How do you guys feel about this change?Personally I think it kills the whole idea of "achievements".
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Achievements being compatible with mods
- Thread starter MST2003
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Whats the point of ironman now? Why struggle to get harder achievements? Why buy event pack DLC just install free mods?
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Should you be interested, there's (more or less) 26 pages of discussion on this exact topic over in the Victoria 3 forums, in the dev diary on achievements from last summer: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-55-achievements.1538861/. It may provide some insights.
Edit: although, to paraphrase it very very briefly:
- on the one hand, some people think this devaluates achievements since nothing prohibits you from "cheating" to get them
- on the other hand, some (I'd say most) people think that is irrelevant since nothing prohibits you personally from still only playing ironman mode for your achievements and getting them "the hard way"
I suppose it boils down to you whether you consider achievements as personal goals or as a competition with other players. The majority of replies over there was in the former camp (i.e., in favour of allowing non-ironman and mods for unlocking achievements).
Edit: although, to paraphrase it very very briefly:
- on the one hand, some people think this devaluates achievements since nothing prohibits you from "cheating" to get them
- on the other hand, some (I'd say most) people think that is irrelevant since nothing prohibits you personally from still only playing ironman mode for your achievements and getting them "the hard way"
I suppose it boils down to you whether you consider achievements as personal goals or as a competition with other players. The majority of replies over there was in the former camp (i.e., in favour of allowing non-ironman and mods for unlocking achievements).
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I consider achievements as just encouragement to play different ways rather than any real bragging rights, so I think it is a pretty nice change. It was way too restrictive before with what mods could be used, and I've never really understood the hatred of "save scumming."
Plus, it isn't like it was impossible to get around before. The large majority (at least on Steam) just didn't ever bother, even for the easy achievements.
I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over how others play their own game.
Plus, it isn't like it was impossible to get around before. The large majority (at least on Steam) just didn't ever bother, even for the easy achievements.
I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over how others play their own game.
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I wonder if this is an engine difference with the newer engine CK3/Vic3 run on? In that there's been talk about how this will allow folks who have UI/UX mods to gain achievements, but previous generations (well, EUIV at least) still allowed achievements with UI mods as they didn't modify the checksum for game integrity. Maybe the newer engine verifies checksum's at a different place or that UI mods modify part of the game on newer games that they didn't on previous versions?
I don't have strong opinions, I'd probably prefer they keep to ironman only, but also, I personally can't imagine playing a paradox game without ironman so I'm not really someone impacted by this. And I suppose for majority of CK3's player base (based on Steam % of folks who have even gotten the marriage achievement), it will open up the ability for them to get achievements.
However I don't think achievements should be compatible with mods that modify the map (ASOIAF, Elder Kings, etc.) but dunno if this change does allow those to get achievements or not
I don't have strong opinions, I'd probably prefer they keep to ironman only, but also, I personally can't imagine playing a paradox game without ironman so I'm not really someone impacted by this. And I suppose for majority of CK3's player base (based on Steam % of folks who have even gotten the marriage achievement), it will open up the ability for them to get achievements.
However I don't think achievements should be compatible with mods that modify the map (ASOIAF, Elder Kings, etc.) but dunno if this change does allow those to get achievements or not
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I don't see how it kills the idea of achievements. They're just suggestions of goals for the player to accomplish if they want to. They still exist as that.
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There is.
Modding, particularly on the UI side, is far more potent on Jomini which is why it breaks checksum now.
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I agree, the achievements now feel like the CSGO achievements that you can instantly unlock with workshop maps, in other words: they lost all the value.
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I think it's great. You can play the game the way you want to. Lots of mods, like VIET, RICE, CFP, and EPE enrich the game without interfering with achievement goals.
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I like it. I don't think that many people use mods to cheat anyway, so this is an improvement. It's not like overhaul mods or mods for increased historical accuracy are easier than the base game.
Of course, I was hardly ever playing in Ironman anyway.
Of course, I was hardly ever playing in Ironman anyway.
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Achievements aren't necessarily as hard as they seem. Many of them already have exploits or tricks to get them. Especially in other games like Stellaris where you can change the map generation.
And locking out mods in general is just bad. Many of them are just UI or graphical mods. Or tiny tweaks that don't change much, but are nice to have. Or bug fixes.
And locking out mods in general is just bad. Many of them are just UI or graphical mods. Or tiny tweaks that don't change much, but are nice to have. Or bug fixes.
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To be locked to one save file so savescumming is more of a hassle, same as before.
Because you want to do the achievement, same as before.
I really don't understand how people think it kills achievements, I really really don't. Even if we ignore the existence of Steam Achievement Manager.
I already said this in the other thread, but there's actual hard evidence from other games that seems to show that hardcore achievement cheating is not rampant even in games where it's very easy. It does not appear to disrupt Steam completion percentages (which should actually get more meaningful now that they won't be stuck low on every achievement). Maybe a few people get some undeserved upvotes on Reddit, but so what. You will still be able to show off your achievement wall to your friends, and I would hope they have enough faith in you to trust the legitimacy. You will still be able to get the personal satisfaction of completing them, and ironman still exists if you have low self control.
Can someone please explain why a small number of people cheating achievements actually materially impacts how you feel about achievements?
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In the Jomini version of the engine (Imperator onward) you can script game effects directly in UI scripts. In pre-Jomini games you couldn't, I think you had to add the button alone in UI script and then the effect of the button elsewhere. So if UI mods didn't change checksum you could cheat in multiplayer (say, a button which gives free gold whenever you want) without the other players knowing.
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In regards to examples of other games where it's easy to cheat mods and people don't, Old World is a good example. You can get achievements while using mods AND while also using the build in game/world editor. So by peoples reasoning, 100% of users should have the majority of mods for the game, but yet, they don't.
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Crap, you mean I won't be able to buy groceries with my achievements any more now that they've been devalued?
An achievement's value is always up to the player. If you worked hard to complete an achievement and feel good about it, I don't see why that should have to change because someone else got it the easy way.
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But.. you could have played differently even before this change.You can always play differently.Now we have to think.What was the point of the achievements.For example I ve spent like 10 hours trying to do the whole lingua franca achievement.I know it sounds desperate but I was feeling fine as I knew others couldn t have just pushed a button and had all the work on a silver plate just because mod.Even the scummiest savescumming takes some work.Now what is even the point?Wasn t the point of the achievements to have some restrictions.To be "achievements" and not "push button to get shiny(it won t be anymore) square"?If I want to play without caring about achievements and going full for fun, can t I just do it on regular?
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Why do people on your side of the argument always act like Steam Achievement Manager doesn't exist?
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thoughts?
Heavy modded players like me don't actually care about achievements
The only thing I feel today when found the achievements available and saw it poping is
'wow, cool'
won't jail myself for some achievements anyway, the community is far more creative than the devs.
Heavy modded players like me don't actually care about achievements
The only thing I feel today when found the achievements available and saw it poping is
'wow, cool'
won't jail myself for some achievements anyway, the community is far more creative than the devs.
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People that wonder about ironmans purpose should ask why mount and blade warband had ironman if you could get achievements without it
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I see people keep downvoting.I get you like the dlc but that doesn t mean you should praise every single thing they do without providing actual arguments instead of:"most people I know just dont care"
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