A True Strategic Resource

[BlackUmbrellas]

Trying not to but what kind of "vision radius" do you forsee being in place at the start of a game when your fledgling race isn't even seeing past their noses... so to speak? Or are we seeing things as we reveal the space around us?

Again, strategic resources could be treated like any other resource- i.e., you can see deposits the same way you see mineral or energy deposits. You just wouldn't be able to utilize them until you had completed the research needed to do so.

 

[Secret Master]

Not sure what your after there but Stellaris use to have resources that could only be used in Space Ports too buff ships when the station add-on was in place.

What I'm after is that your post implies that the change in question dumbed down the game, and players who agree with those changes must be in some way inferior at playing the game, as only a worse or dumber player could appreciate those changes.

The problem with this attitude is that, as you point out yourself, the RNG is heavily involved with distribution of both the resources and techs required to exploit them. This means that, unlike in a game like HOI4, the player's skill and ability may have very little to do with the ability to make use of these strategic resources even under the old rules.

We always assume that resource "distribution" was done "evenly" throughout the Universe after the Map size and type was selected. Equal chance for all if Techs were researched. Pulling the right cards was not as crap-shooty as you make it out to be imho.

Evenly? Not quite. And while you don't think the tech is as much of a crap shoot, I certainly do. (Well, except for Orriluim for some damn reason. It pops early and often in every single game.)

What I do miss is that the strategic resources are no longer multi-purpose. I also wouldn't mind a system where only X amount of naval capacity could be affected by a single unit of a strategic resource.

 

[Butterblume123]

I feel like as important as any values are unique things that you can do something with, stuff that you really wanna have, so I totally agree with Oscot here.

Or at least, they need to be more noticable. Quite often I won't even know whether or not I have, say, Garanthium Ore or Teldar Crystals, because when you get them they just sit there in the background as a passive buff. Except for the terraforming gasses you never do anything with them.
(....)

I'm also in favour of the suggestion that the sources of these resources should be both more rare and more concentrated. I'd even go so far as to suggest they should be like the Leviathan's "Dragon's Horde" planet or something like that: literally only one or two sources in the galaxy, but they're special planets with unique graphics that stand out visually. If the Teldar Crystal source is, literally, a giant thousand-kilometer glittering brown crystal, twinkling in the x-ray light of its quasar sun and casting kaleidascopic shadows into the nebula behind it... well, you want to fight a war over that whether it gives you a 10% happiness bonus or not.

I think a way to add to this would be to be able to have for example specific ships, limited in numbers, that you use certain resources for, that might not even be much stronger than other ships having it, but having unique looking effects (idk, slightly stronger and red or green shields e.g.).
Another example would be unique defensive tools like a shield spanning not only a world like the FEs did, but an entire system - this could be really strong, but you´d only have the posibility to do it on one system per deposit (with maybe 3 deposits in a huge galaxy) - this way you´d gain one impenetrable system, but only as long as you controll the deposits.
I think a lot of stuff along this lines would be great - as much as being important gameplay-wise, they should feel important, which imo is their biggest issue right now.

 

[AlphaAsh]

*trumpet blowing* I had what could be described as a hissy fit over the changes to strategic resources and a major dog-pile of forum disagreement that left a bitter taste in my mouth... and then this thread comes along. *sigh* Captain Foresight should show up momentarily.

 

[Highlordelliot]

Make the strategic resources rarer.
Make it so having access to one sources lets you build many buildings that make use of it or as many as you can fit on your worlds
Increase the benefits of having them.
What this does is make it so the resources have actual strategic importance to fight over. Even if you don't think you'll need them you'll end up fighting with other nations just to make sure they don't have access to them.

 

[Secret Master]

Even if you don't think you'll need them you'll end up fighting with other nations just to make sure they don't have access to them.

You don't try to deny strategic resources to your enemies now? (Assuming you can see them)

 

[Almond_Brown]

Again, strategic resources could be treated like any other resource- i.e., you can see deposits the same way you see mineral or energy deposits. You just wouldn't be able to utilize them until you had completed the research needed to do so.

So like the way Tile blockers are handled? You don't get to pull blocker cards until you get a Planet with the blockers in place?

Or is that how it works now, versus a Tiered approach.

 

[Almond_Brown]

What I'm after is that your post implies that the change in question dumbed down the game, and players who agree with those changes must be in some way inferior at playing the game, as only a worse or dumber player could appreciate those changes.

The problem with this attitude is that, as you point out yourself, the RNG is heavily involved with distribution of both the resources and techs required to exploit them. This means that, unlike in a game like HOI4, the player's skill and ability may have very little to do with the ability to make use of these strategic resources even under the old rules.



Evenly? Not quite. And while you don't think the tech is as much of a crap shoot, I certainly do. (Well, except for Orriluim for some damn reason. It pops early and often in every single game.)

What I do miss is that the strategic resources are no longer multi-purpose. I also wouldn't mind a system where only X amount of naval capacity could be affected by a single unit of a strategic resource.

You have misunderstood. Any change made after a complaint about it being difficult to "remember" certain things is simply "dumbing it down", aka making it easier for some when it was not really difficult to begin with. It may seem a derogatory term but it is what it is. We are losing the complexity in our games to those who are simply to f'ing lazy to actually try.

I apologize if you don't like the term, it was the only one I could think of, without actually swearing about it. "Thinking" in our video games is becoming a lost art. I would hate to see it totally go away is all. But I am old school so maybe us dinosaurs should just move over...

 

[Angelic_Daemon]

If I could see the resources before I had to research them, it would give me more of a reason to try to take parts of the galaxy. The way it is now, I could careless because I can't depend on having them close if I wasted time researching it.

...you do know that don't get the option of researching a resource unless it's in your territory, right?

I've researched a number of the resources and they haven't been in the arm of the galaxy that I've been on or in any known space that I've previous scan or cover.

Personally I favor the idea of having strategic resources unlock new, more powerful ship components you can use, possibly with their own tech trees to use them. This way you don't lose anything important for not having them, but still gain significant benefits from them with the possibility of being severely crippled by losing access. For example, instead of just giving a flat percentage boost to ship HP, access to Garanthium Ore unlocks the Garanthium Armor tech branch. Garanthium Armor components have more or less the same armor value as equivalent regular armor, but they also give a boost to the ship's HP. So long as you have access to Garanthium Ore you can build ships with this armor no problem. But if you lose access not only will you be unable to build any new ships, existing ships with Garanthium Armor won't be repairable, as you no longer have the critical ore their hulls are made from. Furthermore, since research was focused in the Garanthium tech branch, the empire's knowledge of regular armor would likely be well behind the times, so new ships being built would have significantly weaker armor than before.
All of this means that strategic resources provide powerful, worthwhile benefits, while losing access means significant drawbacks. As they would require investment research-wise to utilize fully, empires would have to balance the risk of losing access and the cost of development with the benefits these components provide. They would have ample incentive to protect access to critical resources while possibly deciding not to utilize some if access isn't secure enough. On the flip side, not having access to a resource in the first place has little effect on an empire. As an added bonus, this system would help differentiate the ship designs of different empires even further.

I love this style, it would benefit well with a convoy system as well. I would love for them to have trading and merchant fleets in the game, I can see why they don't, load, but it would make for an interesting mechanic to deal with in peace and war.

 

[methegrate]

It is very dangerous to make resources too vital and rare; having late game wars decided based on a hidden dice roll at the start is not healthy for the game.

Respectfully, I actually completely disagree with this. Maybe it's not as good in multiplayer, but in single player (the vast majority of games) conflict forced by controlled randomization works very well.

I think the occasional Civ comparisons are the best ones. The resource model in that game works great: there are some resources that are nice to have (ie. luxuries or tile buffs). Then there are some resources that are absolutely vital, because you can't grow or develop your empire without them. Without something like iron or coal your civilization will technically have a shot, but not in the long run.

Civ uses this as a way of driving conflict and progress across the map. When the coal age hits and you look around and find none in your borders, you must find a way of securing it (whether by force or trade). Same as tech advances to iron, copper, oil, etc. It breaks up stagnation by forcing the player to engage other empires, or by forcing them to engage him/her.

You'd want to port it over to sci fi concepts. Maybe without Lythuric gas, you can't build shields. Garanthium ore is required for any ship larger than a corvette, etc. But mid-game stagnation is a known issue with Stellaris, admittedly, and this could be a great way to periodically shake things up.

Edit/add: I think one of the challenges Stellaris has had is that it lacks game mechanics that drive conflict between the players. It's a great open sandbox, and there is an ultimate goal of board control, but equilibrium can set in all too easily. Strategic resources, just like regular resources in an rts, shake that up specifically because they're unfair. If my neighbor has iron (or vespene gas, etc.) and I don't, I'm on a pretty short clock to either wipe him out or acquire some.

That's very good for a game. It keeps things moving, keeps things happening. Having them hidden at the start makes the game board an evolving, changing place. All of which would be a great antidote to the mid-game grind.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

So like the way Tile blockers are handled? You don't get to pull blocker cards until you get a Planet with the blockers in place?

Or is that how it works now, versus a Tiered approach.

How it currently works is the Tile Blockers setup, albiet with the caveat that if you have contact with anyone ELSE who has access to them you can also get the cards.

I don't really mind that system, I just think they should be visible beforehand, so you can prioritize places to colonize based on it and go after the enemy's supply even if you can't use it yourself.

 

[toolfan]

I think a simple solution might be to keep your initial buff per resource at 10%. If you acquire the same resource the buff gains 5%. So if you have one of a certain resource you get a 10% buff. If you own three of that one resource the buff then becomes 20% (10+5+5+).

maybe even give quests for them. Collect 4/4 of whatever and you'll get 10% extra buff and some extra points towards a tech that gives similar buffs.

I think that way it doesn't become a huge deal to trade away excess but at the same time you gain or want to gain more to give yourself a more significant advantage.

 

[kineticspartan]

I think the current system is overly simplistic, and should perhaps have a change to a system of multiple types of resources, similar to victoria 2
With different types of "mineral" e.g. Light metals- to build ships
Heavy metals- to build planet side infrastructure
Rare and maybe even the addition of a new "fuel" type resource- found in gas giants or frozen (uninhabitable) worlds perhaps?

 

[Solon64]

Star Ruler 2 did "strategic resources" very well, imo.

You had the occasional world with "marenium" or whatever it was called that let you use special reactors on your ships. They weren't super good by themselves, better than base reactors but maybe slightly worse than antimatter ones, but if you developed the marenium world, any ship using a marenium reactor would gain an ever larger bonus, with the caveat that if you lost the marenium resource, those ships would take a pretty big penalty.

It wasnt so critical that you had to have it, but it was a nice bonus, it saved you from having to tech to antimatter and if built up could even be better than antimatter, but an enemy taking it could severely hurt you if you focused too much on it.

It also had artifacts that, when activated, gave you massive bonuses (like, 50% more health to ship parts massive) but could be destroyed to revoke those bonuses until activated again, and activating them is EXPENSIVE.

Then again, borders in SR2 are a lot more... fluid, than in stellaris. More of a suggestion than anything, really, and SR2 is very firmly a 4x and not grand strategy. I only mean to point out that rare strategic resources can absolutely be done well, make a VERY good focal point for conflict, and still remain fairly balanced in the end. If a player is building up a marenium planet, you better believe he's getting dogpiled before it gets out of hand.