About Imperial Reconquest CB

[Unready]

IMHO Imperial Reconquest CB made in vain completely.
If I understand correctly, only Byzantium has it (at least as HR Emperor I do not see it in my CBs), and it applies not only to the de jure
Byzantium territory. Because when ERE attacks Rome with this CB it looks strange to put it mildly.

Especially if that ERE is not orthodox in my case, but Bogomils and do not aim to mend schism.
Also strange that the Pope can not summon allies.
Once I stood up for him, but after 10 years of ERE attacked again, and when I noticed it was too late.

 

[Bezborg]

I had a problem with the CB myself, Hungary conquered Wallachia, and it is in the de jure part of ERE, but I didn't get the Imp Reconquest CB for Wallachia against Hungary. Seemed strange...

 

[unmerged(533203)]

Completely agree. Personally I think it should only be applicable to territories boarding the ERE. Also I think it should only target lands held by Justinian I. Once its back to being the 'Roman Empire' it can be used against everyone else.

Although it does make for some fun instances. Such as after losing Greece to a Fatimid invasion, the ERE, relocated north through the years. Losing its southern lands, but gaining north until the ERE was basically the HRE under a different name.

 

[LongVin]

Completely agree. Personally I think it should only be applicable to territories boarding the ERE. Also I think it should only target lands held by Justinian I. Once its back to being the 'Roman Empire' it can be used against everyone else.

Although it does make for some fun instances. Such as after losing Greece to a Fatimid invasion, the ERE, relocated north through the years. Losing its southern lands, but gaining north until the ERE was basically the HRE under a different name.

Haha. That's awesome. Did they also convert to Catholicism?

 

[HabemusZlatan]

To be honest, it should target only Croatia and the duchies of Calabria and Apulia in Italy (Lands that the ERE controlled/Will controll after 1066) and maybe Venice in the west and should be available until Jerusalem in the east.
It should cover the entirety of the old Roman Empire only after forming it.

 

[Lamprey]

As for the CB being somewhat arbitrary, it only covers the territories that used to be part of the Roman empire - Spain, Gaul, some parts of Germany, Italy, Africa, England (up to Hadrian's wall I'd imagine, so no Scotland or Ireland). That should explain why this CB can be used on Rome, but not on Hungary.

I actually kind of like it, as it makes it easier to do what every Byzantine emperor dreamed of, and what Justinian partly achieved - reform the old Roman empire. But I do agree with the suggestion to make this option available only after the 'original' Byzantine empire lands have been taken back from the Muslims: think Byzantine empire in 476, when the western half fell.

Otherwise people will do what I did in my Alexiad game: being too weak to take on the Fatimids/Rum/Seljuks, I ganked Sicily, Africa and sourthern Italy first before curbstomping the Fatimids.

 

[Bezborg]

I actually got the CB against Hungary for Belgrade (Rashka), but not on Wallachia when Hunqary had it (both are de jure Byzantium). Seems like a lot is going on "behind the map" that I don't see

 

[Malvius]

Imperial Conquest enables to conquer back the countrys, the Roman Empire had before the Splitting.
Thats the Reason you can conquer Iberia.

 

[kal56]

I kind of think this should build up gradually, for example if I retake southern Italy then I unlock the duchies directly to the north.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

the only gripe i have with teh imperial conquest CB is that its unable to be used against muslims for whatever reason. Means i HAVE to holy war the turks if i want to take anything more than one province. Heck the byzantines didnt really believe in holy war.

I do think the imperial conquest CB should focus on traditional ERE areas(add scility and the south part of italy) then after the old ERE areas are reconquered then it adds the WRE areas

 

[Federalist girl]

Yeah, I agree that the ERE should have to restore the East before going West... but the fact that the CB doesn't even work against Muslims is probably what prevents the AI from doing that.

 

[Hootieleece]

It definitely needs to be tweaked.The CB should definitely work against the Moslems if they hold Areas that are De Jure ERE.(Anatolia,Syria,Armenia, Egypt, etc.)

As for Hungary not being subject to CB.Roman province of Dacia, anyone.....and where the name Romania comes from.

The CB should not unlock against Western Powers until Roman Empire Restored Decision is enacted.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

It definitely needs to be tweaked.The CB should definitely work against the Moslems if they hold Areas that are De Jure ERE.(Anatolia,Syria,Armenia, Egypt, etc.)

As for Hungary not being subject to CB.Roman province of Dacia, anyone.....and where the name Romania comes from.

The CB should not unlock against Western Powers until Roman Empire Restored Decision is enacted.

This.
Luckily, apparently it's easy to mod that by yourself.

I'd go with these territories being affected by the Imperial Reconquest CB, since they were lost not very long before the start date. It should also include Venice, Sicily and Sardinia though.

Or it could include the whole Levant, Egypt and Tunisia in exchange of the Holy War CB (available only after mending the schism), dunno.

 

[Ruwaard]

Yeah, I agree that the ERE should have to restore the East before going West... but the fact that the CB doesn't even work against Muslims is probably what prevents the AI from doing that.

It definitely needs to be tweaked.The CB should definitely work against the Moslems if they hold Areas that are De Jure ERE.(Anatolia,Syria,Armenia, Egypt, etc.)

As for Hungary not being subject to CB.Roman province of Dacia, anyone.....and where the name Romania comes from.

The CB should not unlock against Western Powers until Roman Empire Restored Decision is enacted.

I agree the CB against the Western Catholic Powers should only unlock after the East is regained, before being able to go after Rome and reform the Empire.

Furthermore other empires could get a similar CB, but on a smaller scale; for instance the Holy Roman Empire could get such CB's for the kingdoms of Burgundy and Italy, which due to elective issues aren't a part of the de jure HRE.

Regarding Hungary, what about Pannonia?

 

[DisgruntledLemming]

I think the CB should work in stages. Imperial Reconquest should only work after ALL Byzzie de jure territory has been taken, and then they only get it against a certain region at a time, in regards to priorities like, take out the nearby Muslims in ex-Roman Territory (ie Egypt, Syria, North Africa, if you're feeling generous, down to Baghdad) and then get the Imperial Reconquest on kingdoms like Croatia, then Sicily, but one at a time, or a couple at a time, so you aren't going after England while Southern Italy is still in Muslim control, and so on and so forth.

 

[unmerged(527492)]

From an RP stand point, the exclusion of the IR CB against Muslims makes no sense to me.

I mean, the "Casus Belli" to me, means "this is why our war is justified." The Imperial Reconquest CB is sort of a blunt hammer justification: "THIS LAND WAS ROMAN! AND ROMAN AGAIN IT SHALL BE!" It makes no sense to me that this justification is any less valid in the eyes of Europe because a foreigner is a Muslim rather than a Christian.

 

[Ioustinos]

The Holy War CB is already the exact same thing with the addition of religious intervention for the defender. What's the problem?

 

[Alexandre_007]

actually, having the holy war causus belli and not the imperial conquest one when fighting against muslims, make the work a bit harder.

 

[Federalist girl]

From an RP stand point, the exclusion of the IR CB against Muslims makes no sense to me.

I mean, the "Casus Belli" to me, means "this is why our war is justified." The Imperial Reconquest CB is sort of a blunt hammer justification: "THIS LAND WAS ROMAN! AND ROMAN AGAIN IT SHALL BE!" It makes no sense to me that this justification is any less valid in the eyes of Europe because a foreigner is a Muslim rather than a Christian.

The Muslims might even find it more believable -- at least THEY were willing to call the ERE "Roman."

 

[Ruwaard]

The Muslims might even find it more believable -- at least THEY were willing to call the ERE "Roman."

Well just like in the later conflicts between the Pope and the Holy Roman Emperor (some could call that ironic), the term Roman also had a symbolic meaning by then. Initially the king of the Romans and king of the Germans were both used in the HRE, but when the Pope starting to deny that and only use king of the Germans, then the king of the Romans (and Germans) started to consequently use king of the Romans, also to underline his position as (HR)emperor-elect.

In a way the usage of 'Franks' and 'Greeks' also had a lot of symbolism and are kind of diplomatic insults. Furthermore the word Roman in Holy Roman also (by origin) is connected to Roman Catholicism; and seeing someone as not proper Roman is also connected to the Great Schism.