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diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (6)

In January 1673, Chandigath defects to Delhi.

Europe in April 1673

Venice's prestige is -95 and stability is -2. WE is still around 17.
But still, Venice decides to annex the Papal State.

The AI should actually be able to manage a compact country now. We are still holding on to three provinces in India, to Sidon and ssome provinces in the Balkans. And America and Africa. In Africa there are a few rebels, but nothing worrying.

Troops are 170k. We are back to number one, now that Bohemia has 120k troops.
Income is stable at 6500. And we are leading technologically.

Ceylon declares independence - again. But after a short war, it has to cede Jaffna.
The situation in America seems to be getting worse.

By September 1675, we lose our last province in Anatolia.

In March 1678, some other rebels pop up in Italy.

March 1680.

Venice's troops are destroyed - unsurprising, since they have very low morale. Austria, Augsburg and the other allies are not helping this time...

By now, Venice has 93k troops. As rebels are moving unopposed through Italy, Urbino declares independence.

At last, the allies enter Italy and may save the day for us another time. How humiliating, having to depend on vassals !

But, the horror, this time there are too many rebels ! Austria's stack is wiped out, while Naples declares independence !


In May 1683, Urbino accepts peace and cedes Roma. Could have been worse...

Africa has been spared so far from revolts.

In December 1683, the situation in Europe seems pretty bad.

Revolts are getting bad in North America as well.

By May 1684, several other rebel stacks have popped up. Venice, how low can you go ?
 

unmerged(58610)

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That's one decline of Venice. The ai reveals its incompetence at holding a country together. It's a true nightmare and one the new Doge must prevent.
 

Ricardo Rolo

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I wonder if you are not doing this only because, if things go south in your game later, you can always that you did better than the AI could even dream of :D Really, what a mess :/
 

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I have a conspiracy theory.

It's not the Venetian AI that's so bad... it is the Naxos AI that you replaced was a million times smarter then you and helped it's overlord while you confortably played Venice. You must have picked the wrong vassal to observe stuff, as no living man could match the Vassal_Naxos_AI and whoever plays Venice is just doomed to fail without it...

... or, more probably, the Venetian AI sucks ;)
 

diegoami

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I was surprised myself - I did not expect the AI to suck that much. I thought the game would play itself when you are that much stronger than your opposition.
The AI's biggest problem is War Exhaustion as far as I can tell - because it doesn't know how to deal with big stacks. The WE shot from 0 to 17 in four years and stayed there because of the revolts, war taxes and more attrition. For instance, In America it has two or three big stacks walking around taking attrition and who are obviously not able to cover the entire continent - while I had, say, fifteen small stacks to deal with revolts. And it does not kill the rebels, he sieges the provinces first, taking more attrition and creating more revolts.
Same problems with fleets - while I have several small transport fleets, the AI has few huge transport fleets who are not able to cover all the coasts and cause attrition.
Then it does not know how to deal with isolated provinces.
 

diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (7)

December 1684.

Meanwhile, in India, a "Venetian Viyjanagar" has stabilized.

Venice has been recruiting massively. Venice is still strong. The rebels in Northern Italy get wiped out by August 1685.

But in the Balkans, Burgas defects to Bulgaria. You can't be everywhere.

In June 1686, Albania declares independence.

Silistria defects to Bulgaria as well. Albania's independence is short-lived. It is reannaexed in November 1686.

Still, the stack in Rome sits unchallenged and Roma defects to Urbino in November 1687.

But there are no more rebels in Italy - for now. Kashmir declares independence from Venice and Venice is no more present in central Asia.

Venice has now 6000 ducats yearly income and 120k soldiers.
In October 1689, peace is made with Naples. In the same month, Parma is annexed.

In September 1690, Bonny defects to Great Britain.

Europe in December 1690.

In North America, particularists come and go. How long will it stay that way ?

Croatia annexes Ragusa. Sidon defects to Syria and is lost. No more provinces in the Middle East.

In July 1693, another rebel round starts. As usual Venice is helpless till the vassals come to the rescue.

A short, inconclusive war with Savoy and Switzerland is fought.

Then there is another short and inconclusive war against Alsace and Lorraine. The only highlight was Ulm's army, who stopped short of marching into Italy. It ends in white peace.

Jaffna defects back to Ceylon. In South America, virtually every islands is occupied by particularists. It is probably them who keep the war exhaustion high all the time.

While Venice has still the strongest economy by far, it is not in the dominant position it was 80 years ago.

Venice's army is now the fifth strongest. Gone are the days when it was unrivalled. Though Venice is still unrivalled at sea.

In April 1699, Morea declares independence.
 

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (8)

There are still a few rebels in Northern Italy.

But our allies intervention helps us get rid of the rebels. By the way, Mantua is not a vassal. It got annexed and then declared independence, but I missed that.

Morea's independence is short-lived. They cede Janina and become a vassal.

In May 1700, Venice annexes Sicily. But Malta would soon defect to Aragon.

Central America...

In February 1701, another rebel round starts. They sure don't give up.

There are some highlights in America. A 35k particularist stack in Guachichil...

and a 42k particularist stack in Caracas.

For some reason, our allies are always shy. We need your help, boys !

In September 1702, Münster declares independence. But the independence is short-lived, in June 1703 it gets reannexed.

Calabria secedes and becomes "Sicily". Our allies come in and help us get rid of the rebels.

In India, only one province is left.

Venetian Africa is having some serious trouble as well.

and North America.

In June 1705, another rebel round starts in Northern Italy. Meanwhile, Schwyz has defected to Switzerland.
We for sure won't be able to do anything about the rebels in Abruzzi and Apulia.

As many times before, Austria, Augsburg and Württemberg save the day.

We get involved in a weird war against Muscowy...

In this war, Venice acquires Crimea. Whatever !

Map of Europe in December 1705.

Rebels pop up in Sicily. We won't be able to save Sicily.
 
Last edited:

diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (9)

Rebels are active also in the colonies in the Philippines.

Muscowy is white peaced. Abruzzi defects to Naples, while another rebel round starts in December 1708.

By September 1709, Palermo, Messina and Apulia have defected to Naples as well, while Venice is helpless against the rebels in Northern Italy and prays for the intervention of the vassals.

Turns out, there is no time for that. There are too many occupied provinces. Venice collapses.

As a result, Styria and Croatia are born as full-grown countries. That is a unmitigated disaster, now Austria, Augsburg and Württemberg won't be able to come to Italy to help with rebels. All alliances have been cancelled, anyway. In fact, Naxos isn't allied to Venice any longer, but it is still a vassal. We will need a spy to keep on observing Venice.
Apart from Styria and Croatia, nothing else is lost.

Venice, by the way, is a Republican Dictatorship - has been for a while. Stability is fixed at -3 - whatever the reason. And we have become... Protestant. WHAT ?

As a positive effect, all rebels disappear - for a while. They soon reappear - now they are religious zealots - CATHOLIC religious zealots.
Meanwhile, Venice annexes Corfu.
There are other provinces who were lost - "British Venice"

Not it is religious zealots all over the place - but these will cause a defection. To Sardinia, of all countries.

Religious zealots are active in Italy too. And this time, no help from the vassals will come. Styria and Croatia are blocking the way.

And in September 1713, the first defection happens. Santana defects to Sardinia.

Then come Uruguay, Puerto Rico, Pampas - "Sardinian Venice" is born.

Saint Lucia, Tape, Barbados defect to Sardinia. When you think it can't get worse, it does.

Saint Helena defects to Fez. Alpercatas, Maranhao to Sardinia.
There is the first defection in Italy. Liguria defects to Savoy.

Pernambuco defects to Sardinia. Athens defects to Morea, but Morea is a vassal of Venice. In January 1716, the situation in Italy is just... horrible.

Parma defects to Mantua, who is NOT a vassal of Venice.

Saint Martin, Bahia, Espirito Santo defect to Sardinia. Sardinia's colour is horrible.

Janina defects to Morea. Munster declares independence from Venice.

Cagayan and Manila defect to Aceh.

Curacao defects to Sardinia. Salinan and Pomo defect to Savoy ! And create the "Savoyard Venice" !
 
Last edited:

Chieron

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Wow, this goes south fast, losing the colonies even long before independence quests and without being attacked, too. That religion change really sped things up.
 

diegoami

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Wow, this goes south fast, losing the colonies even long before independence quests and without being attacked, too. That religion change really sped things up.
So what the hell... I am protestant now ! I hadn't even noticed that.
 

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I didn't realise rebels could be such a problem ;-)
 

vasziljevics

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you could post this to... don't know where to actually. maybe to the 5.2 subforum? one of the main goals of Paradox should be the creation of an AI that can actually maintain its strength.
 

diegoami

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you could post this to... don't know where to actually. maybe to the 5.2 subforum? one of the main goals of Paradox should be the creation of an AI that can actually maintain its strength.
Maybe to a Europa Universalis IV forum ? I don't think there is an easy fix for that, other than making the AI not take land attrition or giving them other unfair advantages. But I'll finish this test run and post it somewhere.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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one of the main goals of Paradox should be the creation of an AI that can actually maintain its strength.
One of the main goals should be creation of vassal AI that takes an opportunity to become independent, not protects it's master no matter the situation. Think what happened with Assyria.
 

diegoami

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One of the main goals should be creation of vassal AI that takes an opportunity to become independent, not protects it's master no matter the situation. Think what happened with Assyria.
Good point, it is funny how the vassals keep staying loyal. What happened with Assyria ? Or you mean Styria ? :)
 
Last edited:

diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (10)

Little Karoo and Cape defect to Tripoli.

Turks islands defect to Sardinia. Albania declares independence.

Chumash defects to Savoy. Cremona and Brescia defect to Mantua.


Kisarna and Luanda defect to Tripoli.

Cree and Moose Cree defect to Savoy.

Rio de la Plata defects to Sardinia. In November 1719, Venice has now less than 50k troops. But Albania has been recovered somehow.

Venice is at war with the Cherokee, not sure who started it.

Antigua defects to Sardinia.
In July 1720, Venice has 85k troops and 338 ships - the second best is Great Britain who has 122.
Guayra defects to Sardinia.

Flores defects to Aceh. But Venice annexes Siena anyway.

Guadeloupe defects to Sardinia.

Venice's income is 6300k yearly, second best is GB with 3000k. The Cherokee end up being annexed.
Kisarna and Luanda defect back to Venice.
Chur defects to Switzerland.

Mayombe defects to Tripoli.

By December 1724, there are no more rebels in Italy. Not sure what happened.


Yearly income is now 5k and there are 110k soldiers.
Cape and Little Karoo defect back to Venice.

There are no more religious zealots rebels. Now it is peasant rebels who have become fashionable. But Venice is still protestant.

We switch to Mentese, since Naxos hasn't been invited to an alliance with Venice yet.
Espirito Santo and Guayra defect back to Venice.

In March 1727, I spot a huge Persia and Korea in Asia.

Cagayan and Manila also defect back to Venice.

South America is now overrun with peasant rebels. There are no more Lombard patriots in Sardinian colonies, but Portugal has declared war on Sardinia.

Yearly income for Venice in June 1728 is 4k. The gap is narrowing. Venice has 56k soldiers
 

vasziljevics

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Good point, it is funny how the vassals keep staying loyal. What happened with Assyria ? Or you mean Styria ? :)
Assyria (the Antique state around the 7th century BC if I remember correctly) was a heavily militaristic country that maintained a huge professional army and... well not much else. they conquered all of the Middle East in decades but most of their territories were under the control of vassal states and tributaries - they were not actual conquests. so when their military power became just a bit wavering suddenly all their vassals and allies turned on them and their empire collapsed at the same rate as it had emerged before.

and yes, vassals are way too loyal to their overlords in this game.
 

diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (11)

By August 1729, another rebel round begins in Europe. We are probably going to lose Bulgaria, Bosnia and Lombardia. Verona and Ferrara are occupied, and there doesn't seem to be troops in Italy.

Europe in June 1730.

South America.

In January 1731, Bosnia defects.

In the next month, Genua declares independence - in Lombardia.

North America.

In June 1731, Venice diplo-annexes Morea. I think it is a great idea. It will be easy to hold on to those provinces, no problem.

Well, we are not technologically leading any more. We are actually beginning to turn red.

It is probably not worth even a sidenote, but Venice has by now lost of all of its provinces in India. Deccan is still a vassal, though.

Bulgaria defects to Bulgaria.

The Venetian peasants are now in Venice.

Several of the provinces, who are occupied by the peasants, defect back to Venice. Moron, Unamakik, Salish, Mozambique, Innu, Taqamkuk, Unami. Probably because the WE is decreasing and stability is increasing.

The situation in America, therefore, seems to be improving.

Income is at 3600 ducats, GB is at 2900. They will soon catch up, I am afraid.

But Venice is still occupied by peasants, while patriots have popped up in Achea. How unfortunate, who would have expected THAT ? I don't know where Venice's troops are, there are supposed to be 70k soldiers

Tortuga defects back to Venice. Europe in May 1734. Serbia has collapsed is is a part of Bosnia, and Saruhan has collapsed a long time ago and is now part of the Ottomans.

Africa and a little South America.

In November 1734, Venice collapses again. But the damage is limited. We lose Morea, Malacca and Cherokee. Losing Morea - and Athens - does hurt. Only one COT in Europe now.

Well, I did not even know we had that province in Malacca, so I will not cry for that.
 

diegoami

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Intermezzo 2 : The Doge's nightmare (12)

After this collapse, things are looking up for Venice. Income is back to 5400k , Stability is +3.

The rebels are away - but we are still Protestant in a country of Catholics and a Republican dictatorship.

There are a couple of inconclusive wars with Portugal and Ming. The army is back to 100k soldiers in 1736. Fleet is 227 ships total.
Europe in December 1736. Venice has no WE and no rebels. Luxury.


And it stays that way. In April 1738, Flores defects back to Venice.

Mayombe defects to Venice.
In November 1738, Venice declares war on Sardinia - to reconquest the colonies Sardinia stole. We end up being at war with Croatia and Urbino as well.

We destroy Urbino's army. Croatia invades, but this is not really worrying.

In fact, our allies soon turn the tide, while we invade Urbino.

In June 1740, the rule of Venice is restored in Roma and Ancona. Venice is rising again.

Venice's income is now 6400k yearly. Army is 150k soldiers. There are no rebels - nowhere. Croatia must accept an humiliating peace.

Mantua allies with Sardina and declares war on us. That doesn't change much. With the help of our allies, we get easily an advantage, while Savoy declared war on Mantua too.

But there are bad news as well. Crimea declares independence and is lost.

Savoy makes Mantua release Milan. We instead demand Brescia. Venice is starting to look like its previous self. We did get little WE, too.

Europe in November 1743. Look - no rebels !

Things are going well - too well. It can't last. Bohemia declares war on Venice ! The numbers don't look good.

We go back to being Naxos. Bohemia's stacks are outrageous.

In July 1744, the war with Sardinia is over. Sardinia has to cede back almost all of the colonies they got about a decade earlier. The order is restored. The empire is back.

If it wasn't for this war with Bohemia... Bohemia occupies all of our allies North of the Alps. But maybe they can't get into Italy - the provinces in Styria are not in the empire and they shouldn't have military access. Neither is Croatia. But Switzerland is in the empire, but maybe the AI won't find that path...

Well, turns out, they can ! They pop up in Brescia. They obviously came through Switzerland.

WE is also climbing, it is now around 10. But still no rebels. Well, there are some rebels. Kisarna defects to Tunisia.