About the oil of the Iraq-Give France a historically accurate piece of the oilcake like it had (and for a bit better balancing)

[Crazy-Krauthead]

So finally we got a change in the Iraq Oil, but as I saw its now complete british. But why? After WW1 France got 25% of the shares, which were originally owned by a german company, from the Turkish Petroleum Company, which got renamed to the Iraq Petroleum Company.

France got this piece of the iraq oilcake, while the brits had the control of the Iraq.

In 1937 the Iraq Oil made 40% of the french Oil, that were about 2 million tons of oil per year of french oil from Iraq.

So shouldnt France get a piece of the Iraq oilcake in HOI4 too?

The USA and the Brits share the mexican oil in the game too, so when the brits and frenchies shared the iraq oil in reality, they could do it in a historical ww2 game too, dont u agree?

BTW, the french Oil company which grew up with this oildeal is today known as TOTAL.

Edit: So as we see France owned 25% of the oil of the Iraq, so cant we just change the oilfield of Mosul from british to french? So France would at least have some oil in the game too and the game would be more balanced.

 

[Emperor_Napoleon]

I assume the devs were not aware of this. Historically speaking, Britain is associated much more with Iraq than France is. Either that or it was just an oversight.

 

[Iskulya]

It can also be a balance thing. Doesn't really make sense to assign ownership to the French when in a historical game they will be destroyed and made unable to use it, unless there's an additional event that transfers control of all of it to the British in that case.

Does anyone have any figures on the historical numbers for crude extraction from Iraq and the proportion that was British owned vs French? I think that's the releavnt thing here.

 

[Crazy-Krauthead]

I assume the devs were not aware of this. Historically speaking, Britain is associated much more with Iraq than France is. Either that or it was just an oversight.

Aye it was, but as a part of the ww1 victorytreaties(the winner takes it all hehe) France just got a piece of the oilcake of iraq which became very important for the french oil production. Anyway it would be a nice balancing also

 

[Crazy-Krauthead]

It can also be a balance thing. Doesn't really make sense to assign ownership to the French when in a historical game they will be destroyed and made unable to use it, unless there's an additional event that transfers control of all of it to the British in that case.

Does anyone have any figures on the historical numbers for crude extraction from Iraq and the proportion that was British owned vs French? I think that's the releavnt thing here.

75% british, 25% french.

Making the Mosul oil french would fix it.

As I wrote 25% of the shares of the Turkish Petroleum Company belonged to a german company, after WW1 France got these shares, so it owned 25% of the later named Iraq Oil Company. BTW: The Brits owned the Iran(Persian) oil too, till the iran revolution 1979.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Petroleum_Company

The numbers of the shares in % are just found on the german wikipedia. Somehow we germans seem to love math and numbers more than others

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Petroleum_Company

50% of the shares were owned by BP(British Petrol),
25% by Shell(at this time the British part of the company-it was 40% british and 60% dutch) and
25% by the "Deutsche Bank" a german bank. After ww1 France got the shares of the german bank, although this bank was a private german company had nothing to do with the war. To make it clear the shares were not owned by the german empire, just by a german company. The French company which got these shares was later named TOTAL.

Later also 5% were hold by Mr.Five Percent Calouste Gulbenkian(The richest man of that time).

But wait that makes 105%, how can that be? Fun Fact: He bought 5% of BP, 5% of Shell and 5% of TOTAL, so he claimed that he owns 5% of the Iraq Oil Company

 

[Crazy-Krauthead]

edited

 

[Sn3ipen]

It can also be a balance thing. Doesn't really make sense to assign ownership to the French when in a historical game they will be destroyed and made unable to use it, unless there's an additional event that transfers control of all of it to the British in that case.

Does anyone have any figures on the historical numbers for crude extraction from Iraq and the proportion that was British owned vs French? I think that's the releavnt thing here.

Free France could use it after the mainland is occupied.

 

[Louella]

Should be possible. Might be a bit fiddly with scripting for France, Vichy France, Free France and all that, but I think it would work.

 

[Braedonnal]

50% of the shares were owned by BP(British Petrol),
25% by Shell(British) and
25% by the "Deutsche Bank" a german bank. after ww1 France got the shares of the german bank, although this bank was a private german company had nothing to do with the war. To make it clear the shares were not owned by the german empire, just by a german company. The French company which got these shares was later named TOTAL.

Later also 5% were hold by Mr.Five Percent Calouste Gulbenkian(The richest man of that time).

But wait that makes 105%, how can that be? Fun Fact: He bought 5% of BP, 5% of Shell and 5% of TOTAL, so he claimed that he owns 5% of the Iraq Oil Company

By the Red Line Agreement of 1928, this is completely superceded.

23.75% each to Anglo-Persian, Royal Dutch Shell, Compagnie Française des Pétroles (CFP) and the Near East Development Corporation (NEDC). Gulbenkian retained his 5% share. Anglo-Persian gained a 10% overriding royalty as compensation for losing half of its share in the company.

Basically, the oil in the region was divided evenly between the British, Dutch, French and Americans. Saying Royal Dutch Shell is British amuses me to no end...

 

[MobiusTwo]

The United Kingdom, among other nations, had control over significant oil concessions in Iran as well. It strikes me as odd that they went through the trouble to accurately represent the oil concessions in Iraq but not Iran. Hopefully they do this for Iran next.

 

[Jays298]

Since y'all are experts on oil, does it make sense that Germany and Italy are allowed to buy a lot of Iraq's and Iran's oil?

I'd like to see France have some off map or off Metropole (not in continental France) oil. Because it's kind of crippling to have to trade for it when their civilian economy is so dreadful.

Giving them some Iraqi oil seems like a good idea.

 

[Arthrodira]

Really it should be divided between the British, French, Americans, and Dutch. Granted France is the most in need of oil of the three, but even giving the French Mosul wouldn’t fix everything (it’d be better though).

besides, we still don’t have British control of Iranian oil (you knowthis little thing called BP...)

 

[Braedonnal]

Really it should be divided between the British, French, Americans, and Dutch. Granted France is the most in need of oil of the three, but even giving the French Mosul wouldn’t fix everything (it’d be better though).

besides, we still don’t have British control of Iranian oil (you knowthis little thing called BP...)

Agreed, it is France that suffers most. They have a large navy, significant air and sizable armor and motorized forces. I feel they could use the help as they have a hard enough time as it is.

 

[Dalnar]

They have hard time,which is exactly what Paradox wants. Because otherwise the German AI would not be able to conquer it.

 

[Crazy-Krauthead]

I dont have so much forumexperience than most others here so I have a question:

Will we get any feedback from Paradox to this Thread? Are there any official ppl in the forum following the gamediscussions?

 

[Crazy-Krauthead]

By the Red Line Agreement of 1928, this is completely superceded.

23.75% each to Anglo-Persian, Royal Dutch Shell, Compagnie Française des Pétroles (CFP) and the Near East Development Corporation (NEDC). Gulbenkian retained his 5% share. Anglo-Persian gained a 10% overriding royalty as compensation for losing half of its share in the company.

Basically, the oil in the region was divided evenly between the British, Dutch, French and Americans. Saying Royal Dutch Shell is British amuses me to no end...

Shell was founded 1833 in London. Its still sigened in the comercial register in London and was in this time named The Shell Transport and Trading Company p.l.c.. It fusioned 1907 with the ducth company Koninklijke Nederlandse Petroleum Maatschappij of Den Haag into Royal Dutch Shell Group. But in this group both companies stayed independent, just belonged to the same larger group. The dutch company of this fusion got renamed into Royal Dutch Petroleum Company. Only in the year 2005 they fusioned to one company: Royal Dutch Shell plc.

So when we speak of Shell in the 1930s we speak of the british company, or better said the british part of the group, not the dutch one, which was named Royal Dutch Petroleum Company in this time.

Sure its a complex company structure, but in the simple HOI4 economy it fits fine making the iraq oil british.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

We might need to wait for iraq and iran nation pack.
Just like in MtG, GB and USA had given the control of Mexican oils.
Giving France a little bit oil would not affect the French economy much though.

 

[Braedonnal]

Shell was founded 1833 in London. Its still sigened in the comercial register in London and was in this time named The Shell Transport and Trading Company p.l.c.. It fusioned 1907 with the ducth company Koninklijke Nederlandse Petroleum Maatschappij of Den Haag into Royal Dutch Shell Group. But in this group both companies stayed independent, just belonged to the same larger group. The dutch company of this fusion got renamed into Royal Dutch Petroleum Company. Only in the year 2005 they fusioned to one company: Royal Dutch Shell plc.

So when we speak of Shell in the 1930s we speak of the british company, or better said the british part of the group, not the dutch one, which was named Royal Dutch Petroleum Company in this time.

Sure its a complex company structure, but in the simple HOI4 economy it fits fine making the iraq oil british.

Some fascinating stuff honestly. They sort of merged but not quite and political forces in both countries kept them from truly merging, well, until 2005 that is. I tip my hat to you, sir, and I stand corrected.

The split is a bit tedious but Royal Dutch was responsible for the production and manufacture while Shell was responsible for transportation and storage. What is likely the best way about splitting it is along company lines. At the time of the merger, Royal Dutch received 60% of stock and Shell received 40%. Not that the Dutch particularly need the oil as Curacao takes care of their needs. If we can get Persia straightened out as well, Britain would be in good shape as well.

 

[klopkr]

I want to see more if not all of the resources actually controlled by the world powers in 'sovereign' nations represented. I thought this was just going to be a thing when I saw the mexico situation.

 

[Jays298]

They have hard time,which is exactly what Paradox wants. Because otherwise the German AI would not be able to conquer it.

I think Fuel was added to provide realism for the Axis powers because they basically lacked fuel. But for France it doesn't make sense.

I think France had their own oil industry so that's basically the issue. They should have more then enough oil and fuel to get thru to 1940.