Absolutely brutal playing as new world nation

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bbasgen

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I tried my hand at creating the Mayan Empire in a series of iron man games (starting as Xiu). At my best, after 100 years (~1550s) I was able to beat my contemporaries, reform the religion, and create the Maya holding all of Central America. I was feeling pretty good about myself at the time! ;)

The brutal part, however, is holding off the Europeans even with the (essential) reformation bonus in tech. Surprisingly, neither the Spanish nor the British have been challenging, but the French have been like an army of the dead: unstoppable. Even with the same military tech level, they have morale, tactical, and discipline bonuses that shred my forces to dust. Even if I outnumber them 3 to 2, they easily win.

Worse yet, underdevelopment leaves me with a very low manpower and force limit (Quantity was my first military idea), coupled with a moderate economy means the French outnumber me two to one while I struggle to pay for replacements (thus, a war of attrition works in their favor, not mine). Strangely, they seem to use their entire continental army on me, and they declare war the moment the truce runs out.

I've tried making allies, but all the main European powers have a hard set -200 relations because they want my provinces (Brittany lasted with me one go round with France, and then left after falling to them). Sometimes I've drawn the French to stalemate, other times I've given ground to them only to get it back in the next war, but every time they decimate my forces and lands. The relatively new devastation effect is compounding my losses. I'm now in the early 1700s, overrun, deep in debt, and without an army.

I'm not playing a perfect game, of course, but for iron man I think I'm playing this pretty close to as good as possible. Two lessons I've learned in my current iron man is that all my infantry should be mercs (since I don't have the manpower to absorb the heavy losses), but that administrative ideas (coupled with quantity and defensive) are essential to shore up my economy to pay for mercs and constant invasions.

Are the French in the current patch just super powered, or is playing in the New World asking for constant punishment? Am I missing something where it shouldn't be this hard?
 

Lepaso

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It sounds like you don't have naval superiority over the French. Their colonial nations shouldn't be an issue, and from your post it sounds like they aren't, it's just the french themselves that are ruining you, right? The french can't devastate you to hell and back if all their shipped troops get a burial at sea. Make heavy fleet. Make shipyards in all ports. Rule the high seas, hem the french in at home, make the fighting take place exclusively on french soil.

edit:
Oh, and a sort of early-on tip, it's probably too late in your game: If the AI colonizes next to you and declares war on you, march on their colony, raze/seize it so they don't have a direct land connection to you, then immediately peace out, giving them money. The AI doesn't like taking land it doesn't have a colony directly adjacent to. It will only stave them off for a few years, but it's better than fighting a war you can't win without extreme luck, and you can do this over and over until you have a military capable of winning.
 
Last edited:

Vetgirig

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Go for quality not quantity when it comes to army. Since you gonna be fighting the europeans and they usually are military tech levels above you when you encounter them. Build space marines.

But yes ruling the seas mean they can't send troops to attack you on land. But its a big sea so you probably will have to fight them on land too. In my games I always go for naval superiority - it makes the games so much easier - regardless which nation I play.
 

atwix

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Even if I outnumber them 3 to 2, they easily win.

outnumber him 2 or three to one then. go in debt for mercs if necessary.

Two lessons I've learned in my current iron man is that all my infantry should be mercs (since I don't have the manpower to absorb the heavy losses), but that administrative ideas (coupled with quantity and defensive) are essential to shore up my economy to pay for mercs and constant invasions.
err, the gold mines should pay for ut. did you develop all gold mines to 10+? That should be plenty of money for mercs there :)


ships eh? I dunno. You will be lacking in naval quality and morale.

I usually let them land and wipe them out with overwhelming forces.

But that's me.
 

bbasgen

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Thanks everyone, great advice!

I had been almost completely ignoring the navy; going only with a small fleet on the Pacific side to steer trade for Panama. Having a decent navy likely would have helped.

In terms of quality instead of quantity: doesn't the merc bonus make quantity the better choice, since it is essential to rely on a large merc force?

Regarding outnumbering the French: it isn't possible due to force limit. Theirs is around twice as large as mine, so even if I exceed force limit a bit, their armies are much more massive. Good advice on developing gold mines: I've never done that before, but it is pretty obvious now that you say it! :)

My game is coming to a conclusion, and I've done okay: not a great power, but fairly close. All of Central America, Texas & Louisiana, as well as Columbia & Venezuela. I think this advice would help, but in ironman it isn't easy to be sure!
 

Brynjar

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Naval superiority is probably the way to go. As the French don't have any naval ideas either, it's usually pretty easy to get. Build some heavies, and get a naval leader with manouvering (for extra engagement width).

Where are the French invading from? Are their troops already on the main land when they declare war?
Using a light ship for scouting where the French keep their armies and transport fleet can be very useful, as it's most likely not in France.
 

otaats

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Naval superiority was vital when I conquered all of South America as the inca

Yeah, naval superiority in the Americas make it a super easy game. However, none of the Incan minors start with a coastal province, so it's hard to get there when the Europeans come.
 

Brynjar

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Yeah, naval superiority in the Americas make it a super easy game. However, none of the Incan minors start with a coastal province, so it's hard to get there when the Europeans come.

Huh? Quito, Ichma and Chimu all have coastal provinces. And what are you doing for the first 100-150 years if you aren't colonizing? However, you can't build ships until you reform. Since the Europeans normally don't attack right away, that's not really a problem though.

Edit: They don't start as Incan, but by the time the Europeans arrive, they should be.
 

Brynjar

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Yes, but having 3-5 coastal provinces isn't enough for a strong fleet really. That was my point.
And my point is that you have 100-150 years to colonize, much of that time with 3 colonizers (assuming you don't pick expansion). By the time the Europeans arrive, you should have plenty of coastal provinces. (also it's more than 3-5, Chimu alone have 5). Getting naval superiority as the Inca is easy, and it shouldn't be much harder starting in Mexico. The AI is simply not building enough ships for their currently broken priorities, or to perform naval invasions at all vs. a prepared player.
 

Bibor

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Yes, navy is the problem here, not land units. 10-20 heavies will keep Euros at bay, as they simply cannot rebuild their navy that fast.

Not directly tied to native games, but I tend to wipe out enemy fleets whenever I can, especially those of great powers. They rarely rebuild to original size.
 

bbasgen

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How interesting! I never would have guessed the navy would be some important for a new world nation, but it makes a lot of sense. If this naval strategy holds the Europeans off, I could see a fairly achievable conquest of north, central, and south America by game end. Sounds a new game forming the Inca is a good choice!
 

jdavis86

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Going full merc as you've described is a viable build, but I think it is probably better to go professionalism here.

If early victories could prevent a "beach-head" so to speak, then full professionalism with fully drilled armies is most helpful.