A very short mini-guide: What to trade for

[Swuul]

Trade and trade-routes in EU:Rome are not valuable because of the money. Ok, money is good, but the money is really peanuts when you compare the value to the stuff you can get with trade routes. If you don't have horses, you want to trade for horses, etc.

What sort of trade-routes should one go for?

The answer is: Go for what you need.

What does one need then?

You need what you do not have. For frontier provinces you might want Stone (it boosts the defense), and for colonies Grain (boosts population growth) preferably from some high civ-rate province (to boost civilisation growth). If you have some provinces with high rebellion rate, try to get a Wine route there. Fish is always great (boosts man-power). Salt for provinces where you recruit troops is nice.

But before you look at what provinces need, check the strategic needs for your nation. I use the following list (from top downwards for priority) to see what I absolutely *need* at least in one province for the nation:
Iron
Wood
Horses


If you don't have Iron, you are pretty much screwed in land fights (unless you have access to lots of horses), because you need a strong solid line to protect the archers. Without wood you won't have archers (archers are the killing machines in this game) or ships (lots of ships is *very* important in MP games, in SP games it is much easier to gain naval-supremacy).

Horses are not *that* important if you have iron and wood already, but at least one province where you can recruit cavalry (be it because they have horses, trade for horses or can hire merc-cavalry) is needed for any successfull strategy in the long run. Cavalry provide you the flanks in battles and also provide you with rapid-deployment forces where fleets can't be used to move troops fast around.

The AI is pretty well aware of the value of different trade goods. Basically you have to offer something valuable to get something valuable. AI seems to (correctly) value iron and wine a lot when it doesn't have access to it. However, if an AI nation has already for example wine, then you most likely won't get them to trade you horses if you offer wine. Look at what the AI nation does have and doesn't have, offer them something valuable they do not have to get something valuable you want. The good old ape-rule of "If you scratch my back, I scratch your back" works fine when dealing with the AI

Then there are some pig-rich provinces (think Alexandria) who are monetarily simply awesome trade-routes. Alexandria has only grain, but it is rich beyond dreams (compared to 99% of the other provinces on the map) and has a very high civ-rating. If you control Alexandria, you can get AI (especially the dirt poor and backward barbarian tribes) to trade there basically any commodity, because trade routes with Alexandria simply are so valuable. Conversely, if the AI controls Alexandria it is very aware of its value. So, if you have all the basic needs for your nation and would like to set up a monetarily lucrative trade-route, be ready to offer something truly valuable for the AI or it will just fart in your general direction.

 

[BurningEGO]

Uh, well, i actually do other things too.

I usually trade papirus to big cities i possess if they got a lot of citizens. It boosts your RP by quite a bit. I also prefer trading grain instead of fish - grain boosts growth and will be better long-term.

And when i want to colonize faster - i put my frontier provinces trading with high-civilization rated provinces (and i always look for the ones with grain first due to population growth). But the last part of post you already wrote in yours.

 

[The-Doc]

All solid advice Jarkko. Especially the bit about Alexandria, revenues from the trading alone are well worth it (up around .20 often). I've also found that Antioch and Amisus are lucrative trade provinces as well. Coincidentally these cities all have multiple trade routes at the start so they make good trade choices at the start, as countries with limited envoys will be more likeley to get those routes in the early game trade shuffle.

Like you said the AI places a high value on strategic goods like iron, while stuff like cloth and grain seem less valued. I think that the AI takes situations into account somewhat though, so unstable countries will want that wine more than peaceful ones.

Foreign trade is more lucrative than internal trade, so it never hurts to try your luck at the start before falling back to internal trade. The way I play I'm rarely in need of multiple strategic resources of the same kind, armies are usually built slowly and preserved rather than expected to be replaced overnight. So I try to trade out of country in every province, sometimes even to potential rivals (wouldn't want them getting mobbed early and this way I can cut them ff when the time comes). About the only things I keep in house are papyrus, and to a lesser extent cloth or salt.

 

[Swuul]

I usually trade papirus to big cities i possess if they got a lot of citizens. It boosts your RP by quite a bit. I also prefer trading grain instead of fish - grain boosts growth and will be better long-term.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Sinai the only place where you can trade papyrus from (without roads) (EDIT: Peter below points out Pergamon has papyrus too)? Yes, papyrus boost is great, but the chance to get a trade route for it is pretty close to zero if you are not Egypt. When I play as Egypt I do not trade papyrus to anybody unless I get something *really* good in exchange (like for example half of Minor Asia), and I do not excpect any player trading their papyrus without a similar hefty price. Sure, if you get papyrus, always go for it, and make sure your greatest city (Alexandria, Rome, Carthage etc) gets the deal.

And when i want to colonize faster - i put my frontier provinces trading with high-civilization rated provinces (and i always look for the ones with grain first due to population growth).

You will end up with grain traded everywhere as more trade-routes open up. Grain is the most abudant trade commodity, and especially as you get on in the game, there is grain flowing out of your ears.

Also, big cities check for growth only once a year, so grain goes sort of wasted there. Grain *is* great for new colonies (growth checked once per month), but after they reach size 10, their growth slows down by a lot. Meanwhile fish remain scarce through-out the game (not as scarce as Game though, and I've never succeeded to convince the AI to trade me Game with anything ), and the 0.1 modifier to manpower is quite good in the long run (during attrition wars everything counts).

 

[Descartes]

Good mini-guide! I didn't know the AI valued some cities higher than others, I thought it was all up to diplomatic relations and infamy. My blobbing usually makes every other nation so pissed off that they fart in my general direction regardless of whether I have Alexandria or not.

 

[erthul]

I'd like to see little trading ships and wagons animated on the map like in RTW.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Sinai the only place where you can trade papyrus from (without roads)?

No, there's also Pergamon.

 

[BurningEGO]

There are also a few papirus in the Seleucid Empire. Of course most these provinces are landlocked so it makes matters harder.

But actually, i have managed to trade papirus as Epirus i believe, with some abysmal relations with Egypt.

 

[The-Doc]

Also, big cities check for growth only once a year, so grain goes sort of wasted there. Grain *is* great for new colonies (growth checked once per month), but after they reach size 10, their growth slows down by a lot. Meanwhile fish remain scarce through-out the game (not as scarce as Game though, and I've never succeeded to convince the AI to trade me Game with anything ), and the 0.1 modifier to manpower is quite good in the long run (during attrition wars everything counts).

Very true, and it took me awhile to realize that. Fish may in fact be the most important trade good to get in your capital. Since you can raise armies and build ships in any province at the same rate, the capital doesn't need strategic resources, grain isn't priority, papyrus is certainly useful but rare, wine is only useful in some situations (or later game with corruption), and cloth is a waste unless it's a wood producing province already. However all the major powers except Rome have limited manpower, and their capital province will likely be their main source of manpower.

As for wild game, if you are a Hellenic country you can get it from Tanais provided they have an open slot and the Rhoxalani haven't taken over yet. Though it only seems useful if you rely on quick militia levies to supplement your main army, as the 10% bonus degrades pretty quick.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

Very true, and it took me awhile to realize that. Fish may in fact be the most important trade good to get in your capital.

That is too broad a statement as it depends on your capital having high manpower compared to your other provinces which, while it is true for some nations, is certainly not a general property of capitals.

 

[The-Doc]

That is too broad a statement as it depends on your capital having high manpower compared to your other provinces which, while it is true for some nations, is certainly not a general property of capitals.

Okay, if you're playing anything a one or two province nation there are other priorities.

If you are planning on doing some serious campaigning though you will likely need the extra boost more than you need grain, wine or the like. As far as I know, multi-province nations' capitals always have the highest population of their respective cultures. And considering the warmongering nature of the AI, and all the possible civil wars you will likely need the men whether you follow an aggressive strategy or not.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

EDIT: Turns out that both I and The-Doc have been barking up the wrong tree on the fish issue as Lord Abaia kindly pointed out in post #14.... The fish bonus is 100 manpower, not +10% manpower, but none of us had actually cared to test it. Thus the manpower of the target province for fish is supremely pretty irrelevant - so long as it is a province that provides you with manpower. I'm trying to erase my misdeeds now, lest they lead the unwary player into believing I had a point with the "assign fish to provinces in manpower order"

 

[SirGrotius]

Good summary Jaarko--I wholly agree.

 

[unmerged(44302)]

If I recall correctly (haven't played for a while), the 0.1 fish boost to manpower is absolute, not proportional.

Thus a 100 MP province goes to 200 MP, while a 1000 province goes to 1100.

But provinces without MP don't gain at all.

So there is no point in trading fish to the higher MP provinces over lower ones, as long as they are nonzero.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

If I recall correctly (haven't played for a while), the 0.1 fish boost to manpower is absolute, not proportional.

Hah, turns out you are right and I am wrong as a single tests show (start as Rome on first possible day, connect Roma with Campania, watch in awe as Rome gains exactly 100 manpower). I can't believe I never tested it properly.

Thanks, Lord Abaia!

 

[The-Doc]

Hah! That is too funny, wouldn't have even been hard to test just had to look at the tooltip, .01 just made me assume percentile increase.

 

[Swuul]

Ummm... I was wondering what I had missed with people saying Fish should be traded to high manpower provinces... Thought I'd check it out today, because as far as I knew it just adds 100 mp. Like I already said, not much, but during long attrition wars everything counts.

 

[Swuul]

erthrul, you posted in another thread this guide has lots of false information. It would be nice if you could point out the errors here so I would be able to fix them to the OP, thanks

 

[erthul]

Ummm... I was wondering what I had missed with people saying Fish should be traded to high manpower provinces...

Like this one for starters. But that's all I'll say on the matter as there was more good than bad in your mini-guide and I wouldn't want yet another thread to get closed down.

 

[Swuul]

Like this one for starters.

Just to point out, I was suprised to see people say fish should be traded to high manpower provinces (ok, I was suprised to see Peter say that, because he is the matrix man and never gets the numbers wrong), when I was pretty damn sure it is just a static additive modifier. But it turned out I actually am right, so I do not understand how you see that as an error in my guide


I really do want to correct any errors in the guide, and would be most pleased if somebody could point out the errors. I have to admit I myself think the facts are correct, and I really do hate it when there apparently are several errors that I am not aware of So please erthul, do point out the faulty stuff, please?