'AARchtung panzer!' II (WiF2)

[Lucifer]

So it's based on the historical sinking of that ship (by a sub), or are there ahistorical results (a German "pearl harbour"-like carrier strike)?

It appears to be historical only.

I am really enjoying your AAR and my sole opinion shoul not prevent you from using the Völkischer Beobachter in the futur. It was the central NSDAP newspaper after all and I can understand that one might use for historical flavour.
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Not that there is any of that in your version, I am just trying to explain why some people might feel uneasy.
I guess "Die Wehrmacht" is a really good idea as it concentrates what Darkest Hour is about... being a wargame.

I want nobody to feel uneasy, except the people from Poland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, France, USSR... I almost forgot Austria and Czech Republic
Anyway, my goal was to use Völkischer Beobachter before the war, and Die Wehrmacht after its outbreak...and I forgot. I may go back to Völkischer Beobachter when the AAR will be more political. But thank you for the insight, I appreciate it.

Well after seeing what happens in-game, I think when I play Germany I will simply remove all AI boosts

The problem, IMO, is that the mod forces the player too much to do historical choices. IMO as much as I like the decisions etc that the mod gives, Fernando Torres made some dubious choices about the difficulty in his mod.
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On the other hand if you do accomplish a Seelowe or invade SU from Turkey I will be impressed and accept my noob status

I must disagree emphatically with what was said above.
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It may be frustrating to some players that they just can't win every time, but if that's the case, don't play WiF.
Another thing is that this mod is really meant to give you a WW2 experience. Ahistorical outcomes are of course possible, but that's not what this mod is about.

My personal opinion is that... I am not going to enter this debate. It would be too long to answer to the comments that my answers would trigger and I don't have time for that.
What I can say is that my intent is not to follow historical outcomes point after point, but to allow some variations. My intent is also to show how USSR can be handled, if possible. One thing that I really enjoy in this mod (Reminder: I fought the USSR only once during a previous attempt) is how the German player can really think that he has won the war at the end of 41, and suddenly realize that he is in a desperate situation. Ok, it comes with tons of free units for USSR, but I have not seen any other good alternative so far.

<- Invasion: Day II | A bad time to visit the Baltic Sea ->​

 

[GulMacet]

Heh. I love the Eagle with the second eagle inside instead of you-know-what! Go get Poland, and France afterwards. Show the Froggies who is boss!

 

[Beagá]

I must disagree emphatically with what was said above. The problem of all HoI2 games is the fact that the AI is scripted and it is by default rather bad. Humans develop strategies and then implement them; if they run into a problem, they improvise, adapt the strategy, and continue. HoI2 AI simply builds units according to a pre-set template and then more-or-less randomly uses them against the player. This inability to think, to react and adapt to players' strategies needs to be offset by something - and the choice WiF made was to give the AI really tough bonuses to force the human player to really capitalize on his (or her) advantages - or lose the bloody game. It may be frustrating to some players that they just can't win every time, but if that's the case, don't play WiF.

Another thing is that this mod is really meant to give you a WW2 experience. Ahistorical outcomes are of course possible, but that's not what this mod is about.

Except that giving Germany or SU those amounts of bonuses automatically make it an ahistorical game, due to the absurd and ahistorical amount of stuff they will have. Not to mention stolen techs etc etc.

But you totally missed my point. I don´t need to brag about e-penis on strategy games, thank you very much, as I´m a very experienced player and know when I suck at a game (which is, thankfully, rare).

The point is, all HOI games (some more than others - I´m finding this mod specially fond of it), unlike other Paradox games, take a "puzzle" approach. That is, by trial and error you find the best path and options and stick to it. Does the game gives choices for intel, diplomacy and other decisions like Wargames? Yes. Does it give the choice to not use Molotov Ribbentrop pact? Yes. Why Lucifer didn´t took them?

Because they "suck". The mod implies, player will do that and this and so I will counter it. But the result is, there are no other viable choices. Spend cash on diplomacy or intel? Well, that costs IC, and the result are less units, a rather crap deal. You have to "solve the puzzle" to win. Spent on Uboats and they sucked? Too bad, restart. Too few infantry because you spent too much on diplo etc? Too bad, restart. You can call that anything, except a strategy game. Civilization, Victoria, EU, CK 2 -all are very different from that. There is no "best" way to play country X (at least not on Normal). They are about choice - you choose that, you will, MAYBE, get this in return if you play well. "Oh but this mod should be played historically" - well in that case Germany should lose 100% time, and soviets win 100% time. Why waste time then? And that´s not even mentioning Italy, Japan etc.

If you think that approach is good, fine. I don´t. Whic is why I modded the difficulty to remove the AI bonuses and enjoy the decisions, but not the extremely limited puzzle approach of the mod.

Hell, I´ve asked if anyone uses intel on the main fórum, and nobody answered it - either because the community is too small, or because they use it so little no one can suggest if it is worth it or not. That the AI is scripted is only part of the problem, not all of it - but that the AI isn´t reactive to the player in building units, is a serious fault that should be rectified on HOI 4.

 

[Lucifer]

@ Beagá: I don't know what approach I have not done yet in the entire HOI series playing with the 3 main Axis powers, including a world conquest with Italy with the first HOI. When I played online with French players, I was given the reputation of being a totally unpredictable player (restrained within some limits for sure), coming with never tried before (?) strategies. And I lost only once, after having the French forces at the door of Berlin in September 39.
Regarding my choices for this specific AAR, I stated since the beginning that I will go to Barbarossa except few minor tweaks but that is not because the other options are not enjoyable. For sure, they are less developed with less events, but as long as you play quite realistic, i.e. Axis vs Allies, it should work. Now, playing a fascist France could mess up the game. Why I decided to go for Barbarossa in this attempt is mainly because several players said that it can't be won. Meanwhile, some players have succeeded but in a way that I consider not realistic, with a single one heavily attack to Moscow. I intend to play this game and to not win it in 41. The challenge will start in 42.

 

[Beagá]

Oh I like challenges (HOI 3 in particular is easy mode), I just didn´t agree with all the handicaps. Besides I love stealing tech

 

[Lucifer]

I don't agree with all of them either
Regarding the intelligence system, you got several answers, one from the main developer. I don't really use it because I agree that I don't really like it, but the main reason is that I always play one of the Axis power and that I don't have enough money to use for that. It would certainly be different with the UK or the USA.

 

[Beagá]

Not really, playing as UK can be... scary. Tried them in my first WIF 2 game. Germany with 560 IC versus you with 170 (and only by 1939)? DOW of Belgium in july 1939? Good luck stopping that lol.

Also, funny to see that while German AI doesn´t send ships near UK (good scripting), AI UK merrily sends its fleet to be bombed. It´s an issue present in every HOI.

 

[Lucifer]

Heh. I love the Eagle with the second eagle inside instead of you-know-what! Go get Poland, and France afterwards. Show the Froggies who is boss!

Thank you. The eagle is taking care of his eaglet.
I will insert Norway and Denmark between Poland and France. They have the right to be invaded as everybody else
I am a Froggy by the way

<- To Warsaw! | Warsaw has fallen ->​

 

[nachopontmercy]

I am ejoying this mod more and more with each update. Good work and good luck!

 

[Winner]

Funilly enough, I am reading Churchill now and sending a fleet to the Baltic was exactly what he meant to do

 

[Cybvep]

I am a Froggy by the way

This reminds me of sth. When I played a PBF game (CEAW), I said sth like "German Panzers crushed Polish forces and approached Warsaw. Soon the puny Poles will be defeated" in an e-mail and he responded with a similar taunt, but directed against the Axis. The funny thing is that I'm Polish and he is German.

You've got to love video games.

 

[NikephorosSonar]

The Congress declaring war is interesting, I think they actually protested the war historically.

 

[Beagá]

Well 1937 for me and I have some questions as things aren´t very intuitive

Partial mobilization would give tons of dissent - but after war is declared the event comes for free? No dissent?

Also, Create Wehrmancht creates all those tons of crappy INF units that need upgrades AND reinforcements. Isn´t it a good deal to disband some of those divisions and build fresh ones?

 

[Lucifer]

Well 1937 for me and I have some questions as things aren´t very intuitive
Partial mobilization would give tons of dissent - but after war is declared the event comes for free? No dissent?
Also, Create Wehrmancht creates all those tons of crappy INF units that need upgrades AND reinforcements. Isn´t it a good deal to disband some of those divisions and build fresh ones?

You should be able to find the answers to your questions in one or two of my updates.

Partial mobilization: It is a very bad idea during peace time because of the dissent. You will probably not need that amount of manpower before the war anyway. When you declare war, play in very low and pause right after the declaration of war. Then the Partial Mobilization will NOT generate any dissent.

Create the Wehrmacht: Disbanding the units would be the worst thing to do. 1) They are at 5% strength, therefore they consume only 5% of the required supply. 2) INF are quite long to produce. You won't have time to produce 50 new INF before the war. 2) The upgrade is quite fast, and faster as the model is older. Don't start upgrading them before having the technology INF39. Why?
Once you have researched INF39 and that you want to upgrade your INF36 to INF39, it will cost you 1/2 the price for 1/2 the time, hence 1/4 of the price of a new INF39. I don't consider that it is worth the price since the difference between the 2 models is not that big.
Now, what about your INF31? It will cost 1/2 of the cost of an upgrade INF36-->INF39, and 1/2 of the time of an upgrade INF36-->INF39, hence 1/4*1/4=1/16 of the price of a new INF39.
For older models, the same rule is valid
INF39 ->Full price of a new INF39
INF36->INF39, 1/4 of the price of a new INF39 (in 1/2 the time)
INF31->INF36, 1/16 of the price of a new INF39 (in 1/4 the time)
INF26->INF31, 1/64 of the price of a new INF39 (in 1/8 the time)
INF21->INF26, 1/256 of the price of a new INF39 (in 1/16 the time)
INF18->INF21, 1/1024 of the price of a new INF39 (in 1/64 the time)

It means that upgrading an INF18 to INF36 costs 1/16+1/64+1/256+1/1024=85/1024 (0.083) the price of a new INF39, and that it will take 1/4+1/8+1/16+1/64=29/64 (0.45) of the time required to build a new INF39.

Right after the Partial mobilization event, and while you are still on pause, you will get a new event about the Reserves arriving. This will instantly reinforce your units with something between +65 and +80 manpower. I don't know why there is this difference.

 

[Lucifer]

I am enjoying this mod more and more with each update. Good work and good luck!

Thank you Sir. I have discovered your AAR, and I am enjoying it too

Funilly enough, I am reading Churchill now and sending a fleet to the Baltic was exactly what he meant to do

I kind of remember that, but it would have been a really bad idea.

This reminds me of sth. When I played a PBF game (CEAW), I said sth like "German Panzers crushed Polish forces and approached Warsaw. Soon the puny Poles will be defeated" in an e-mail and he responded with a similar taunt, but directed against the Axis. The funny thing is that I'm Polish and he is German.
You've got to love video games.

I have always considered self-derision as being a big capacity. Polish, German, French, they are all from the European family for me. Even the British, if I stretch my self-derision a little

The Congress declaring war is interesting, I think they actually protested the war historically.

During my previous attempt, I remember that the Congress refused to enter the war. They did it eventually several months later.

 

[Lucifer]

Gentlemen, I will be traveling next week...and without the computer :happy: So don't expect any update before next week-end, at the earliest.
Have a good reading!

<- A bad time to visit the Baltic Sea | Poland: First to fall ->​

 

[Winner]

That's a fast blitzkrieg... a job well done.

 

[Beagá]

I got your point on the Wehrmacht, thanks. But the Partial Mobilization thingy about pausing is a bit of na exploit isn´t it Also, there is a bigger issue. Suppose I want a bigger navy, Luftwaffe and more mobile forces - in that case, I think it would be better to disband some of those INF divisions instead of repairing and upgrading them.

I will quit my Germany game and restart as I made some blunders about trade and diplo. Didn´t know about the stockpile limits...

 

[Lucifer]

Here is a quick update closing the campaign of Poland, before that I am leaving.

That's a fast blitzkrieg... a job well done.

Thank you. You can look at the stats.

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But the Partial Mobilization thingy about pausing is a bit of an exploit isn´t it Also, there is a bigger issue. Suppose I want a bigger navy, Luftwaffe and more mobile forces - in that case, I think it would be better to disband some of those INF divisions instead of repairing and upgrading them.
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I don't think that it is an exploit. In my opinion, this is the best way that I have seen so far to model that the German troops were already mobilized (with no dissent) and that some of the Polish units were not. The German assault was based on a surprise attack after all. When I played Germany in an online game, I always asked to pause the game just before attacking one of the major countries, to reflect this surprise. I gave all the orders, then unleashed the Wehrmacht. And I agreed to the opposite, when I played France or the Soviet Union.

I still think that disbanding these units is a very bad idea. German forces were not so highly mobile in 39, nor so motorized. Even later it was not the case. One of the reason why Germany was defeated at Stalingrad was because she didn't have enough horses left to carry the supply. As Germany, you need INF to protect the flanks of your mobile forces. Nevertheless, if you still don't want them, I strongly advise that you leave all of them in a province, in a huge stack with orders for no reinforcement and no update. These divisions are only empty shells, they consume almost nothing (~60 units at 5% strength=consumption of 3 INF at full strength. And old models furthermore). If you change your mind, they will be available.

<- Warsaw has fallen | A pact is a pact, my word as the Fuehrer. ->​

 

[Winner]

How does Darkest Hour calculate losses? Are "captured" men and materiel (divisions which are destroyed in pockets due to loss of organization) counted in?

(And are you going to give eastern Poland to the Soviets?)