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Efimer

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I often realize that the game sets up historical nations in wrong places, usually as released nations in peace treaties. From my observations, the game probably keeps a list of releasable nation tags (names) for every culture (or culture group) (if someone has better information correct me, please) and, when it needs one tag it randomly picks one from the corresponding list. Apparently, when a historical nation disappears, its tag becomes available in the corresponding cultural list of releasable nation tags, so it could reappear in a different place of the map.

The criterion used by the game to set up the culture of the released nations is obscure. Sometimes it matches rightly the main culture in the area, usually it matches rightly the main culture group in the area and, sometimes it just doesn’t match cultures at all. Besides, the tag usually doesn’t make sense, from a historical point of view, in that geographical area and that is a problem.

A solution could be that every territory keeps 1 (or more) labels telling which nation pertains to that territory. These labels would be set at the game start and could be changed, removed or added during the play. The circumstances that would result in any change of labels in a territory should be historically appropriate.

If a nation is conquered, its territories should keep the label so the game will know where to release it if it becomes necessary in the future.

New labels could be added to territories through migration, settlement and assimilation.

The labels don’t need to be explicitly visible in the territory window. You only need to know about available releasable nations in an area when negotiating a peace deal.

About the tags (nation names), not all of them have to be culture-based. Rome and Carthage tags for example, should be tied to the corresponding cities and untied, imo, to the main culture in the area. It’s also convenient to have available regional or dynastic tags untied to cultures (currently in the game, I think).

Since some people is sensitive to the word core I’ve avoided its use in the post :cool:
 
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manager2525

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I see nothing wrong with giving the game some sort of "cores" mechanism.
This is especially important since we have a lot of city states and states that are defined geographically. In this way we can avoid Massilia being created in Menethei Limin and Macedon in Cyprus.
To be honest in my latest runs I do not see so strange tag creation I don't know if the devs have made any changes there or if it was just luck.
 

EricMN93

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I find the cores a good idea. Perhaps it could also be used to give another name to a nation that has lost the capital that gives it its name for a long time.

Example: If Carthage loses its capital for 100 years or more, is that civilization still Carthage?
 

Trin Tragula

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The way it works right now is it picks a tag of an appropriate culture that existed previously and that had claims on the area being released and which also had its capital in that area.

The capital bit was introduced in 1.4, before this interesting but not very attractive things like Egypt being released in Greece was possible (this change is most likely the reason @manager2525 is seeing less weird stuff).
When no previously existing country existed in an area it will create a new one on the fly using the name of the province the capital is in. If that’s already taken it uses the capital name. If that’s also somehow taken it’ll start doing other things like “Macedonian Thrace” (Using culture+province) etc.

In peace deals it will only let you release previously existing countries, and will obey the rule that they have to include their capitals, but they will then also include all land that country had claims on, which sometimes results in bigger countries than one might remember.
 
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Efimer

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... The capital bit was introduced in 1.4...

I forgot to tell in the OP that I'm currently playing with v1.3

... The way it works right now is it picks a tag of an appropriate culture that existed previously and that had claims on the area being released and which also had its capital in that area...
... In peace deals it will only let you release previously existing countries, and will obey the rule that they have to include their capitals...

Thank you. The rule of including the last capital seems very sound to avoid striking inconsistencies.
Does the game remember all the capitals a nation has had or only the last?
It would be useful to know the existing tag claims or releasable tags for territories to plan wars and peace deals suitably.
 
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DC123456789

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The way it works right now is it picks a tag of an appropriate culture that existed previously and that had claims on the area being released and which also had its capital in that area.

The capital bit was introduced in 1.4, before this interesting but not very attractive things like Egypt being released in Greece was possible (this change is most likely the reason @manager2525 is seeing less weird stuff).
When no previously existing country existed in an area it will create a new one on the fly using the name of the province the capital is in. If that’s already taken it uses the capital name. If that’s also somehow taken it’ll start doing other things like “Macedonian Thrace” (Using culture+province) etc.

In peace deals it will only let you release previously existing countries, and will obey the rule that they have to include their capitals, but they will then also include all land that country had claims on, which sometimes results in bigger countries than one might remember.

Is there any chance of getting the released-with-all-claims changed to released-with-all-previously-owned-territories (assuming actual cores are not going to be added, which I suppose is fair)? It would make it a little less weird, I think.