According to Eugen, no new balance patch until late July/early August

[Yossarian23]

Gamers are garbage humans. I love the game. But also maybe we're hearing some disconnect between French and US culture.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

Gamers are garbage humans. I love the game. But also maybe we're hearing some disconnect between French and US culture.

Odd considering like 20% of my customer base are French or French-African and they jump my shit anytime my product isn't doing exactly what I said it would, even if they're the ones messing up.

People getting pissed off about a false product is universal.

 

[Yossarian23]

Odd considering like 20% of my customer base are French or French-African and they jump my shit anytime my product isn't doing exactly what I said it would, even if they're the ones messing up.

People getting pissed off about a false product is universal.

That seems entirely reasonable, too. I don't have any experience with French people, so I defer to your expertise. But aren't they the only European country with <40hr workweek? I thought they might have very different attitudes toward work.

 

[Yossarian23]

Why should I?

That sounds like a copout considering the problems I'm talking about are ones they created for themselves by saying the game would have X, Y and Z features and then not deliver on those features in a timely fashion or even bother to give a rough timeline of implementation. That type of shit doesn't fly in the business world. Those are what we call "empty promises" and that destroys credibility.

As for balancing decks which has always been the community's biggest gripe, that's utter horse shit that they can't be more proactive. They are slow because they rely on their internal data (something they've told the community repeatedly). The changes themselves do not take long, have a look at modding for yourself. You can completely rebuild half the decks or all of them in a day's work if you know your way around the files.

The only thing I'm not capable of assessing is their server instability and game performance for certain customers. The rest of this is business and I am very much capable of assessing their failures there.

Oh, fair enough. I might have misunderstood your grievances, if so, sorry. But I basically agree with everything you say here.

 

[I WUB PUGS]

That seems entirely reasonable, too. I don't have any experience with French people, so I defer to your expertise. But aren't they the only European country with <40hr workweek? I thought they might have very different attitudes toward work.

Doesn't matter. They sell a global product. Hours worked per week isn't really the issue when it has more to do with poor planning and haphazard promises.

 

[EUG_MadMat]

If they communicated with their community, even allowing us to vote on the future direction of their games, then they might end up making a game which a majority would enjoy.

Isn't it exactly what we did with AoA? Asking players every steps of the way to give their opinion through polls? And acting on them ...
Which evolved into ...

Last time they were "working on updates" for one of their games we they ended up giving us Act of Aggression Reboot Edition, which no one wanted.

---------------------------------------------------

Having a roadmap, would be nice. But publishing the plans often only leads to more negative feedback. There are always enough people, who will hate the planned changes. Especially in a game with so many different modes. And those people usually dominate the discussion.

We have a roadmap. And in the past, we did publish it, after much community requests such as here. in theory, it should have been the end of old rants and prevent patch-day's flame wars over patchlogs since people would be forewarned ... Some old Wargamers might remember it.
In real life, it just started the flame wars weeks in advance.

Regarding server stats, and the time it takes for the next patch to be released ...
Despite doomsayings & individual gut feelers, game balance improves with every patch. One's favorite division/unit might have been nerfed in the previous, it isn't out of nazibooism or allied bias, it is because it was needed for the game balance's greater good.
i.e. the last patch might not have the longest change log, yet it addressed most of the structural problem this forum and others had been complaining about: planes' presence, 20mm & autocannon efficiency, flamethrowers & engineers' explosives, off-map artillery, ... And not just by tweaking one unit or two.

I'm not saying here that balance is perfect between all 18 divisions right now, but that with each patch, we're getting closer to it. Hence with each new patch, we have to be more careful not to break what was achieved before.
Therefore, after each patch, we have to wait to have enough data (hence enough games played) to see the results of the previous changes in order to decide the next patch's direction. Or we could act every two days on SpongeBob1235's insight, wisely given 4mn after the change log has been posted, that his favorite division has been "killed" and is now "the bottom of the barrel" because his favorite tank has been nerfed by 5$ ...

But aren't they the only European country with <40hr workweek? I thought they might have very different attitudes toward work.

There's a law called "35-hours law" which sets the legal weekly working hours at 35.
But unlike everything you'll read about French people only working 35 hours, it just means we are paid on a 35 hours/week basis.
Trust me, most of us here are working well over 40 hours a week ...

 

[Ashleighs]

Poor Spongebob1235 got nerfed =p

To me it makes sense to gather stats and then act on it. Being new here I was surprised to see people wanting balance changes faster than 2-4 weeks, maybe they have a good reason to want that I dunno. The way you are doing it makes the most sense and reduces the chance of breaking something. Not to mention its a much more efficient use of programming hours this way.

 

[Hidden Gunman]

I just checked...looks like Spongebob1235 rage quit the forums.

 

[Dianno5741]

I'm hoping the new content are things to help with current "balance" issues.

example:
Offmap artillery isn't where would like to go for meta, so now X divisions get 155s for more onmap counter play.

Stuff like that. Just please don't do what CoH2 did by just giving us new "Commanders" instead of fixing old ones.

 

[local-festival]

@EUG_MadMat, are you guys working on desync issue? I mean are there any possible fixes in observable future, it's tenfold more important than tweaking stats. I know a number of dedicated players that don't play because this issue has been extremely frequent lately.

 

[Gondie]

Isn't it exactly what we did with AoA? Asking players every steps of the way to give their opinion through polls? And acting on them ...
Which evolved into ...

Man! Finaly i can relate to eugen for once!

I burned my finger while cooking once, defenetly the pots fault! 10/10 will never cook agan!

We have a roadmap. And in the past, we did publish it, after much community requests such as here. in theory, it should have been the end of old rants and prevent patch-day's flame wars over patchlogs since people would be forewarned ... Some old Wargamers might remember it.
In real life, it just started the flame wars weeks in advance.

Just a bunch of excuses why Eugen dont need to get in conversation with som of the top players. Discussing the running meta and whats the reason for it agan.. But it all gets clear if you read this sentence.. " In real life, it just started the flame wars weeks in advance. " Not praising is flame! How dare u call up on nonsens patchnotes befor they are released.. THEY LIKED OUR GAME!

Regarding server stats, and the time it takes for the next patch to be released ...
Despite doomsayings & individual gut feelers, game balance improves with every patch. One's favorite division/unit might have been nerfed in the previous, it isn't out of nazibooism or allied bias, it is because it was needed for the game balance's greater good.
i.e. the last patch might not have the longest change log, yet it addressed most of the structural problem this forum and others had been complaining about: planes' presence, 20mm & autocannon efficiency, flamethrowers & engineers' explosives, off-map artillery, ... And not just by tweaking one unit or two.

The playerbase is gone... Most of the competetiv meta players are gone.. And a good part of them that still sticks in there plays fun divisions and random shit.. What do your rly think u gather ther? But hey, better throw in some 10v10 unit usage data into 1v1 balance.. Huduhhhh, this will do the job~ Do i have to point out how flawed the 'statistic data' chant is? Or do i get called a cheater if i do?

And bringing up the 20mm 'fixes'? Comon ur making it easy.. the 20mm 'fixes' was a nice show off that u had no, utterly no grasp and understanding on the current game meta and why ur so called 'AT gun bug fix' broke it so havy and swong it in favor of 20mm guns.. But yes yes.. instead of fixing the ATG u broke, u better started nerfing all of the 20mm.. Classic Eugen Logik.

Therefore, after each patch, we have to wait to have enough data (hence enough games played) to see the results of the previous changes in order to decide the next patch's

Yep.. clearly the players fault that we dont get patches and unit hotfixes asap.. Looks like a trend... somthing fucked = players fault!

There's a law called "35-hours law" which sets the legal weekly working hours at 35.
But unlike everything you'll read about French people only working 35 hours, it just means we are paid on a 35 hours/week basis.
Trust me, most of us here are working well over 40 hours a week ...

Oh, in this case u have to be totaly overworked alredy.. i would better take another vacation, just in case~

 

[morpher]

Isn't it exactly what we did with AoA? Asking players every steps of the way to give their opinion through polls? And acting on them ...
Which evolved into ...

Come on, you can't blame all nine of them.

 

[Claremont Waltz]

We have a roadmap. And in the past, we did publish it, after much community requests such as here. in theory, it should have been the end of old rants and prevent patch-day's flame wars over patchlogs since people would be forewarned ... Some old Wargamers might remember it.
In real life, it just started the flame wars weeks in advance.

I remember that being a few problem users stirring up trouble regularly, but it was years ago. My experience of flamewars as someone who's used and run (not anymore thankfully) bbs and then vb forums for over 15yrs now has been that flame wars are only as inevitable as moderators allow them to be. Certainly PDS seems to manage to prevent unhelpful or excessive bickering in their development diaries.

Why not give it a shot here and have the Paradox mod team police behavior if things get out of hand? You'd get more positive buzz and community driven outreach if we the community had a rough outline of future plans (obviously subject to change) and some vaguely described long term goals that everyone could discuss and point to and get excited about. In the long run that translates into community building, heightened consumer engagement and more sales for you guys (aka more people for us to play against). And because the Eugen dev team wouldn't be the ones handling moderation it wouldn't impact you guys if we had the occasional flame war. Oh, and it'd also change the conversation from "dead game, will Eugen even survive??" to something more positive.

So long as you don't go all Molyneux on us most people will understand that nothing is written in stone and will police the whiners in the community by shouting them down. I'm not suggesting that you post exact patch notes (PDS does those the day before a patch), just a rough declaration of intent in a few areas plus what your team is thinking in regard to some of the big topics going around in the community. Rough time lines for the next patch wouldn't hurt either, with updates if the date needs to be pushed for whatever reason. You guys didn't set expectations for the last patch so many of us - me included - thought that there would be a two to three week gap between patches as during beta. When expectations differ from reality, people get angry. That's a pretty natural response.

I know this would be a big change for Eugen, but you guys were doing essentially this during the beta and everyone was into it and you had much more positive community response and discussiob here and on reddit. Going back to that method would do a lot to improve the current situation.

 

[Drang]

You left out 'balance tweaking' of Phase C. The current play model is counter-productive outside of low player number games...and regardless of what some people think, those larger modes are popular.

I was being deliberately minimalistic in my proposed changes.

 

[Dianno5741]

Gondie's post is a good way to get banned lol.

I can see where he's coming from, however the only thing I would agree with is more communication. I feel bad a bit because they can't win. If they posted notes you'd just have flame posts about why the patch will suck instead of why their communication sucks.

The game is 2 months old and the potential is there. It'll just take time. Otherwise instead of flaming them the best way to "protest" is just not buy DLC or products from Paradox. Similar to why I don't buy Ubisoft or Gearbox games (salty A:CM fan). saltiness won't make them release stuff faster or bring players in. If you're bored go play something else.

 

[Gondie]

Gondie's post is a good way to get banned lol.

Disagreeing with Eugen is a good way to get banned indeed. Purge the heretics! Cleans the forums! Excomunicatus up on harold alexander!^^
No srsly.. After 3 month of pointing out flaws, giving masses of constructiv critics and in return getting ur name slanderd, i think sarcasem is the way to go in the end.

If they postet patchnotes in advance, shure ther would be a massive outcry on evry singel post. But then its time to read the outcry and decide if its valid or just flame.. Thaths what ther fucking job is.. not demanding a femenist like ecochamber wher evrything they do is taken like a givt from the Emperor himself. Shit like the fucked up ATGs could have been prevented, menawhile peopel bitching about the Observer arty nerfs could have been discarded.. But who am i to disagree with the all mighty empero.. i mean Eugene. Praised they shall be and ther server statistics, all glory to the perfekt game as they do liked it!

And even incase i call up erxterminatus upon all of us.. here is a rare leak of Eugens roademap. (I even put it in spoler, so i dont hurt anyones feefees or interupt the chants with heretic sarcasem.)

Spoiler: Le roademap!

 

[Captains]

I still wounder how @Gondie wasn't banned first rather than poor old harold

 

[Gondie]

I still wounder how @Gondie wasn't banned first rather than poor old harold

cause gondie did nothing wrong^^

I still dont understand why Harold was banned at all. I completly disagree with him on many balance points to be fair. But what did he do to deserve a bann? Making a sarcastic post? Is this the new SJW Forums where your not alowed to post anything that could maybe hurt somones feefees? In this case i demand to be called "Gondie the slaaneshy space unicorn from Armageddon", as this is my self identifying gender from now on.. untill i decide otherwise.. if you dont call me appropriate, ur oppressing me!^^

 

[Dianno5741]

Frankly, unless you work at Eugen's HR you don't know what anybody's job actually is. The AT gun thing was a bug which then perpetuated a problem. Yah it was a screw up but bugs need fixing.

Game has been live for two months. Half the issues we have weren't in BETA. I can't speak for VIP beta as I wasn't in it. Sarcasm isn't going to increase how fast they move, it'll literally just get you banned. Regardless of your opinion. Again, best way to protest is just don't buy their stuff.

My guess is while I don't know if statistics is the way to go, it's trying to be objective with changes. Otherwise you have half the threads saying KT OP Pl0x nerf naow!!! And the other half saying KT UP, allies too stronk!!! How do you decide which is accurate?

If you talk to top 1v1 guys for balance they might not know or care about other game modes.... and on and on. So they turn to statistics. Sure it has flaws but they won't win regardless.

 

[Gondie]

Frankly, unless you work at Eugen's HR you don't know what anybody's job actually is. The AT gun thing was a bug which then perpetuated a problem. Yah it was a screw up but bugs need fixing.

I dont care what the personal jobs are in Eugen, but as a company they have to go out and face ther costumers and listen. Not sitting there backholding simpel things like roadmaps just so they dont have to face any critics.

A bug that benefits the game, can be made a feature.. or just being fixed and screwed up.. and then screwed up even more..

Game has been live for two months. Half the issues we have weren't in BETA. I can't speak for VIP beta as I wasn't in it. Sarcasm isn't going to increase how fast they move, it'll literally just get you banned. Regardless of your opinion. Again, best way to protest is just don't buy their stuff.

Half the problems wherend in beta, cause half the divisions wherend in beta.. and the systematical problem that where in beta, are still in here today.. and if sarcasem gets me bannes, its just the best way of profing that they dont want any critics in here and this is just a SJW style forum you go to praise the Eugene.

My guess is while I don't know if statistics is the way to go, it's trying to be objective with changes. Otherwise you have half the threads saying KT OP Pl0x nerf naow!!! And the other half saying KT UP, allies too stronk!!! How do you decide which is accurate?

If you talk to top 1v1 guys for balance they might not know or care about other game modes.... and on and on. So they turn to statistics. Sure it has flaws but they won't win regardless.

Funny that the good 1v1 players are the same in 2v2 3v3 and 4v4.. at this point we know the big names, rly its not hard to get in contact with them.. And if half the forum demands a nerf while the other half demands a buff on somthing, its this point you go the experts and ask them if thers somthing wrong with the unit.