About those new SLDF-Mechs

[Nicked Name]

I edited together an Item Collection to take a peek and i wonder:

The new SLDF-Mechs, although appearing as "parts" in the files, are complete Mechs.
/edit: This was a mistake on my part, lack of sleep + wall of text caused me to not only copy from the wrong file, the quantity/availability which would have given away my mistake also got bulldozed over as i changed those values for the weapons i included as well. My bad.

The Marauder, although using DHS like other SLDF-Mechs, has neither Endo-Steel nor XL-Reactor.

Is this by design?

 

[Jade_Rook]

In this game they have accounted for Endosteel and XL engines by increasing the available tonnage for other equipment. They don't use internal slots and the loss of a side torso doesn't disable a mech with an XL engine.

I haven't had a chance to look at the files myself, but it sounds correct.

 

[Axterix13]

Also worth noting that not all mechs use all the advanced tech. Some might only have DHS, or a Gauss, or Endo Steel. Not sure about these particular variants, just saying that because a mech is SLDF, doesn't mean it uses all the tech.

 

[Antagonist85]

Specifically the Marauder 2R uses only DHS, CASE and Ferro Fibrous armor. Thus far, the vanilla game only models DHS.

 

[Stridercal]

Yep, the -2R is actually the SLDF 'Mech that was later dumbed-down to the 3R spec. Standard engine, FF armor, DHS, and pretty basic weapons.

The only 'Mech we've got in the game with an XL engine right now is the PHX-1b/c. And maybe the Bull Shark, but that thing's ClanTech, so who knows what it's packin'.

 

[Axterix13]

The only 'Mech we've got in the game with an XL engine right now is the PHX-1b/c. And maybe the Bull Shark, but that thing's ClanTech, so who knows what it's packin'.

It has an XL engine. And Endo Steel. That's how the numbers work out. Clans just have improved versions of what the SLDF started, and neither offers additional weight savings, just fewer crits. And since this game ignores those crits entirely...

 

[Stridercal]

It has an XL engine. And Endo Steel. That's how the numbers work out. Clans just have improved versions of what the SLDF started, and neither offers additional weight savings, just fewer crits. And since this game ignores those crits entirely...

I've run the build through SSW, and that was my conclusion as well - XL engine, Endo Steel, and Late-SLDF prototype weapons. Still, i'd love to see it make it into canon...

 

[Antagonist85]

I'm pretty sure the Royal Atlas also has an XL engine.

You can get to its empty weight of 22 tons if you use a 300XL, endo steel and a time traveling compact gyro.

 

[BrianDavion]

regarding the MAD-2R there's a bit of history to the design. back in the original 3025 TRO the MAD-3R's history noted part of the designs secret was it's super advanced armor. this descriptor would later on essentially be understood in retrospect to "likely be FF armor" so later on when they started developing the SLDF mechs beyond what was in TRO 2750 we got a early model MAD with FFA

 

[stjobe]

regarding the MAD-2R there's a bit of history to the design. back in the original 3025 TRO the MAD-3R's history noted part of the designs secret was it's super advanced armor. this descriptor would later on essentially be understood in retrospect to "likely be FF armor" so later on when they started developing the SLDF mechs beyond what was in TRO 2750 we got a early model MAD with FFA

"The Valiant Lamellor armor is another of the Marauder's singular features. Less massive and better able to distribute heat and kinetic energy than other armor types, the secret of its manufacture has been lost. In the present era, the Marauder is one of the few 'Mechs to use it. As blasted patches have to be replaced with conventional armor, some Marauders now resemble metallic patchwork quilts."
- Technical Readout 3025 (original), p.98

 

[Stridercal]

I'm pretty sure the Royal Atlas also has an XL engine.

You can get to its empty weight of 22 tons if you use a 300XL, endo steel and a time traveling compact gyro.

The Royal Atlas in HBS Battletech is totes illegal in tabletop. But the stock lore build still wrecks face in HBS Battletech if you edit it in.

 

[Antagonist85]

The Royal Atlas in HBS Battletech is totes illegal in tabletop. But the stock lore build still wrecks face in HBS Battletech if you edit it in.

Yeah, the fit is illegal because it mixes SHS with DHS. It's also a temporal anachronism. What it isn't, is illegal from the basic chassis framework as, like I've said, you can reach the stated empty weight with level 3 tech.

 

[BlankinLoud]

Yeah, the fit is illegal because it mixes SHS with DHS. It's also a temporal anachronism. What it isn't, is illegal from the basic chassis framework as, like I've said, you can reach the stated empty weight with level 3 tech.

The Periphery is vast and Comstar is far away. If Yang can make a wrecked mech functional by mixing single and double heat sinks, I'm not about to stop him.

 

[Jade_Rook]

There are official rules for mixing single and double heat sinks around somewhere. I think it was part of some old experimental tech before they had official rules?

Without engine double heat sinks mixing isn't a big deal. With engine DHS there is some ability to game critical slots by putting DHS in the engine then using SHS for more space efficiency. Mostly I think it is a bookkeeping issue on tabletop.

I think the additional difference in weight on the AS7-D-HT is not from a compact gyro but a weight adjustment for the lack of engine DHS and/or the ferro-fibrous armor weight savings. They cut some corners to get everything to work and I am okay with that.

 

[Stridercal]

There are official rules for mixing single and double heat sinks around somewhere. I think it was part of some old experimental tech before they had official rules?

Without engine double heat sinks mixing isn't a big deal. With engine DHS there is some ability to game critical slots by putting DHS in the engine then using SHS for more space efficiency. Mostly I think it is a bookkeeping issue on tabletop.

I think the additional difference in weight on the AS7-D-HT is not from a compact gyro but a weight adjustment for the lack of engine DHS and/or the ferro-fibrous armor weight savings. They cut some corners to get everything to work and I am okay with that.

I'm justtttt anal-retentive enough to not be okay with that, so i'm fixing it as best i can.

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

Table top Construction rules from the current Table Top Tech Manual..

 

[stjobe]

I think the problem is that the BattleTech rules have been back and forth on heat sinks over the years; in 1986, this was a thing:

(Tales of the Black Widow Company, p.47)

(Tales of the Black Widow Company, p.40)

(Tales of the Black Widow Company, p.41)

Currently, the construction rules forbid mixing SHS and DHS, the customisation rules forbid it, and the FrankenMech rules forbid it. The repair & replace rules do not explicitly forbid it, although it could be argued that switching a SHS for a DHS is a customisation, so forbidden by those rules.

 

[Dogfisc]

I’m more surprised by the movement profile: walk 4, jump 9?

 

[Prussian Havoc]

I’m more surprised by the movement profile: walk 4, jump 9?

Like the old advert, “This is not your Gather’s Buick!”

“These are not your GreatX8 Grandfather’s SLDF Mechs!”

#May3052comguardFTW

 

[stjobe]

I’m more surprised by the movement profile: walk 4, jump 9?

As per its sarna entry, it has Prototype Improved Jump Jets:

"The Super Griffin was designed in 3020 as a part of "Project Phoenix" together with the Super Wasp at the Friden Aerospace Park research facility on Hoff by House Davion scientists including Dr. Jorge Belasco. After eighteen months of work, an operational Super Griffin prototype had been completed but it was still untested when the Black Widow Company attacked the facility on 13 May 3022. The Super Griffin was a test-bed for prototype Improved Jump Jets and Prototype Double Heat Sinks developed by the NAIS after reviewing the Halstead Collection."
- sarna.net entry for Super Griffin

Edit: Oh, and here's the lore explanation for mixing SHS and pDHS:

"These Prototype Double Heat Sinks were created by House Davion researchers. Unlike the Double Heat Sinks used by the Star League and after the War of 3039 these prototype units were smaller and could be mixed with standard heat sinks. As an experiment, they worked adequately, but their use of liquid heavy metals instead of the safer (if larger) radiators used in SLDF double heat sinks meant that they would only work for a few years before needing replacement. In addition the heavy metals were difficult to work with in the field and dangerous to the technical staff supporting them.
Several of these heat sinks were used in both the Super Griffin prototype developed on Hoff and were installed on several Eridani Light Horse 'Mechs for further testing. Given their limitations however, they were quickly scrapped when the Helm Memory Core was decrypted."
- sarna.net entry for Prototype Double Heat Sinks, emphasis mine