AA in Division Shoot Down Enemy Air or Simply Disrupt?

[TheMoe]

I'm wondering if putting AA divisions in with infantry would actually cause enemy plane losses, or is it simply there to decrease the air superiority bonus the enemy gets if you don't have enough planes.

I put a couple of SPAA's in with some tanks just to experiment and I saw something like a 6% decrease in enemy air superiority bonus, though I'll be darned if I know what that actually means. I looked all over and couldn't find the enemy AA bonus in the tooltips, though I could see it as an icon indicating enemy air superiority. So how much does some AA in with infantry and tanks actually help against planes. I know it can increase the hard attack of infantry divisions, though I haven't really taken a look at contributions of AA to tank divisions. I have read from other responses in the forum that CAS can take apart a tank division without player air superiority, though I've not experienced it or not been able to tell when it was occurring.

I've looked through some searches and haven't been able to find an answer to this question, though I've read that support AA is more cost effective than line AA. Thoughts on the whole subject or ideas? Thanks.

 

[Legocity264]

While I've personally never invested heavily in division AA, I do know that it does in fact shoot down enemy CAS doing missions against those armies. FeedbackGaming's video on the Finnish Him achievement features lots of AA in his defensive divisions, and in the course of several months they decimate the USSR air forces.

 

[sudpud]

Support AA(and any aa in a division) can shoot down planes on Close Air Support (Tacts and CAS). Tacts have more defense and are harder to shoot down than CAS. This is one reason CAS is used less in MP. Most people think support AA does this too well.

AA in a divison contributes AA attack, which reduces the enemy air support malus from enemy planes on Air Superiority missions(Mainly gained by fighters, but bombers on CAS mission contribute to AS). Division AA doesn't shoot down fighters(in theory it can but it's not really possible based on how the calculation works).

Land Combat Modifers
From wiki:

• Enemy air superiority: penalty for defender defense or attacker breakthrough. penalty = enemy air superiority * (1 + enemy doctrine modifiers + terrain modifier + concealment advisor) * -0.35 + 0.7 * AA / (AA + 112) (the latter part is "enemy air superiority reduction").
• Air support: bonus to attack and defense (in addition to direct damage support planes do)

I put support AA in all my divisions, and SPAA in tank divisions if I expect enemy air.

 

[el nora]

Divisional AA does three things.

• It reduces all cas damage inflicted on the division by 75%
• It shoots down planes on cas missions that are bombing that division. Not fighters or bombers on other missions.
• It reduces the enemy air superiority penalty that your division suffers by a rate of 70 * AA / (112 + AA). I dont know how you got 6 percentage points, as support AA1 gives over 8 percentage points on its own.

To answer the question of why support AA is more efficient than line, we look at the way that curve levels off. It is very steep for low values and flattens to a horizontal asymptote. So the initial points of air attack in your division are the most effective. Even with -20% to their air attack value, support AA cost only 67% as many guns, so they get the most bang for your buck. In addition to that, they both provide the same damage reduction. The 75% reduction is independent of the amount of air attack. So by paying less, you get the same damage reduction.

 

[sudpud]

If the unit isn't at full strength, you won't get 8%. Thinking that's it.

 

[TheMoe]

While I've personally never invested heavily in division AA, I do know that it does in fact shoot down enemy CAS doing missions against those armies. FeedbackGaming's video on the Finnish Him achievement features lots of AA in his defensive divisions, and in the course of several months they decimate the USSR air forces.

Thanks! I watched part of that video, but I missed the part about his troops shooting down the Russian planes. He has a good channel!

 

[TheMoe]

Support AA(and any aa in a division) can shoot down planes on Close Air Support (Tacts and CAS). Tacts have more defense and are harder to shoot down than CAS. This is one reason CAS is used less in MP. Most people think support AA does this too well.

AA in a divison contributes AA attack, which reduces the enemy air support malus from enemy planes on Air Superiority missions(Mainly gained by fighters, but bombers on CAS mission contribute to AS). Division AA doesn't shoot down fighters(in theory it can but it's not really possible based on how the calculation works).

Land Combat Modifers
From wiki:

• Enemy air superiority: penalty for defender defense or attacker breakthrough. penalty = enemy air superiority * (1 + enemy doctrine modifiers + terrain modifier + concealment advisor) * -0.35 + 0.7 * AA / (AA + 112) (the latter part is "enemy air superiority reduction").
• Air support: bonus to attack and defense (in addition to direct damage support planes do)

I put support AA in all my divisions, and SPAA in tank divisions if I expect enemy air.

Great to have a better understanding of how AA works! Thank you.

 

[TheMoe]

Divisional AA does three things.

• It reduces all cas damage inflicted on the division by 75%
• It shoots down planes on cas missions that are bombing that division. Not fighters or bombers on other missions.
• It reduces the enemy air superiority penalty that your division suffers by a rate of 70 * AA / (112 + AA). I dont know how you got 6 percentage points, as support AA1 gives over 8 percentage points on its own.

To answer the question of why support AA is more efficient than line, we look at the way that curve levels off. It is very steep for low values and flattens to a horizontal asymptote. So the initial points of air attack in your division are the most effective. Even with -20% to their air attack value, support AA cost only 67% as many guns, so they get the most bang for your buck. In addition to that, they both provide the same damage reduction. The 75% reduction is independent of the amount of air attack. So by paying less, you get the same damage reduction.

Fantastic info! I may have been looking at the wrong stat or maybe got the numbers confused. Six is just what I recall from one tooltip, which I might not be able to find again. J So good to know about support AA and how that works!

 

[TheMoe]

If the unit isn't at full strength, you won't get 8%. Thinking that's it.

That's a very good point. I was experimenting with some divisions, and I could have made a change that resulted in an understrength division. Thanks!

 

[Cavalry]

AA can capture planes for you, if you have MAIN company support!

The way AA work: any AA will prevent subtantial casualties from CAS attack. That's why a minimum support AA is recommended, just in case.
AA reduce air superiority for the whole division. That's why big 40w division is better to save AA cost.

The higher AA per combat width in a division, the much higher CAS they shoot down. So if you want to shoot down CAS, concentrate mobile AA in some CAS hunter divisions, don't forget to include MAIN support there.

 

[Harin]

AA can capture planes for you, if you have MAIN company support!

The way AA work: any AA will prevent subtantial casualties from CAS attack. That's why a minimum support AA is recommended, just in case.
AA reduce air superiority for the whole division. That's why big 40w division is better to save AA cost.

The higher AA per combat width in a division, the much higher CAS they shoot down. So if you want to shoot down CAS, concentrate mobile AA in some CAS hunter divisions, don't forget to include MAIN support there.

This is to funny? Is it true? Planes that can teleport across a continent can now be captured by maintenance mechanics on the ground?

 

[CrasherZZ]

AA can capture planes for you, if you have MAIN company support!

The way AA work: any AA will prevent subtantial casualties from CAS attack. That's why a minimum support AA is recommended, just in case.
AA reduce air superiority for the whole division. That's why big 40w division is better to save AA cost.

The higher AA per combat width in a division, the much higher CAS they shoot down. So if you want to shoot down CAS, concentrate mobile AA in some CAS hunter divisions, don't forget to include MAIN support there.

I can't wait to try this out. Now I know what to do with my extra Mil...

 

[Cavalry]

Tips for CAS hunter AA divisions: terrain do boost AA attack, entrenchment too. The division need to be on ground combat for CAS to attack them and shoot back, so they need to hold vs enemy ground. The more density of AA attack per division width the better.

 

[shachazhul]

I also noticed that AA batallions work extremely well together with interceptors. Enemy planes come to support their armies, your fighters take off to disrupt/damage them and your AA finishes them off. I've seen a lot of battles resulting in 100+ enemy CAS losses, so with maintenance support that's a lot of trophies for you.