AARland Gazette Discussion and Feedback Thread!

[Secret Master]

Amric: Always a good ramble coming from you. Interestingly, I'm glad that I live in the present day. Otherwise, I would live in the stinky section of town, which is to say any part except where the rich people live.

BTW, the image of a six foot tall mongol riding a horse from the steppes was just hilarious. :rofl:

coz: You said something I felt like quoting again.

I try not to present any extraneous information that has no bearing on the plot, nor do I present any character that does not play a role in the larger picture.

The best advice you can ever give a writer. You could put that in your sig and it would still be good advice even after a year.

frog: Your article reminded me of something a scholar mentioned (in passing) regarding why Shakespeare is such a good writer. He said that it is impossible to find any character in Shakespeare's plays that could even resemble Shakespeare himself. It's almost like there is no author, just the works themselves. This lends them a powerful quality, and I would agree with you that you do a writAAR a minor insult to imply that they are writing about themselves.

estonianzulu: A nice overview of solo/collaborative AARs. Having done both, I can concur with you and say they are very different experiences.

 

[Director]

Sorry that there's nothing from me this time but frankly I've been too ill to write. An excellent issue, I thought, with some good nuggets from everyone.

I hope to be back in harness for the next issue, and to return to 'Recommended Reading'. Also, I've been proselytizing on another writer or two and hope we can convince them to share their thoughts with us.

I quite agree with frogbeastegg that it is a mistake to assume that a character is nothing but the writer in disguise. Much as it offends an actor to be confused with a role, eh, coz1? Nonetheless, it is good advice to 'Write what you know' - and I have found it profitable to force myself to tackle things I know nothing about, if only for the research and experience. Has anyone an anecdote to share about writing a character who is foreign to their own morals, ethics and experience? Perhaps that's a topic for an article to come.


Thank you very much for the promotion, though I can't agree I've done so very much. I do enjoy lecturing - ummm - corresponding with you ladies and gentlemen.

I've been toying with reviving 'Author's Choice' for some time, but haven't had the time & energy. Nor, frankly, has there been any clamor for it. So if you want to adopt the poor orphan, coz1, do so with my blessing.

 

[stnylan]

A very interesting issue. I still haven't had the chance to read frogbeastegg's offering this time around properly - snuffling too much to cope with the length I'm afraid!

On SM excellent piece on love in stories though I offer one thought. The problem with the close friendship idea of "love" is that these days it that too many try to turn such instances into something repressed and/or pitiful. Take the action on the part of some to make Frodo and Sam gay - there is an incomprehension that two men can have a close, loving, non-sexual, and not sexually orientated relationship.

A second thought - how about love for something non-human? In olden times, and still in some today, there is a very personal, and real, love of God. Perhaps a love of country - there is that Nelson quote in Master and Commander (book and film - "love of country keeps him warm"). How best to work through such a love, without coming across as equally staid/emotionless as the more personal varieties?

 

[Machiavellian]

Adding to Stnylan's excellent comment, there is also the classic love for a man and his dog. (or anyone and their pet) I believe that there was even a twilight zone where a man and his dog were walking along a road in the afterlife and they came to what seemed to be the gates of heaven, but the gatekeeper wouldn't let the dog in. So, the man, who very much loved his trusty companion decided to just keep on walking. Of course, it being the twilight zone that gate turned out to be hell and they later came upon the real gates to heaven, where of course all good dogs go.

 

[Secret Master]

stnylan: Yeah, close male friendships are sadly difficult to deal with these days. I'm not sure where to place the blame, as it has been a staple of "manliness" (in the US at least) that expressing feelings towards other men has been taboo for far longer than pop theories about over-arching homosexuality. Even I have a hard time exorcising that spectre when reading or watching my favorite Shakespeare comedy, Twelfth Night. It's a pity, really, and other than mental discipline, I don't know how to work around it when reading. I can't even tell you how to write around it.

On a related note, you mentioned Sam and Frodo. One thing I like in the novel is that they don't feel the least bit homosexual. They are just good friends united in a common cause, whose friendship deepens as they suffer (something quite normal, I might add). Tolkien pulls it off rather well; however, I think that Elijah Woods' acting tended to give a slightly effiminate feel to Frodo's character in the movie, resulting in more than one remark about gayness. On the other hand, I think Sam was done perfectly in the movie (can't remember that actor's name).

Love for non-human objects: now there's a tricky subject. Some might argue that there is no genuine love for non-human objects. If it ain't a human being, then you're not loving it. I disagree with that, but only on the grounds that one can feel a love for any object that has personhood. We humans have a knack for ascribing personhood to non-human things all the time. Many Christians (and perhaps many Jews and Muslims, though I am not knowledgable enough about their theologies to say this with certainty) give their God personhood, even beyond the personhood of Christ. It is a complex sort of personhood that is not directly interactable, but it by giving the divine the status of "person," you can have a loving relationship with it. For some people, pets are the same way. They feel real grief when their pets suffer, because they have given some level of personhood to that pet.

Hmmm, but how to write it? Aye, there's the rub. I'll think on it for a bit, and if I don't come up with a good answer in a week, then in two weeks I guess I'll have another column.

 

[Amric]

Well I posted my article early since I had to type it all in late last night. I had hand written it like three weeks ago.

 

[Machiavellian]

Quite a good article Amric

 

[unmerged(11313)]

Am I allowed to advertise/discuss my AAR in this thread, although it's in the OT section?

 

[Director]

Sveland, this thread is reserved for comment and discussion about the Gazette and its articles. Discussion of your AAR would be better put in the Central BAAR or in your AAR thread.

 

[coz1]

Well, a very good AARticle Amric, even if you were a stand alone. I was expecting at least two others to join you but suppose they fell through at the last minute. I never got around to writing one myself due to my never-ending cold that seems to want to stay friends even though I have told it to go away repeatedly and repeatedly again. Suffice it to say, I did not get much done the last few days.

Hopefully the next issue will have more bulk. It's the last before Christmas folks, and the last for 2004. Let's hope it's a good one.

 

[Secret Master]

Now that I've had a chance to read it, I will say that I enjoyed your article, Amric. Now when my 14-16 hour days at work finally end (don't ask ), I might be able to jump back in again.

I hope to be up and ready for the next issue.

 

[Amric]

Machiavellian- Thank you sir. I do try to educate and entertain!

Svealand- Director is quite right in what he says. But do read the articles, you might find something of use for you AAR.

Coz1- Thank you, sir. A shame about your health. You should eat more chicken soup and tea with honey in it...with perhaps a dollop of rum. Feel beter soon.

Secret Master- I know what you mean about long days. I've been working for about 12 hours a day for awhile...Glad you liked the article though. Hopefully things will slow down enough for you to contribute to the next issue.

 

[Amric]

Let's not forget that Sunday the 19th is the next Gazette issue. I have a rather lengthy piece on the origins of christmas, et al....about 15 word pages long....I hope there are some others out there prepared with the last issue of the Gazette for 2004!

 

[Amric]

I decided to post early due to the fact I've had tremendous trouble the last few days logging in to the forums and doing much. I figured I would take the opportunity to post since it presented itself so nicely to me at this time. I hope you all enjoy it and learn some interesting information as well. I know I learned quite a bit...

 

[coz1]

Mine won't be up today as I have a pretty busy schedule. But look for it tomorrow sometime which is when I will most likely have a chance to read the rest of them. I am looking forward to this final 2004 issue and am excited to see what we all will do in 2005.

 

[Amric]

Yay! I am not alone this time! Very interesting article, Secret Master, and I tend to agree with you. There are plenty of old tales that are not the least homoerotic. You named quite a few of them. Robin Hood also comes to mind. They were a merry band of men. But there is no shades of homoeroticism in the story.

I'll even go one better. Look at the Free Company books on our own forums. The Captain and his second in command are close friends, and are married. But there is not the slightest hint of any kind of something other than friendship. You could even look at the relationship that developed between Captain and a certain unorthodox sergeant during the tail end of book five and into book six. Not really a father/son relationship but more like an older brother/younger brother relationship. At least that is how >I< took it. I don't know Lord Durham's thinking on this matter. But it certainly >read< that way to me.

Captain allowed a certain amount of latitude with Sergeant Amric, perhaps due to the fact that he saw a little of himself in him when he was a younger man. Lt. Lochlan also saw some of himself as a younger man in Sergeant Amric. Both men both commented to each other about how much he reminded them of themselves in some ways.

Is Amric a copy of them? No. He is his own person. With quirks and tribulations that are far different than Captain or Lt. Lochlan. But even though the three men didn't really interact that much closely, there was a very clear respect on Amric's part for the two of them. Were they friends in the traditional sense of the word? Of course not.

Amric really didn't have friends in the FC. He had superiors and underlings....and Baer, in which they weren't truly friends but colleagues that respected what each did and played well together using the strengths of each other to create a magnificent infantry unit.

Perhaps the closest to a friend Amric had was Oskar and Gerd, that inseperable pair. I purposely made Amric tortured to an extent, a well developed soul that had 'relationships' with his men in a comrade manner but it was always clear who was in charge.

Friendships between men can be written about. It has been done in the past and will continue to be written about in the future. Which I believe is part of the thrust of SM's article.

Even the parts of loving 'pets' were useful. Whether it is a cat, or a dog, or even a horse, people tend to anthropomorphize them. Nothing wrong with it, just as SM said. We all do it in real life. We tend to do it in our writing as well. It is human nature to do so, and I think SM's little portion where he speaks of his own kitten truly brings that home. At least to me.

Coz promised an article on Monday, and I am looking forward to it. I am also wondering what you all thought about my article on Christmas. I was working on something else, but it wasn't going the way I liked. So I did research on Christmas and whipped that one up. I thought it was appropriate, considering the season and all.

 

[frogbeastegg]

A very comprehensive article, Amric. You did better than the chap who tried something similar for my local newspaper.

Secret Master, your article was very ... familiar in a way to me. By that I don't mean that I've read it before, but more it covers something that has given me a headache once or twice. People are sometimes very eager to see things that are not there; Same and Frodo is but one example, Xena and Gabrielle another. That last example even adopted the subtext as an official thing because it was so popular; maybe that's one of the reasons I didn't like it past the second series: retrospective character alteration. I've only had the one misunderstanding on this score. Never talk to me about chess, sex and euphemisms in the same sentence. That misunderstanding took place a year ago and it's still burned into my memory. My nice, innocent scene, all misunderstood :sniffle:


Nothing from me again; I'm all out of inspiration for articles. I can't think of that single title coz1 requested, and I can't think of anything to write about either.

 

[Secret Master]

Just dropping by to say that Machiavellian guessed the namesake of my kitten correctly. He is named after the worst poet laureate of England ever, Thomas Shadwell.

frog: You know, the Xena example slipped my mind, but you are quite correct. I never understood why the writers decided to move in that direction.

Amric: Your article was informative and reminded me that some "traditions" are not as traditional as they seem, but they can still be fun. Well, except for the traditions that dictate that Christmas isn't Christmas without lots of money being spent on useless gadgets that are must haves.

Director: Your article got me thinking... What do people listen to while they are playing these games and/or writing AARs? And what would our historical counterparts think of such music?

coz: Sounds like you are enjoying your exported games from CK. I've had less luck in that regard, but then again, I find myself in the odd position of owning provinces in parts of the world where there is TI, resulting in not knowing what I knew about five minutes ago.

And I guess we will see where things are in a year here at the forum.

 

[Amric]

Director, I loved your article and it struck me that you are entirely correct. Except for the castrato Vienna Boys Choir or whatever they were called way back when...they weren't truly amatuers. But they were supported by the church, were they not? I am unsure of this and wanted to know if I was thinking wrongly or if that was something you would be doing in a different article on singing...

frogbeastegg- Thank you. I tried to make it interesting and informative. As for not having inspiration...well you would be surprised where I get my ideas. They just strike me and I go from there. I haven't had a methodical article in months, to be honest. It's all about inspiration. Something strikes me and I go with it. Sometimes it is articles such as you have done. Or Director. Or others. Or something I have read or seen on television or heard on the radio. Or a song. It just happens some times. Don't force it. Just don't ignore the feeling when it strikes. I have struggled to write something I wasn't passionate about and had to scrap it.

Secret Master- thank you! I completely agree. My wife always spends huge sums of money each christmas on the kids. And works very hard to spend more on me than I do on her. It's all about the quantity of gifts to her, I think. I prefer quality if there has to be a gift. The last couple of years I have been asking for people NOT to buy me gifts. As I get older I get more uncomfortable receiving gifts. I would much rather give them. But I guess that is just me. Nor do I over spend. I get something that will mean something to the person I am giving the gift. I spent about five bucks on a hand painted angel in a flea market for my mother in law. She loves it. It is one of her favorite gifts. It wasn't the money. It was something hand crafted that showed I paid attention to the things she was interested in.

 

[Director]

Less money = better Christmas; that's my opinion. I say let's kill the entire over-promoted hysterical mess: Buy Nothing For Christmas! Celebrate it with people you know and like, instead, and get over all the commercial crapulous hassle.


Amric, the Vienna Boy's Choir was founded in 1498 as part of a musical training program - sort of a 'gifted and talented' school for musicians. These are prepubescent males, not castrati; once their voice changes they graduade like Menudo members.

Castrati were taken from boy's choirs and gelded and further trained as singers; by report some 4,00 to 5,00 per year in Italy alone. Since women were not thought to be scripturally allowed to sing in church, and since boys don't have the lung-power of a full-grown man, this mutilation was done to give a high, pure 'feminine' voice to an adult man's projection power. Some castrati were the 'rock stars' of their day. The practice had its roots in Renaissance Italy, but the practice was condemned in the late 1800's and the last died in 1922.

If you consider these professionals, they would be the very thinnest sliver of the opening wedge. Almost all musicians were amateurs or semi-pro, and still are. Once we move from the Renaissance into the Baroque, professional musicians become more common; during the Renaissance I think - I think but do not know - that the singers were more like priests and monks; they had a vocation but not a paid profession. I freely admit I may be splitting hairs here, but it is a difference.


Secret Master, I'm going to touch on the sea-change that took place in music. Pre-Bach, their music is less accessible to us and ours would sound strange to them for several reasons. Post-Bach, music settled into tonal forms that are familiar to us today. The single constant change from Bach to our day is the steadily-increasing use of dissonance and irregular rhythm.

Bach might not like our music, but I believe he could comprehend it. He'd likely be scandalized and offended by things we allow (I will NOT get into a discussion of parallel movement, tritones and travelling tones), but he might be intrigued and stimulated as well. A Gregorian-chanting monk would probably be completely lost; musically, he would be speaking latin and we Chinese.

Bach's great contribution in his life-time was the development of 'tempering'. He didn't invent it, but he was one of the most prominent authorities of his day, and his views carried enormous weight. Music 'as we know it' just wasn't possible without a tempering system - but it is complicated, and I'll talk about that, and modes, and (heaven help us) polyphony, next time.