I could make my peace with them if the relationship hit was -100, that way with a really good relationship you could still annex them, but damn if they don't take almost 20 years to get back to a point where you can do that normally.
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Yeah, I'd envisioned them as situational vassals for a border that you just want to secure, but not expand. E.g., Ottomans (or BYZ) generally find easier pickings in Africa, Mid-East, Central Asia. So a Balkan or Caucuses March may be useful. Likewise, Russia or Austria might want a March in Balkans or Caucuses while they focus on the HRE and Steppes.
But, no, if it's on your expansion path, they're worse than useless.
Are marches supposed to be a paid feature, because I got one in my game, but I don't have any DLC? Just the hotfix http://m.imgur.com/sdFghae
Of course marches are situational. I've made Milan a march in my Byzantine game. Since I can't be bothered to expand into Europe they're perfect. Wielding 50k troops of their own, keeping up in tech (they're even 1 Mil tech ahead of me) and whenever I'm at war with someone in Europe I simply let them handle it.
Wait...did you just...use your smartphone to take a snapshot of your screen? Try pressing F11. Afterwards open your \Documents\Paradox Interactive\Europa Universalis IV\Screenshots folder.
Wait...did you just...use your smartphone to take a snapshot of your screen? Try pressing F11. Afterwards open your \Documents\Paradox Interactive\Europa Universalis IV\Screenshots folder.
Tehe, phone had Internet at time, laptop, not so much... Or I could set a trend. Keke
If the manpower modifiers were tripled I might consider it. As it is you're looking at an extra 50 manpower a month. Given how horrible the AI is at managing manpower I think I can live without the barely 1 extra regiment every 2 years they could provide. I also consider the forcelimits and fort defense modifiers to be useless fluff. Diplomatic slots that can otherwise be used for real allies are too important to waste on incredibly minor bonuses.
utterly useless. If you feed them enough provinces, you get popup saying your march loses its march bonuses due to being too big. But they still are a march, and you still have to take -200 opinion hit when making them regular vassal, and after that you gotta wait 10 years to integrate them.
And they can't level up ideas if you take a march from start, they don't have the points to level their idea groups due to all the coring etc. Marches are maye useful after you released a country that has nice idea groups and good early on national traditions.
Early on? Useless, i say. If you make a country with a lot of -opinion modifiers a march, you can never integrate them anytime soon...
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-200 Opinion hit + Stab hit on removing march status is too much IMO. And losing march bonusses at 60 BT is a bit too early.
Sometimes marches stop generating claims, and this buggers me off completely. I my last Byz game I made a march out of Astrakhan to feed them with all those horde territories that belonged to Russia. They westernized, became Orthodox (I converted their capital before releasing), but didn't fabricate any single claim on Russia...
With vassal income bugged right now, there's no compelling reason not to convert every vassal you don't plan on annexing in the near future to a March.
Only time id consider a march tbh, was if id roleplay byzantium and wanted to keep georgia as a buffer.
I have found marches very useful in my aztec campaign. When you start, you get much more troops by having marches than annexing all the territories, so I only get the juicest provinces and leave them the rest making them marches. The income you get from mesoamerican nations as vassals is so low it doesn't matter if you loose it, you get more troops from allies than if you paid yours with your income and have a total sum much higher than if you conquered all the territories, wich is absolutely necessary to fight portuguese and spanish armies. The relationship malus of converting them into vassals again is no problem, really, there's no hurry in annexim them.
Yes, more troops than annexing, but only 20% more than vassalizing, it's almost 20 years before you can vassalize them in the normal course of events after you get the -200. That's very tough. Is the extra 2 men really worth it?
I gotta say that you guys just don't know how to play the game. Your all just blobbing.
You don't use marches to vassal feed and then annex. That is what vassals are for. And vassal feeding isn't very good unless you get the right idea groups for it now. If you just plan on blobbing then you get Admin ideas for reduced coring cost and just core everything - you only use vassal feeding for nations that have the increased coring cost, it still affects diplo points but its still better then coring. If your blobbing you just put your national focus on admin and away you go.
Marches are specifically to make a military vassal. I don't know where you guys get this idea that they you are supposed to blob these guys up and annex them later.
You turn nations with good military ideas into marches: Brandenburg, Poland, Ottomans, moldavia, ryzan, nepal, etc... You get them to 55-60 base tax and that's it.
You declare war and they send their troops.
With moldavia for example - they start with 10% morale and they get some more military bonus's in their ideas. You feed them some land and they contriubte alot of miltary support.
The reason you can turn them back into vassals is because in 100years things could change. It gives you some options.
You don't use marches to vassal feed and then annex. That is what vassals are for. And vassal feeding isn't very good unless you get the right idea groups for it now. If you just plan on blobbing then you get Admin ideas for reduced coring cost and just core everything - you only use vassal feeding for nations that have the increased coring cost, it still affects diplo points but its still better then coring. If your blobbing you just put your national focus on admin and away you go.
Marches are specifically to make a military vassal. I don't know where you guys get this idea that they you are supposed to blob these guys up and annex them later.
You turn nations with good military ideas into marches: Brandenburg, Poland, Ottomans, moldavia, ryzan, nepal, etc... You get them to 55-60 base tax and that's it.
You declare war and they send their troops.
With moldavia for example - they start with 10% morale and they get some more military bonus's in their ideas. You feed them some land and they contriubte alot of miltary support.
The reason you can turn them back into vassals is because in 100years things could change. It gives you some options.
If troops are more important than land, then yes. Also, 20 years is not that much for me, and with relationship bonuses it can be shortened. As the aztecs you value more the extra troops you get than the measle money and forcelimits you gain from extra land.
I've found them useful as buffers for directions into which I have no plans to expand, mostly because that direction hosts a scary enemy (often Russia).
Marches hold borders. Vassals are expansion units.
Marches hold borders. Vassals are expansion units.
Thanks for the kind words...yes, I don't know how to play the game, I bow to you. Do you stay a 2 province minor when you play? Do you look in one direction and say...ah no, never? I don't.
Marches and vassals act like any other AI when it comes to making claims. Typically they will make claims for provinces in their cultural region or against a rival. Even if you feed it a cored province to get a culture accepted by it, it usually won't make claims against that culture. For example, as PLC, my Moldavian Marchcreated claims on all Ottoman owned provinces in the Balkans that it bordered. It even took it a step further and would claim everything it could reach in Anatolia. By comparison, my Finland march simply would not make any claims on Swedish provinces. It would make claims on Russia though, I assume because it wanted to snake over to the Uralic culture area.
I'm torn on the way marches are implemented right now. They seem useful for a smaller nation that doesn't want to stress itself with an unaccepted culture, but once you reach a large enough size they outlive their usefulness but there is that huge penalty for revoking them to deal with. The bonuses like had been mentioned, are not really enough to give them much of an edge over a regular vassal.
And this is the key, the malus is too great for the benfits, which are, frankly, quite measly, unless Marches make more claims, but I haven't really experienced that, Bosnia (Vassal) claimed every province it could reach in Hungary, Circassia (March) claimed almost every province it could reach in the Horde, Karamon (Vassal), had one claim and made another so far. If Marches make more claims then it might be worth it.
As it stands, if I had converted, say, Bosnia to a March, they would get 1 more man. Yay!?