Achievement: American Territory

[Earmuffs]

So what's the play here?
Can't improve relations with the UK for some reason, but can with France. But can't survive being crushed by the US long enough for France to come save you.
Can't out colonize the US. Very low population so can't even build an army if you could somehow sustain it.
Have to break free of the US before you can even start to chunk away at them which is going to take time with truce's (that can't be broken in this game) so can't leave it too late.
I believe forcing a release of a nation incurs a truce as well? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Some promising factors might be that Texas is pretty weak.

 

[Splorghley]

I'm curious to hear what the strategy for this run might be too.

My first idea was to expand into Texas or northern Mexico (with the US' / a patron's help) and then turn on the US only once I had the capacity to do so, but the Indian Territory seems to start with such a restrictive type of vassalage that its only available diplo play at game start is an independence war against the US. That makes things harder.

I suppose you'd have to get a great power on your side, and hope they send enough troops to defend your front before the war kicks off, so you're not forcibly capitulated out of the war. Then, assuming you achieve independence, rush to expand south and west, again drawing in some great power to do most of the handiwork for you. Presumably the US would get claims on some of these states through Manifest Destiny, so you'd need to maintain strong allies while you raced to build up, and then you'd need to pounce while the US is busy (civil war?).

Sounds like it'd be a tricky and RNG-heavy run, but the key parts would either succeed or fail very quickly, so you could try a couple of times if things don't line up on the first go.

 

[Earmuffs]

That's the problem, you can only do independence. The other issue is there's no access to your territory so you can't rely on French or British troops to defend your lands because they can't get to you. So it seems you need to build up enough defense to withstand the US attacks long enough that a GP can than invade the US.

It never crossed my mind about the civil war though (I don't know why, it's a bit of a notable event during this time period). That's 100% gonna be the way to go. Independence trying to side with the other side in the civil war and hope they have access to your territories to defend you.
Though, after that than what? If you manage to gain independence you're still surrounded by the US.. And at that time there'd be no Mexico or Texas bordering you.

 

[LAF1994]

Why does the Indian Territory (and hence this achievement) exist to begin with? Having the Indian Territory as a 'vassal state' of the US doesn't really seem accurate.

 

[Herr B.]

Why does the Indian Territory (and hence this achievement) exist to begin with? Having the Indian Territory as a 'vassal state' of the US doesn't really seem accurate.

I have no clue about the achievement, but the Indian territory represents the Oklahoma reservation. It is a bit inaccurate, as there is no further action implemented (like the historical downsizing of it), and the other reservations are completely left out (ok, they where not established in 1836, but I can't establish them later on either).

 

[LAF1994]

I have no clue about the achievement, but the Indian territory represents the Oklahoma reservation. It is a bit inaccurate, as there is no further action implemented (like the historical downsizing of it), and the other reservations are completely left out (ok, they where not established in 1836, but I can't establish them later on either).

Why is it represented as a 'country' though? I don't think it was anywhere near that autonomous historically.

 

[Cyhort]

Why is it represented as a 'country' though? I don't think it was anywhere near that autonomous historically.

Another "abstraction".

 

[Herr B.]

Why is it represented as a 'country' though? I don't think it was anywhere near that autonomous historically.

It was self-governing, so describing it as a "vassal" (or dependency) of the US is pretty accurate. See here for more info.

 

[FryFroFella]

That's the problem, you can only do independence. The other issue is there's no access to your territory so you can't rely on French or British troops to defend your lands because they can't get to you. So it seems you need to build up enough defense to withstand the US attacks long enough that a GP can than invade the US.

It never crossed my mind about the civil war though (I don't know why, it's a bit of a notable event during this time period). That's 100% gonna be the way to go. Independence trying to side with the other side in the civil war and hope they have access to your territories to defend you.
Though, after that than what? If you manage to gain independence you're still surrounded by the US.. And at that time there'd be no Mexico or Texas bordering you.

The issue here is the ACW usually doesnt happen lmao

 

[LAF1994]

It was self-governing, so describing it as a "vassal" (or dependency) of the US is pretty accurate. See here for more info.

Being self-governing shouldn't necessarily qualify as a "country" in Vic3. The Indian Territory didn't have its own army (for example), unlike say the EIC.

 

[anbeck]

It is a bit inaccurate, as there is no further action implemented (like the historical downsizing of it)

I got an event that resulted in its annexation, so maybe that is the historical downsizing? Unfortunately, I don't remember the flavor text of the event.

 

[Herr B.]

I got an event that resulted in its annexation, so maybe that is the historical downsizing? Unfortunately, I don't remember the flavor text of the event.

Oh, maybe there is an event. I've not gotten it so far in my US game, and in my other games the Indians stayed around till the end, so I just assumed there wasn't one. Historically, the Indian territory was incorporated into the state of Oklahoma (Oklahoma got statehood in 1907, I believe) which caused it to have less autonomy (the reservations still existed, but smaller).

 

[Herr B.]

Being self-governing shouldn't necessarily qualify as a "country" in Vic3. The Indian Territory didn't have its own army (for example), unlike say the EIC.

I would tend to disagree. A self-governing entity which controls its internal affairs can be described as a "country". I find it additionally nice to see this, because it adds a littlebit of flavour to things.

And regarding army: Not every state needs an army. There are examples of both historical and contemporary states which don't have an army, because of a mighty protector. Yet they are still internationally recognized.

 

[butterfingers158]

Oh, maybe there is an event. I've not gotten it so far in my US game, and in my other games the Indians stayed around till the end, so I just assumed there wasn't one. Historically, the Indian territory was incorporated into the state of Oklahoma (Oklahoma got statehood in 1907, I believe) which caused it to have less autonomy (the reservations still existed, but smaller).

Event fires if Cherokee are no longer discriminated against (aka pass Multiculturalism) or there are no more Cherokee pops in the US

 

[Chakazulu]

I was finally able to gain the upper hand with an Indian Territory run but I literally couldn't get enough states in time for the game to end and there is no way (like in HOI4) to release just one state after puppeting them. Pretty frustrating because I'd have gotten the achievement if I could have released a one-state puppet!