Abghazians? (and so other cultures)

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I have some questions about Abghazians, or Abkhazians:

1.Did the Abghazians have any important role in the CK period, or is it just because the Abghazian Kingdom they're in the game?

2.Are they related to the Cumans?
Because they're represented by the Cumans in the game.

3.Why is the Abghazian names in the game exactly the same as the Arab?

I ask these questions because I know practically nothing about the Medieval Abkhazians, and they do have a culture tag, which I need.

Some other questions:

4.Were the Pechenegs really the majority of modern day Romania in 1066?

5.Are the Pechenegs closely related to any of the Turkic cultures in the game?

6.Did the Kurds rule their own territories in this period, or were the Kurds ruled by others back then too?

7.Should the Komis be Finnish or Lappish in the game?

I hope I can get some answers to my questions, and there will maybe be more of them in the future.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Check the culture mod, a lot of your questions are answered there.

 

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1. & 3. Abghazian culture isn't really being used in the game, though it was used in place of Arab way back in 1.01 or 1.02. That's why the name lists are very similiar.

2. No idea, though I think they are more related to Georgians.

4. Yes.

5. To Cumans, who are a Turkic people.

6. There wasn't any "nation states" back then or any clear sense of nationality. Sometimes local chiefs ruling over Kurdic areas probably were Kurdic in ancestry and some famous historical rulers of other places have been Kurds.

7. Probably more accurate as Lappish, since Lappish culture (in vanilla scenarios) represents Samoyeds and other people like that too.

 

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1.Did the Abghazians have any important role in the CK period, or is it just because the Abghazian Kingdom they're in the game?

Not really, they were already united and most of them assimilated into Georgians during CK period.

2.Are they related to the Cumans?

No. Cumans are Turkic/Turkish tribe while Abkhazians are more related to Indo-Iranian people such as Alans/Ossetians.

3.Why is the Abghazian names in the game exactly the same as the Arab?

They were used for Muslims in N.Africa and Middle East.

4.Were the Pechenegs really the majority of modern day Romania in 1066?

Not really...Pechenegs lived and were majority mainly in present day Moldavia and parts of todays western Ukraine...however Wallachia was also part of their dominion as well.

5.Are the Pechenegs closely related to any of the Turkic cultures in the game?

Pechenegs and Cumans are both Turkic/Turkish tribes...they were very closely related not only to each other but also to Khazars, Oghurs and also Seljuks and Ottomans.

6.Did the Kurds rule their own territories in this period, or were the Kurds ruled by others back then too?

I'da say they didn't rule. They posibbly acted as generals and leaders but real rulers were Arabs and Turks....the only Kurdish ruler I know of is Saladin.

7.Should the Komis be Finnish or Lappish in the game?

It really depends on you...I personally feel that they should be Finnish.

 

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Were the Pechenegs the majority of modern Romania in 1066 or not?
Then the descendents of the Dacians must have been a minority, which sounds quite hard for me to believe.

And the thing with Lappish, is that it's more accurate to use Lappish, but it works better with Finnish, because of the lack of Lappish names, so I think I'll have the Samoyeds and Komis Lappish.
But should the different Finno-Ugric minorities of Russia be Finnish? I think that's best (but it would be better with an Uralic culture though ...)

And the best definition to question 6 is:
Did Kurdish speaking and Kurdish named people rule?

But if Cumans and Pechenegs are closely related, can't you make the Pechenegs Cuman then, and maybe rename Cuman to something else?
(I really need some free tags, except the "classic" ones, if you get what I mean)

And Abkhazian (Abghazian) is not related to Georgian.

A new question:

7.Is there any historical name for the modern Czech people, the united Bohemians and Moravians? It should also include Slovakians.
Because Bohemian only (if you're going to be totally correct) refers to the people of Bohemia, and not the Moravians, which are today both a part of the Czech culture.

 

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"Czechoslovaks"? "Moravians"?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Did Kurdish speaking and Kurdish named people rule?

Well Saladin and his relatives, the Ayyubids certainly would have spoken kurdish since they were kurds, but in general they would have talked arabic.

But if Cumans and Pechenegs are closely related, can't you make the Pechenegs Cuman then, and maybe rename Cuman to something else?

Yes you can merge their and call the culture Turkic or Turkish or Kipchak. But remember that it is a so called 'dark' culture, so you can't use it for a christian/western culture, since the sprites and character images will look arabic/turkish

7.Is there any historical name for the modern Czech people, the united Bohemians and Moravians? It should also include Slovakians.
Because Bohemian only (if you're going to be totally correct) refers to the people of Bohemia, and not the Moravians, which are today both a part of the Czech culture.

I don't know of any historical name for this combined culture. I doubt there even was a common name for them except maybe western-slavic, but that also include the Polish and other slavic people living in the area (Wends and Pommeranians and so on). Some people want the culture split into Bohemian and Moravian (the latter includes most of modern day Slovakia) and some have them as 1 culture named bohemian, which as you point out is not correct.

 

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Were the Pechenegs the majority of modern Romania in 1066 or not?
Then the descendents of the Dacians must have been a minority, which sounds quite hard for me to believe.

Thery were not...I already pointed it out to you. Vlachs were great majority in both Transylvania(which is Hungary) and in future to be Wallachia. Pechenegs were based more to the north in Moldavia. Later when the Pechenegs were defeated(in 1091) most of them were assimilated into Cumans or were slaughtered. Some fled to Hungary and some to Byzantium where they also assimilated. Later the Cumans also were facing destruction by the invading tatars(Mongols) and they too were mainly slaughtered or migrated deeper into Vlachphone and Hungarian lands where they assimilated.

But should the different Finno-Ugric minorities of Russia be Finnish? I think that's best (but it would be better with an Uralic culture though ...)

I think they should all be Finnish....I mean it's ridiculous to have separate Lappish tag when they were basically indisintguishable from other Finnish tribes except those only in the far to the north which are not represented in the CK map.

But if Cumans and Pechenegs are closely related, can't you make the Pechenegs Cuman then, and maybe rename Cuman to something else?
(I really need some free tags, except the "classic" ones, if you get what I mean)

Yes you can...I personally think that both Cuman and Pecheneg should be removed and merged with Turkish tag while Pecheneg and Cuman tag used for something else.

And Abkhazian (Abghazian) is not related to Georgian.

No one said anything that it is. As I pointed out Abkhazians are related to Alans/Ossetians but it's a fact that most of Abkhazians assimilated into Georgians even during CK timeframe.

7.Is there any historical name for the modern Czech people, the united Bohemians and Moravians? It should also include Slovakians.
Because Bohemian only (if you're going to be totally correct) refers to the people of Bohemia, and not the Moravians, which are today both a part of the Czech culture.

Czechs = Bohemians
Slovaks and Moravians = Moravian Slavs/Moravians

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I think they should all be Finnish....I mean it's ridiculous to have separate Lappish tag when they were basically indisintguishable from other Finnish tribes except those only in the far to the north which are not represented in the CK map.

This is of course FINELLACH personal opinion and not shared by many other.

EDIT
Don't want anybody to turn in it's grave

 

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This is of course Finnellach personal opinion and not shared by many other.

Isn't it obvious?

Btw. it's FINELLACH not FINNELLACH nor FINNELACH, etc... o
Tolkien is turning in his grave...

 

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I must say, I think Lappish should be a separate tag (since it is, but if it shouldn't have been, I whouldn't bother making it).

I don't think Cuman and/or Pecheneg should be merged with Turkish. You could call them Turkic, but not Turkish.

I know Pechenegs are a "dark" culture, by the way.
I really would need some European tags with Eastern Slavic or Western Slavic soldiers, but sadly enough I can't make them ...

And if you're going to have a "Slovene" culture, should it really be called Carthinian (or what it's called)?
I think it's a bit Ancient, and the Slovenes were mentioned in the CK period, and then called Slovenes.

 

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I don't think Cuman and/or Pecheneg should be merged with Turkish. You could call them Turkic, but not Turkish.

I already elbaroted more than enough on this. I'll just say that if you have Cuman and Pecheneg separate tags then you must also have separate Kahazr and Oghuric tag which we don't...thus merger is the only solution to fix this ridiculous situation.

I really would need some European tags with Eastern Slavic or Western Slavic soldiers, but sadly enough I can't make them ...

There is E.Slavic tag which is currently not used by beta CK patches.

And if you're going to have a "Slovene" culture, should it really be called Carthinian (or what it's called)?
I think it's a bit Ancient, and the Slovenes were mentioned in the CK period, and then called Slovenes.

Slovene is a modern term and a pretty generic one. I see it as wrong term for the period.

 

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I already elbaroted more than enough on this. I'll just say that if you have Cuman and Pecheneg separate tags then you must also have separate Kahazr and Oghuric tag which we don't...thus merger is the only solution to fix this ridiculous situation.

There is E.Slavic tag which is currently not used by beta CK patches.

Slovene is a modern term and a pretty generic one. I see it as wrong term for the period.

No, I meant that Pechenegs and Cumans should be merged, but not merged into Turkish. I hope you understand.

Is there a Eastern Slavic tag? How and why?

But just as Carthinian is, I think it's better with Slovene, at least 1150-1453,
because Slovenes (as Slovenes) were mentioned in the 10th century, so I think you can call them Slovenes in the game.

8.What about Low German culture?
Because it's better than German, and the Norse isn't used (I don't use it, because they have Vikings), and I suppose the Low Germans did have similar warriors, because both the Saxons and the Norse cultures use them, so I think it's perfect. I can't see any other uses for a Viking tag, because there no need for a Norse culture in the game (except small ones, like Scanian ).
But I guess you'll disagree on this.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Eastern slavic tag is in the game just as as the Norse tag.

Why it is in the game I don't know, it just is. You can use it to split the south slavic culture in say Croatians, Serbians, Bulgarians, Carantians (Slovenes) or use it for Moravian.

You can use the Norse for the low german/low saxon/saxon/frisian culture

Another use for the norse tag is to use it for all the scandinavian cultures (swedes/danish and norwegian).

 

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No, I meant that Pechenegs and Cumans should be merged, but not merged into Turkish. I hope you understand.

Your choice...

But just as Carthinian is, I think it's better with Slovene, at least 1150-1453,
because Slovenes (as Slovenes) were mentioned in the 10th century, so I think you can call them Slovenes in the game.

Not really. Slovene is actually generic name for slavic people. Moravian Slavs also called themselves Slavs. Both Slovenes and Slovaks today call themselves 'Slovensko' which basically means 'Slavs'.
Carantanian is more specific and fits the period.

8.What about Low German culture?
Because it's better than German, and the Norse isn't used (I don't use it, because they have Vikings), and I suppose the Low Germans did have similar warriors, because both the Saxons and the Norse cultures use them, so I think it's perfect. I can't see any other uses for a Viking tag, because there no need for a Norse culture in the game (except small ones, like Scanian ).
But I guess you'll disagree on this.

Low German and High German were different but not so much as for example was Frisian. If you divide German then you also must divide Italian.

 

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The reason why I thought of creating the Low German culture is because I doesn't use the Norse one (because of the Vikings). You maybe should split the Italian culture too, but there's the problem with tags again. It would fit in the game, because both Frankish and Occitan exists, but I still don't want to spend a tag on it. Sadly, but true.
And the Low Germans are so much more similar to the Norse people than the High Germans (quite logical), so I thought it would give Northern Germany a more regional (and Nordic) touch.

 

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It would only create a paradoxal situation.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

If you want to split German culture, which is defendable, you should not name it high and low german, those are names later 'invented' by the historians to differentiate the culture.

I would suggest to ad a culture named 'Saxon' in the northern parts of Germany + Ost-Friesland and maybe even Gelre. The German culture can then represens the high german culture. To differentiate the Saxons in Germany fromt he Saxons in England you can name the Saxon in England, Anglo-Saxons.

Here is a list of (low)-saxon names

lowsaxon;female;Adalgard
lowsaxon;female;Adalwich
lowsaxon;female;Adela
lowsaxon;female;Adelhade
lowsaxon;female;Bernswind
lowsaxon;female;Didla
lowsaxon;female;Evesa
lowsaxon;female;Gerbirga
lowsaxon;female;Gerhilda
lowsaxon;female;Gertrud
lowsaxon;female;Heilwiva
lowsaxon;female;Irmingard
lowsaxon;female;Irmintrud
lowsaxon;female;Liudwer
lowsaxon;female;Lutgarda
lowsaxon;female;Madalgard
lowsaxon;female;Maginfrid
lowsaxon;female;Maginhild
lowsaxon;female;Mathildis
lowsaxon;female;Odilgard
lowsaxon;female;Oza
lowsaxon;female;Rudwicha
lowsaxon;female;Sigardis
lowsaxon;female;Theodlinda
lowsaxon;female;Werenhild
lowsaxon;female;Wicburga
lowsaxon;male;Adalbald
lowsaxon;male;Adalbert
lowsaxon;male;Adalwin
lowsaxon;male;Adalwulf
lowsaxon;male;Adelard
lowsaxon;male;Albhard
lowsaxon;male;Albric
lowsaxon;male;Anselm
lowsaxon;male;Arnwald
lowsaxon;male;Arnwulf
lowsaxon;male;Aselin
lowsaxon;male;Azzo
lowsaxon;male;Baldric
lowsaxon;male;Barthold
lowsaxon;male;Bernhard
lowsaxon;male;Biligrim
lowsaxon;male;Bodo
lowsaxon;male;Burghard
lowsaxon;male;Cunrad
lowsaxon;male;Dago
lowsaxon;male;Eberhard
lowsaxon;male;Eberwin
lowsaxon;male;Eckebert
lowsaxon;male;Eckehard
lowsaxon;male;Egelbert
lowsaxon;male;Egilhard
lowsaxon;male;Folkhard
lowsaxon;male;Fridbert
lowsaxon;male;Fridric
lowsaxon;male;Gebehard
lowsaxon;male;Gerbald
lowsaxon;male;Gerbert
lowsaxon;male;Gerbrand
lowsaxon;male;Gerhard
lowsaxon;male;Germund
lowsaxon;male;Gerwald
lowsaxon;male;Giselbert
lowsaxon;male;Godfrid
lowsaxon;male;Godlin
lowsaxon;male;Godscalc
lowsaxon;male;Godwin
lowsaxon;male;Grimbald
lowsaxon;male;Hademar
lowsaxon;male;Hardbert
lowsaxon;male;Heilbert
lowsaxon;male;Heinric
lowsaxon;male;Herman
lowsaxon;male;Herwin
lowsaxon;male;Hildibald
lowsaxon;male;Hugo
lowsaxon;male;Isinbald
lowsaxon;male;Landfrid
lowsaxon;male;Liodulf
lowsaxon;male;Liudbert
lowsaxon;male;Liudger
lowsaxon;male;Maggo
lowsaxon;male;Marchard
lowsaxon;male;Marcward
lowsaxon;male;Meinhard
lowsaxon;male;Odbald
lowsaxon;male;Odbert
lowsaxon;male;Odulf
lowsaxon;male;Otto
lowsaxon;male;Radbald
lowsaxon;male;Radbert
lowsaxon;male;Radger
lowsaxon;male;Radwald
lowsaxon;male;Raginher
lowsaxon;male;Raginwald
lowsaxon;male;Rudbert
lowsaxon;male;Ruderik
lowsaxon;male;Rudger
lowsaxon;male;Rudwulf
lowsaxon;male;Segefrid
lowsaxon;male;Sigbert
lowsaxon;male;Sigher
lowsaxon;male;Thiadbald
lowsaxon;male;Thiadher
lowsaxon;male;Thiadulf
lowsaxon;male;Thiederic
lowsaxon;male;Udo
lowsaxon;male;Unger
lowsaxon;male;Uthelric
lowsaxon;male;Waldbert
lowsaxon;male;Waldfrid
lowsaxon;male;Waldher
lowsaxon;male;Waldric
lowsaxon;male;Werenher
lowsaxon;male;Wermund
lowsaxon;male;Widukin
lowsaxon;male;Wigbald
lowsaxon;male;Wilhelm
lowsaxon;male;Wilric
lowsaxon;male;Wulfbald
lowsaxon;male;Wulfhard

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well that is the real problem with the german culture, once you start splitting the Germans, you can't really stop with just the Saxons. You must then really also have the Franconians (Franken), Swabians(Allemanians), Bavarians (Bajuvarians).

A name, but that is just something I made up now, would be Ost-fränkish. Or Eastfrankish. Not that, that was ever the name of a culture but rather more the name of the Kingdom of Germany (Ost-Franken) before it became known as Germany

BTW Finellach, since the Grand Culture Mod seems to be on a standstill, could you post a list of Moravian first names on the forum or PM me ?

I still have a spare-tag and I want to use it. And since now yet has posted a list of that other Gaelic culture, I will ad Moravian to my own game.


EDIT
Hé, where did this post go ?

Yes but having 'German' stand for Old High Germand seems then even more wrong. I do not dispute the fact they should be one, but the name is just wrong.

I am asking what would you call this language/culture? Alemannian? Franconian? Bavarian?
__________________

 

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I've deleted my post because I did some quick research and realized that modern-day German(High German) is direct "progeny" of Old High German(Alemannic, Austro-Bavarian, Franconian, etc.) so 'German' would not be so wrong...in fact it would be the best name as opposed to what I said...so I correct myself.

Moravian names:

westernslavic;female;Adela
westernslavic;female;Alena
westernslavic;female;Alzbeta
westernslavic;female;Anezka
westernslavic;female;Blanka 
westernslavic;female;Bozena
westernslavic;female;Bronislava
westernslavic;female;Dobromila
westernslavic;female;Eliska
westernslavic;female;Eva
westernslavic;female;Hana
westernslavic;female;Helena
westernslavic;female;Ivana
westernslavic;female;Jana 
westernslavic;female;Jiteka
westernslavic;female;Judita
westernslavic;female;Katarina
westernslavic;female;Klara
westernslavic;female;Kvetoslava
westernslavic;female;Libuse
westernslavic;female;Lucie
westernslavic;female;Ludmila
westernslavic;female;Maria
westernslavic;female;Magdalena
westernslavic;female;Marica
westernslavic;female;Mariana
westernslavic;female;Marketa
westernslavic;female;Martina
westernslavic;female;Milena
westernslavic;female;Miroslava
westernslavic;female;Monika
westernslavic;female;Pavla
westernslavic;female;Petrana
westernslavic;female;Petronela
westernslavic;female;Radana
westernslavic;female;Radka
westernslavic;female;Slavka
westernslavic;female;Svatava
westernslavic;female;Verena 
westernslavic;female;Zdena
westernslavic;female;Zivana 
westernslavic;female;Zora
westernslavic;female;Zoroslava
westernslavic;male;Bedrich
westernslavic;male;Branislav
westernslavic;male;Bohuslav
westernslavic;male;Boleslav
westernslavic;male;Borivoj
westernslavic;male;Bretislav
westernslavic;male;Bystrik
westernslavic;male;Ctibor
westernslavic;male;Ctislav
westernslavic;male;Daniel
westernslavic;male;Frano
westernslavic;male;Ihrzhi
westernslavic;male;Jakub
westernslavic;male;Jan
westernslavic;male;Jindirch
westernslavic;male;Jiri
westernslavic;male;Juraj
westernslavic;male;Konrád
westernslavic;male;Kristian
westernslavic;male;Lukas
westernslavic;male;Marek
westernslavic;male;Martin
westernslavic;male;Matej
westernslavic;male;Melichar
westernslavic;male;Mikulas
westernslavic;male;Milan
westernslavic;male;Miloslav
westernslavic;male;Miroslav
westernslavic;male;Mojmir
westernslavic;male;Oldrich
westernslavic;male;Ondrej
westernslavic;male;Ota
westernslavic;male;Pavol
westernslavic;male;Petr
westernslavic;male;Premysl
westernslavic;male;Prokop
westernslavic;male;Raduz
westernslavic;male;Rastislav
westernslavic;male;Samuel
westernslavic;male;Slavata
westernslavic;male;Svatoboj
westernslavic;male;Svatopluk
westernslavic;male;Václav
westernslavic;male;Viliam
westernslavic;male;Vít
westernslavic;male;Vitazoslav
westernslavic;male;Vladimir
westernslavic;male;Vladislav
westernslavic;male;Vratislav
westernslavic;male;Vratko