About uprisings

[coachjohn]

Do the rebels have the same tech level as the country. I’m MIng and the rebels are killing me. I’m level 7 with mortars.

And yes I watch my troop make up - 20 infantry and two calavery with mortars to put them in back row.

Good general too.

If that do start with same tech - how? Did they rob my armory?

 

[Shiny Dog]

Do the rebels have the same tech level as the country. I’m MIng and the rebels are killing me. I’m level 7 with mortars.
If that do start with same tech - how? Did they rob my armory?

Yes and yes, with one exception.
Rebel armies will have the same technology as the nation they spawned from. The only exception to this rule is that Separatist rebels will be the nation they WANT to join's technology.
The only thing they do not inherit is your morale modifiers, which is important because even if you lose 10x as many as the rebel troops, the rebel stack will disintegrate if you win the battle.

 

[Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom!]

Are these the rebels spawned by events or are they built up over time with unrest? The events warn you where they are going to spawn so you can set up on them. Event pop ups stay up for 4 months before they force a decision.

 

[Major Malfunction]

 

[Karst]

If you're experiencing what sounds like repeated rebel uprisings as Ming, I'm assuming you're probably having issues with the Mandate of Heaven?
Having mandate strength under 50 gives devastating combat penalties that will cause your troops to evaporate. This creates the snowball effect of rebels devastating China, mandate dropping due to devastation, unrest increasing due to low mandate, ultimately leading to the 'Mingsplosion'.

 

[Orthodox zealot]

Current rebels mechanics are crap. How the hell 11 thousand troops can spawn from a province with only 3 development? Why are they getting players discipline? Thats stupid

 

[buxomant]

Current rebels mechanics are crap. How the hell 11 thousand troops can spawn from a province with only 3 development?

I think rebel stack size (the unrest kind) is influenced by the sum total dev from provinces generating unrest for that rebel type. And they typically spawn in the province with the highest dev (of the aforementioned provinces). 11k troops coming solely out of 3 dev sounds a tad high, is that from actual gameplay?

Though I agree the numbers can sometimes get quite ridiculous -- in my run as Manchu horde, culture-converting everything (for extra banners), I had hundreds of provinces that could only spawn tribal rebels. So whenever I got overextended, the potential rebel stack could be a million strong because it takes into account every province with more than +0.1 unrest (which was nearly all of them).

Why are they getting players discipline? Thats stupid

Definitely stupid, though I guess they'd be much less of a threat if they'd have only base discipline. There are a number of stupid things in the game honestly, like how hiring a +5% discipline advisor takes effect immediately (even mid-battle). So if you know a rebellion is coming up, switch to a crap military advisor, and only hire the discipline one after the monthly tick when the rebels spawn (I think that should apply the additional 5% bonus only to your troops).

Or, if you're getting desperate (and happy with a tedious game), get used to pausing the game on the 1st of the month. It's when the rebellion ticks up (say 90% -> 100%), but the rebels only spawn on the next day after that. So you should have a chance to do very targeted harsh treatment (100% -> 70%), preventing the rebellion entirely

 

[Orthodox zealot]

I think rebel stack size (the unrest kind) is influenced by the sum total dev from provinces generating unrest for that rebel type. And they typically spawn in the province with the highest dev (of the aforementioned provinces). 11k troops coming solely out of 3 dev sounds a tad high, is that from actual gameplay?

Though I agree the numbers can sometimes get quite ridiculous -- in my run as Manchu horde, culture-converting everything (for extra banners), I had hundreds of provinces that could only spawn tribal rebels. So whenever I got overextended, the potential rebel stack could be a million strong because it takes into account every province with more than +0.1 unrest (which was nearly all of them).


Definitely stupid, though I guess they'd be much less of a threat if they'd have only base discipline. There are a number of stupid things in the game honestly, like how hiring a +5% discipline advisor takes effect immediately (even mid-battle). So if you know a rebellion is coming up, switch to a crap military advisor, and only hire the discipline one after the monthly tick when the rebels spawn (I think that should apply the additional 5% bonus only to your troops).

Or, if you're getting desperate (and happy with a tedious game), get used to pausing the game on the 1st of the month. It's when the rebellion ticks up (say 90% -> 100%), but the rebels only spawn on the next day after that. So you should have a chance to do very targeted harsh treatment (100% -> 70%), preventing the rebellion entirely

i was saying: for example you annex only 1 province with 3 dev and rebell stack is ridiculusly big(11 thousand regiments)

 

[KaiserJohan]

Rebel stacks are capped by by your FL and the Supply Limit in a province with a few exceptions.

For Separatist Rebels it helps to leave the country you conquered provinces from with one province if their military is worse than yours since they will use their stats rather than yours when they spawn.

 

[ArzhurG]

Rebel stacks are capped by by your FL and the Supply Limit in a province with a few exceptions.

For Separatist Rebels it helps to leave the country you conquered provinces from with one province if their military is worse than yours since they will use their stats rather than yours when they spawn.

I find it very hard to resist not taking it all!

One thing to keep in mind when doing it though is that there will be one more nation that can join a coalition against you (one the truce is over). If you are close to a coalition, destroying them can be more beneficial than weaker rebels.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Rebel stacks are capped by by your FL and the Supply Limit in a province with a few exceptions.

In the early game this isn't even close to true. I've had some scenarios where a single stack of rebels spawning was nearly 2x force limit of my nation. That's unwinnable if they spawn + can't be exported, so they had to be prevented from spawning (hunt rebels + feudal de jure law + raise auto if absolutely necessary).

 

[KaiserJohan]

I find it very hard to resist not taking it all!

One thing to keep in mind when doing it though is that there will be one more nation that can join a coalition against you (one the truce is over). If you are close to a coalition, destroying them can be more beneficial than weaker rebels.

Absolutely! It's a trade-of

In the early game this isn't even close to true. I've had some scenarios where a single stack of rebels spawning was nearly 2x force limit of my nation. That's unwinnable if they spawn + can't be exported, so they had to be prevented from spawning (hunt rebels + feudal de jure law + raise auto if absolutely necessary).

What kind of rebels were they?

 

[Howl]

Rebel stacks are capped by by your FL and the Supply Limit in a province with a few exceptions.

For Separatist Rebels it helps to leave the country you conquered provinces from with one province if their military is worse than yours since they will use their stats rather than yours when they spawn.

I am really surprised by this statement. I tested this years ago and it still has the same result.
Start as Navarra, yesman, declare on Aragon, take lots of provinces, wait for rebels to spawn...

Unless capped by force limit means:"Rebel groups are split into stacks not larger than your force limit." this is not working as intended.
Force limit is 8.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What kind of rebels were they?

Separatists, or actually most rebel types if you have sufficient unrest in enough development early on.

Unless capped by force limit means:"Rebel groups are split into stacks not larger than your force limit." this is not working as intended.

I've had a 21 stack spawn at FL ~13 this patch. I allowed it because I had a big ally to kill it during war.

 

[KaiserJohan]

Separatists, or actually most rebel types if you have sufficient unrest in enough development early on.
I've had a 21 stack spawn at FL ~13 this patch. I allowed it because I had a big ally to kill it during war.

I am really surprised by this statement. I tested this years ago and it still has the same result.
Start as Navarra, yesman, declare on Aragon, take lots of provinces, wait for rebels to spawn...

Unless capped by force limit means:"Rebel groups are split into stacks not larger than your force limit." this is not working as intended.
Force limit is 8.

That is what I meant, perhaps I phrased it badly capped by by FL and Supply Limit per province, split up into several stacks if needs be. I think this screws you if you are an OPM
I talked to groogy about this just a few days ago on an unrelated note and IIRC there is atleast one rebel type that was exempt from this but I do not recall which ones

EDIT: Tribal Rebels for example

 

[TheMeInTeam]

That is what I meant, perhaps I phrased it badly capped by by FL and Supply Limit per province, split up into several stacks if needs be.

It's not "and" right now, it's "or". "And" implies that both things cap it, where in practice if supply limit is high enough FL does not appear to be capped.

Unless you meant FL generated by each individual province. Even that isn't true, however, because you can reduce the size of rebel stack in that one province by eliminating unrest elsewhere. So that 21 stack could be reduced to ~17k by removing unrest from other provinces, suggesting the game just straight up allows rebels larger than your force limit.

I don't think EU 4 has ever capped rebellion size or even individual rebel stack size to player FL, even going back to the revolt risk % days. It certainly does not consistently split stacks to honor nation FL right now.

 

[Major Malfunction]

That is what I meant, perhaps I phrased it badly capped by by FL and Supply Limit per province, split up into several stacks if needs be. I think this screws you if you are an OPM
I talked to groogy about this just a few days ago on an unrelated note and IIRC there is atleast one rebel type that was exempt from this but I do not recall which ones

EDIT: Tribal Rebels for example

But now rebels pose more threat to neighboring countries rather the the one that spawned them. An example: A major have a standart uprising after a conquest, it cannot cripple him just because he can blast any number of rebels easily, so major can wait a bit and wait until rebel stack moves to neighboring province. When some 20-40k stack moves to a country that can muster 15k at best that means that country screwed over and could only hope that rebels will move away to some other land.
Conquer useless land, let several stack to revolt, wait till they move to your neighbors to screw them over. Let's face it - rebels are not a serious threat to the player - it is a threat to AI. Most players can live through 120%+ overextension rebel spree period easily.

 

[Ruian]

I often see the case of rebels spawning in one AI and ping ponging between them forever because they don't want to fight the rebels. Each AI dutifully unsieges their province and the rebels march back across the border ad infinitum.

 

[Major Malfunction]

I often see the case of rebels spawning in one AI and ping ponging between them forever because they don't want to fight the rebels. Each AI dutifully unsieges their province and the rebels march back across the border ad infinitum.

it could be better.
1. Rebels cross the borders and siege AI province.
2. Rebels then go back to siege another province AI or player took back.
3. AI moves to reclaim his province.
4. AI starts drilling
5. Rebels coming back and crush AI because AI could not understand when to stop drilling.

 

[atwix]

I'm pretty sure the rebels inherit morale modifiers from your nation, but not the discipline ones. If turkish rebels spawn in byzantium, and Ottomans have tech 15 while Byzantium has 14, the rebels will have better tech and huge morale boost. But, they will NOT get the discipline bonus from Ottomans offensive group.

That is how all this works right? Is this good example?