of.. achievement (pun intended) when I unlock some of the hard achievements and showcase them on my Steam's profile and boast about them with peers.

You must be fun at parties.

But nothing about such a change would stop you from being a braggart to your friends about how you 360 no-scoped the Byzantines with your eyes closed whilst playing with the Ironman checkbox enabled. I'm sure your peers will still be impressed if they believe you to be honest.

 

[Toleora]

I like playing Ironman and going for achievements but I couldn't care less if someone else got this same achievement with cheats/mods/without ironman.

It's not a multiplayer game so everyone should play the game as they like and I support this. They should remove the restriction.

 

[tsr-aph]

The main reason i use iron man for is because it cuts down on save files that i am never going to load up again, but also won't expend the effort of deleting. Even with mods. I'm probably in the minority with that, because it's not a particularly convenient or effective thing to do.

This entirely. It's also nice to have the game save when you leave automatically.
TBH, the main reason I use Ironman is that I like knowing that I can't cheat. Sure I can always play the game again, but if I genuinely mess up, I will pay for it. It's why I Ironman whilst still being heavily modded

 

[Nevars]

Just remove both ironman and achievement altogether.

They are meaningless anyway.

 

[Fou Lu]

Just remove both ironman and achievement altogether.

They are meaningless anyway.

What is meaningless to you is not meaningless to others and removing stuff is always a bad idea.
It also seems you dont get the point of ironman.

 

[SeraphAscending]

Just remove both ironman and achievement altogether.

They are meaningless anyway.

When they are meaningless, they don't do harm, either, now do they?

 

[zorkman]

Just remove both ironman and achievement altogether.

They are meaningless anyway.

There is nothing wrong with either Ironman or achievements, both of which I do. What is wrong is forcing people to play a certain way to obtain them. I am all for the changes.

 

[56297:SinZinDetta]

I understand Ironman is important for achievements to be valuable. But the Ironman mode is just so random it is frustrating. I get life is that way but when the possible outcome is 10% wounded, and you get wounded and gout.... >____>

 

[Torredebelem]

I understand Ironman is important for achievements to be valuable. But the Ironman mode is just so random it is frustrating. I get life is that way but when the possible outcome is 10% wounded, and you get wounded and gout.... >____>

Well, at a certain level the game tries to simulate the serendipity of life tempered by your own decisions, so I am very ok with the randomness introduced as it furthers the emergent narrative and marvel, not only at the instances I was wounded with 10% chances, but also at the instances I am downright killed with the same 10% chances due for instance to my high Dread or Tyranny or low Popular Opinion (among others) generating a murder attempt - this in my modded game, those events are not available in vanilla.

 

[grommile]

That'd make achievements worthless (especially for EU4)

We've literally just had this discussion on the Vic3 forums.

If you look at other long-form strategy games that do not enforce "ironman, no mods" in their achievements, you find that the "trivial" achievements (things like "complete the tutorial" or "sign a treaty") have very high completion rates and the "sadistically hard" achievements have very low completion rates.

The reasonable conjecture is that most people either (a) care too much about achievements to get them by cheating, because they don't mean anything if you cheated or (b) care too little about achievements to get them by cheating, because they don't mean anything so why bother cheating to get them?

Besides, Steam Achievement Manager exists.

 

[heliostellar]

I hope they do this with all Paradox games. There are so many QoL mods that don't actually affect gameplay that we could then use without breaking achievements.

 

[Kelemeth]

I love the idea of going for achievements to guide picking interesting challenges, but the possibility of bugs or having to complete the run before updating to the cool new version puts me off even starting them.

I would like this change for CK3 and all Paradox games.

 

[Blodhevn]

An achievement is supposed to showcase your ability to pull off a difficult undertaking. It's not meant to be a freebie.

On another note, by allowing it in non-ironman, it might be that we could get achievements in MP games.

there is no reason to argue. its the consolation prize era.

 

[grommile]

there is no reason to argue. its the consolation prize era.

It's the era of recognizing...

... that Steam Achievement Manager exists and Paradox don't use Valve Anti-Cheat

... that the ironman requirement was never as effective as its proponents act like it was. (It didn't even prevent savescumming, only make it mildly inconvenient.)

... that sadistically hard achievements have very low completion rates even in turn-based strategy games that allow them to be earned with mods and savescumming.

... that being good at a video game is pretty meaningless to anyone except yourself.

 

[klopkr]

If the mods that were achievement compatible made any sense I wouldn't care, but as it is I can't get mods adding actual historical outfits, backgrounds, and basic fixes.

I would never turn off certain flavour pack mods EVER if achievements were compatible.

Now that the dam is broken it just feels like an annoying restriction that only exists to catch a certain group of lazy cheaters.

Plus if you fulfill certain achievements like marrying someone in a total conversion mod it isn't exactly that different than vanilla.