A True Strategic Resource

[Ramiel]

Personally I favor the idea of having strategic resources unlock new, more powerful ship components you can use, possibly with their own tech trees to use them. This way you don't lose anything important for not having them, but still gain significant benefits from them with the possibility of being severely crippled by losing access. For example, instead of just giving a flat percentage boost to ship HP, access to Garanthium Ore unlocks the Garanthium Armor tech branch. Garanthium Armor components have more or less the same armor value as equivalent regular armor, but they also give a boost to the ship's HP. So long as you have access to Garanthium Ore you can build ships with this armor no problem. But if you lose access not only will you be unable to build any new ships, existing ships with Garanthium Armor won't be repairable, as you no longer have the critical ore their hulls are made from. Furthermore, since research was focused in the Garanthium tech branch, the empire's knowledge of regular armor would likely be well behind the times, so new ships being built would have significantly weaker armor than before.
All of this means that strategic resources provide powerful, worthwhile benefits, while losing access means significant drawbacks. As they would require investment research-wise to utilize fully, empires would have to balance the risk of losing access and the cost of development with the benefits these components provide. They would have ample incentive to protect access to critical resources while possibly deciding not to utilize some if access isn't secure enough. On the flip side, not having access to a resource in the first place has little effect on an empire. As an added bonus, this system would help differentiate the ship designs of different empires even further.

 

[happyscrub]

If I could see the resources before I had to research them, it would give me more of a reason to try to take parts of the galaxy. The way it is now, I could careless because I can't depend on having them close if I wasted time researching it.

 

[Oscot]

If I could see the resources before I had to research them, it would give me more of a reason to try to take parts of the galaxy. The way it is now, I could careless because I can't depend on having them close if I wasted time researching it.

...you do know that don't get the option of researching a resource unless it's in your territory, right?

 

[pieman]

And when the only trading partners are local AI and they simply refuse to Buy or Sell, despite what you think is a very "fair" offer, then what?

Then you die. Being able to play Tall doesn't mean that anyone can play tall in any situation.

You can't decide that the bedrock on which you build your empire is going to be a mud pile with no natural wealth and expect to do well.

In real life, states/civilizations that "built tall" had some advantage or arrangement which made "building tall" the viable option, be it a strategic trade position, a monopoly on a rare and valuable resource, or the right balance of diplomatic arrangements.

 

[faljen_isus]

they could also buff the resources, but make them "relative to #object of buff# size"

so if i had 200 fleet cap i would need 1 neutronium ore to make it better
but if i had a 2k fllet cap i would need 10 to have the same effect
that would, lets say, make my 200 fleet with a few strategic resources comparable to a wide empires 1k (or more) without strat res thus enabling tall empire play
it would also make an incentive to wide empires to wage expansive wars to keep the quality of their ships high

also, the above stated idea for strategic resource techs is very nice

 

[LughC]

they could also buff the resources, but make them "relative to #object of buff# size"

so if i had 200 fleet cap i would need 1 neutronium ore to make it better
but if i had a 2k fllet cap i would need 10 to have the same effect
that would, lets say, make my 200 fleet with a few strategic resources comparable to a wide empires 1k (or more) without strat res thus enabling tall empire play
it would also make an incentive to wide empires to wage expansive wars to keep the quality of their ships high

also, the above stated idea for strategic resource techs is very nice

this does not enable tall play even when playing tall you still need stacks as strong as the larger empires. It just becomes more expensive for you to do this because your cap is lower forcing you to go way over

 

[happyscrub]

...you do know that don't get the option of researching a resource unless it's in your territory, right?

That ain't true. Suppose to work like that, but I've researched plenty of times never to see it. And I think it's suppose to be "NEAR" your territory and not "IN". But near is relative.

 

[Darkscis]

Just have one strategic resource. Let's call it melange, or spice. It resides only on a single planet. Make it so that in order to FTL you need to consume spice. Now you have a strategic resource that you absolutely must have, but everyone can access (by buying it).

Spice production responsibility falls upon the current occupant of the planet, and vast confederations of species would wage complete and utter war to oust them if they failed to maintain spice quota and provide it to the market, making owning the planet not only an extremely profitable endeavor - but also an extremely dangerous one.

 

[Tyrannical Prince]

Ya, I don't really like the whole "having on of this resource gives you a galactic buff"

I like the barathean power plants and other such resources that are localized.
Perhaps an expansion on local strategic resources such as an equivalent barathean stone for food and minerals.

Other strategic resources could be fuel/ammo for weapons/ships.
Want a planet killer? you'll need this strategic resource for the weapon, another strategic resource to maintain it...
Or what about a resource that allows you to build a very powerful sensor array (something that has +500% sensor range)
Maybe a strategic resource that allows you to cloak some ships

Another kind of strategic resource might be resources that can be moved from planet to planet like an ancient artifact or something that boosts research on that planet. The artifact could then be captured by an invading army and brought elsewhere.
Another could be a powercell that can power a planetary shield (like the one found in a fallen empire's space) that significantly raises the defense of a single planet

 

[Tacticus101]

Well late game wars wouldn't be decided on a start game dice roll if combat were more strategic than "who brought the best doomstack".

In EUIV if you fight with a better general defending on a mountain river, battles aren't decided on the pre-battle stack strength.
Resource control only becomes military destiny in Stellaris because all battlefields (and to a large extent all generals) are exactly the same.

Using the Civilisation games as an example; in Civ 3 the lack of Iron or Oil in your borders would have a devastating effect, denying you a lot of very powerful units. As a player you could work your way around it, grabbing Iron Resources with forward settling or an Archer Rush, but the AI was hugely weakened by it, a lack of resources probably dropped it by about 2 difficulty levels.

Civ 4 was better with Copper and Iron being more common, but even then you could get unlucky and lack some key resources. The huge difference was also that on most maps you could colonise distant islands or Tundra/Ice, where there were often untouched sources of Oil and Iron you could secure. Stellaris doesn't have that, the mechanics mean colonising more than a short distance from your borders costs a fortune in Influence.

Eu4 it helps to fight with a better general on a mountain river, but that is hardly going to decide the war. You still have to invade them and unless your opponent is completely retarded or you abuse the AI, they are not going to attack you in such a good position. Also, defending with a better general on a mountain river is the equivalent of a resource advantage against an enemy with a larger stack.

Regardless of other game comparisons though, the suggested effect of these resources are game changing. Having no shields? A massive Limit of fleet size? 50% more armour? Those are war deciding effects. They may not win you a war on their own, feeding your fleet in 10% at a time, crashing into a Fortress fortified system or having terrible tech with still lose you the war, but you will have an advantage akin to Prussia and Venice having a land war. Players struggle with that, an AI will just roll over and die.

You have to be exceptionally careful you don't have that kind of uneven balance, not when you cant even see the resources you might need for your late game fleet until you actually research them. It is the same issue practically all modern games face, they not only have to be balanced but feel balanced as well.

 

[misterderp]

...you do know that don't get the option of researching a resource unless it's in your territory, right?

False

That ain't true. Suppose to work like that, but I've researched plenty of times never to see it. And I think it's suppose to be "NEAR" your territory and not "IN". But near is relative.

Happyscrub is correct.

I would like to add to his answer the following: you can also get the tech if someone else has the tech for that resource (so trading can take place).

evidence from the game code supporting both Happyscrub and my claims.

The game can give you the tech if any of your systems is to be found in a so called resource cluster or if any other empire has the tech. see spoiler 1. However not every system in a resource cluster (which in it self is a cluster of systems that have can have a certain set of strategic resources in them see spoiler 2) has the resource that can occur in that cluster see spoiler 2 (the last bit of code).

So yes the option for researching that resource can occur if that resource is not in your territory.

Spoiler: spoiler 1

#Engos Vapor Refining
tech_engos_vapor = {
    cost = @tier1cost3
    area = society
    tier = 1
    category = { biology }   
    prerequisites = { "tech_genome_mapping" }
    weight = @tier1weight3
    
    weight_modifier = {
        factor = 2 #strategic resource
        modifier = {
            factor = 2
            research_leader = {
                area = engineering
                has_trait = "leader_trait_expertise_materials"
            }
        }
        modifier = {
            factor = 0
            NOR = {
                any_system_within_border = {
                    is_in_cluster = resource_cluster_2 #Engos cluster
                }
                any_country = {
                    AND = {
                        has_communications = ROOT
                        has_technology = "tech_engos_vapor"
                    }
                }
            }
        }
    }

Notice the NOR operator so only if both conditions are false does a this result in a factor of 0 (so the tech will never pop up) So if either any system is in a resource cluster or any other country has the tech the engos refining tech can pop up in your research feed.

Spoiler: spoiler 2

        id="resource_cluster_2"
        position={
            x=-123.298
            y=262.121
            origin=4294967295
        }
        radius=0.000
        objects={
            4 21 36 37 46 56 57 60 64 67 77 79 81 86 106 109 122 125 128 140 143 149 150 156 160 162 168 171 172 173 174 175 176 179 182 185 188 192 204 209 212 215 216 221 231 232 244 246 248 249 251 254 262 275 278 299 300 301 302 306 307 308 310 312 328 331 343 345 351 366 367 385 388 406 415 435 442 447 455 457 463 471 480 481 487 489 495 504 506 512 516 520 526 533 541 542 546 566 576 585 588 593 602 603 604 606 616 629 636 653 654 670 672 688 697 699 711 712 720 725 729 734 737 743 745 749 750 754 760 763 765 766 767 769 772 796 806 811 813 820 822 832 839 840 847 856 859 894 907 912 914 915 916 921 938 945 949 960 965 979
        }
    }

All of the objects are systems. (information extracted from a save file.)

    606={
        coordinate={
            x=-125.595
            y=124.710
            origin=4294967295
            randomized=yes
        }
        type=star
        name="Iriani"
        planet=6081
        planet=6082
        planet=6083
        planet=6084
        planet=6085
        planet=6086
        star_class="sc_m"
        hyperlane={
{
                to=526
                length=19.000
            }
{
                to=106
                length=14.000
            }
{
                to=604
                length=13.000
            }
        }
        discovery={
            36 74 2 
        }
        arm=1
        flags={
            primitive_system=62808000
            precursor_3=62808000
        }
        initializer="special_init_02"
        fleet_presence={
            16777525 
        }

example as sytem
so let's now
take a look at the planets in system 606

    6081={
        name="Iriani"
        planet_class="pc_m_star"
        coordinate={
            x=0.000
            y=0.000
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=0.000
        planet_size=22
        fortification_health=-1.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        entity=0
        tiles={
            1={
                active=yes
            }
            2={
                active=yes
            }
            4={
                active=yes
            }
            6={
                active=yes
            }
            7={
                active=yes
            }
            8={
                active=yes
            }
            9={
                active=yes
            }
            10={
                active=yes
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
            }
            13={
                active=yes
            }
            14={
                active=yes
            }
            15={
                active=yes
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
            }
            18={
                active=yes
            }
            19={
                active=yes
            }
            20={
                active=yes
            }
            21={
                active=yes
            }
            22={
                active=yes
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
            24={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        orbital_deposit_tile=1125917086717889    }
    6082={
        name="Iriani I"
        planet_class="pc_molten"
        coordinate={
            x=2.320
            y=40.080
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=40.000
        planet_size=24
        fortification_health=-1.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        entity=1
        tiles={
            1={
                active=yes
            }
            2={
                active=yes
            }
            3={
                active=yes
            }
            4={
                active=yes
            }
            5={
                active=yes
            }
            6={
                active=yes
            }
            7={
                active=yes
            }
            8={
                active=yes
            }
            9={
                active=yes
            }
            10={
                active=yes
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
            }
            13={
                active=yes
            }
            14={
                active=yes
            }
            15={
                active=yes
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
            }
            18={
                active=yes
            }
            19={
                active=yes
            }
            20={
                active=yes
            }
            21={
                active=yes
            }
            22={
                active=yes
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
            24={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        orbital_deposit_tile=1125917086717890    }
    6083={
        name="Leaf's Haven"
        planet_class="pc_savannah"
        coordinate={
            x=-25.800
            y=-54.240
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=60.000
        planet_size=18
        fortification_health=1200.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        owner=68
        original_owner=68
        controller=68
        has_ring=yes
        pop={
            556 557 558
        }
        colonize_date="2200.01.01"
        army={
            272 273 274
        }
        entity=1
        planet_modifier="pm_titanic_life"
        tiles={
            1={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    food={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                blocker="tb_active_volcano"
                deposit="d_farmland_deposit"
            }
            3={
                active=yes
            }
            6={
                active=yes
                pop=556
                resources={
                    minerals={0.000 1.000 1.000}
                    food={1.000 2.000 2.000}
                }
                building={
                    type="building_primitive_farm"
                }
                prev_building="building_colony_shelter"
            }
            7={
                active=yes
                pop=557
                resources={
                    minerals={0.000 2.000 2.000}
                    food=1.000
                }
                building={
                    type="building_primitive_farm"
                }
            }
            8={
                active=yes
                blocker="tb_mountain_range"
            }
            9={
                active=yes
                pop=558
                resources={
                    energy={0.000 2.000 2.000}
                    food=1.000
                }
                building={
                    type="building_primitive_farm"
                }
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    physics_research={2.000 2.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_rich_physics_deposit"
            }
            13={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    engineering_research={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_engineering_deposit"
            }
            14={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    energy={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                    sr_betharian={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_betharian_deposit"
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    energy={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                    minerals={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_mineral_energy_deposit"
            }
            18={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    energy={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_energy_deposit"
            }
            19={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    energy={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                    minerals={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_mineral_energy_deposit"
            }
            21={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    minerals={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_mineral_deposit"
            }
            22={
                active=yes
                resources={
                    minerals={1.000 1.000 0.000}
                }
                deposit="d_mineral_deposit"
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
            24={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        prevent_anomaly=yes
        orbital_deposit_tile=562958543361987    }
    6084={
        name="Iriani III"
        planet_class="pc_toxic"
        coordinate={
            x=80.160
            y=4.960
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=80.000
        planet_size=24
        fortification_health=-1.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        entity=2
        tiles={
            1={
                active=yes
            }
            2={
                active=yes
            }
            3={
                active=yes
            }
            4={
                active=yes
            }
            5={
                active=yes
            }
            6={
                active=yes
            }
            7={
                active=yes
            }
            8={
                active=yes
            }
            9={
                active=yes
            }
            10={
                active=yes
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
            }
            13={
                active=yes
            }
            14={
                active=yes
            }
            15={
                active=yes
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
            }
            18={
                active=yes
            }
            19={
                active=yes
            }
            20={
                active=yes
            }
            21={
                active=yes
            }
            22={
                active=yes
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
            24={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        orbital_deposit_tile=1125917086717892    }
    6085={
        name="Iriani IV"
        planet_class="pc_toxic"
        coordinate={
            x=-39.200
            y=-92.100
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=100.000
        planet_size=12
        fortification_health=-1.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        has_ring=yes
        entity=1
        tiles={
            6={
                active=yes
            }
            7={
                active=yes
            }
            8={
                active=yes
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
            }
            13={
                active=yes
            }
            14={
                active=yes
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
            }
            18={
                active=yes
            }
            21={
                active=yes
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        orbital_deposit_tile=844442110007237    }
    6086={
        name="Iriani V"
        planet_class="pc_barren_cold"
        coordinate={
            x=57.120
            y=105.600
            origin=606
        }
        orbit=120.000
        planet_size=22
        fortification_health=-1.000
        last_bombardment="1.01.01"
        entity=1
        tiles={
            1={
                active=yes
            }
            3={
                active=yes
            }
            4={
                active=yes
            }
            5={
                active=yes
            }
            6={
                active=yes
            }
            7={
                active=yes
            }
            8={
                active=yes
            }
            9={
                active=yes
            }
            10={
                active=yes
            }
            11={
                active=yes
            }
            12={
                active=yes
            }
            13={
                active=yes
            }
            14={
                active=yes
            }
            16={
                active=yes
            }
            17={
                active=yes
            }
            18={
                active=yes
            }
            19={
                active=yes
            }
            20={
                active=yes
            }
            21={
                active=yes
            }
            22={
                active=yes
            }
            23={
                active=yes
            }
            24={
                active=yes
            }
        }
        orbital_deposit_tile=1125917086717894    }

no ergos resource to befound in this system

 

[Airowird]

What if Strategic Resources were 'only' required for XL weapons? Or provided tactical advantages? e.g. the tech also provides an Aux slot item that, if you have said SR resource, can provide, say, +40% damage, -15% fire rate. Or +30% Speed, -10% Hull Power. You know, interesting stuff.

 

[Secret Master]

The more unique and or precious a resource becomes, the wider the gap if you don't get a fair share via the RNJesus.

Thus the softening (nerfing) of what use to be cool special resources. Players complained, the Dev listened, dumbed it down (again) and here we are.

:raises hand:

If the RNG determines distribution of precious resources, and the RNG determines cards that show in when researching new techs, then how is acquiring them related to being a smart player?

It's not like HOI4 where I can attack Portugal and take her tungsten (to fuel my factories building Panthers), since I know from the start Portugal has over 300 tungsten. Germany might decide to invade Spain and Portugal to grab a crucial resource, and her enemies might have a plan to stop her, hence requiring a strategy. But there is no mystery involved. It's not like Germany discovers how to use tungsten in 1938, and suddenly they get the notifier that Portugal controls tons of of the stuff.

In Stellaris, you can't even see resources in space until you have the tech (at least planet side resources like pets and Betharian stone are visible). Oh, you want to go looking for neutronium and fighting wars for it? Too bad, the RNG says you can't even see it right now. You want pitharin dust? Sucks to be you; it's all on the other side of the galaxy where you don't even have easy hyperspace access; by the time you conquer everyone to get access to the resource, the game is over anyway. Starting out as a kinetic species? Too bad, only xenophobes and fanatical purifiers own teldar crystals; your xenophile diplomacy won't help here.

Due to the random nature of the galaxy and tech progress, there will be situations where players are confronted with a galaxy that makes it impossible for them to gain control over certain resources without basically winning the game anyway. Because that's the case, failing to acquire them is not some kind of strategic failure or lack of intelligence.

You can argue that the game should be more difficult by virtue of making strategic resources more strategic, but let's not pretend that only morons and bad players would find the game harder. We've both played enough Stellaris to know that the RNG can really harm players with the resource distribution or a bad series of draws with research. The Devs have decided that they don't want empires completely crippled by RNG; that's a design decision. It's not "dumbing the game down" if they are preventing the RNG from arbitrarily screwing empires.

 

[Almond_Brown]

If I could see the resources before I had to research them, it would give me more of a reason to try to take parts of the galaxy. The way it is now, I could careless because I can't depend on having them close if I wasted time researching it.

A Catch22 deal really. How would you know how/where to find said Resource without first researching how to find it?

 

[Almond_Brown]

Then you die. Being able to play Tall doesn't mean that anyone can play tall in any situation.

You can't decide that the bedrock on which you build your empire is going to be a mud pile with no natural wealth and expect to do well.

In real life, states/civilizations that "built tall" had some advantage or arrangement which made "building tall" the viable option, be it a strategic trade position, a monopoly on a rare and valuable resource, or the right balance of diplomatic arrangements.

And in R/L I would be dealing with another human being, or group assembled to deal in that field. In Stellaris, we are dealing with a "set of code" and it can often deny acceptance despite the offering being a "fair deal". Besides, using R/L ideas as a basis for diplomacy in a video game... really?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

A Catch22 deal really. How would you know how/where to find said Resource without first researching how to find it?

Simple: you observe that there is an odd material with odd properties. You then research how to use those properties in a useful and wider application.

 

[Almond_Brown]

:raises hand:

If the RNG determines distribution of precious resources, and the RNG determines cards that show in when researching new techs, then how is acquiring them related to being a smart player?

It's not like HOI4 where I can attack Portugal and take her tungsten (to fuel my factories building Panthers), since I know from the start Portugal has over 300 tungsten. Germany might decide to invade Spain and Portugal to grab a crucial resource, and her enemies might have a plan to stop her, hence requiring a strategy. But there is no mystery involved. It's not like Germany discovers how to use tungsten in 1938, and suddenly they get the notifier that Portugal controls tons of of the stuff.

In Stellaris, you can't even see resources in space until you have the tech (at least planet side resources like pets and Betharian stone are visible). Oh, you want to go looking for neutronium and fighting wars for it? Too bad, the RNG says you can't even see it right now. You want pitharin dust? Sucks to be you; it's all on the other side of the galaxy where you don't even have easy hyperspace access; by the time you conquer everyone to get access to the resource, the game is over anyway. Starting out as a kinetic species? Too bad, only xenophobes and fanatical purifiers own teldar crystals; your xenophile diplomacy won't help here.

Due to the random nature of the galaxy and tech progress, there will be situations where players are confronted with a galaxy that makes it impossible for them to gain control over certain resources without basically winning the game anyway. Because that's the case, failing to acquire them is not some kind of strategic failure or lack of intelligence.

You can argue that the game should be more difficult by virtue of making strategic resources more strategic, but let's not pretend that only morons and bad players would find the game harder. We've both played enough Stellaris to know that the RNG can really harm players with the resource distribution or a bad series of draws with research. The Devs have decided that they don't want empires completely crippled by RNG; that's a design decision. It's not "dumbing the game down" if they are preventing the RNG from arbitrarily screwing empires.

Not sure what your after there but Stellaris use to have resources that could only be used in Space Ports too buff ships when the station add-on was in place.

We always assume that resource "distribution" was done "evenly" throughout the Universe after the Map size and type was selected. Equal chance for all if Techs were researched. Pulling the right cards was not as crap-shooty as you make it out to be imho.

Turned out players did not like that method as they "call them what you will" couldn't seem to remember what space stations had what resources loaded and thus complained, the Dev listened, and now the "Global Bonus" method has been employed, despite it being utterly absurd that my space ships, that were already built, somehow get a "buff" after I find some resource in the middle of nowhereville. If that is not "dumbed down" to meet the needs of the few, then we will have to agree to disagree on the subject.

 

[Almond_Brown]

Simple: you observe that there is an odd material with odd properties. You then research how to use those properties in a useful and wider application.

And how did you know to "observe" in that particular area of the Universe?

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

And how did you know to "observe" in that particular area of the Universe?

You're overcomplicating this.

If the resources are just there, available to be seen like any other resource, but cannot be used until you've research the appropriate tech, that allows you to make strategic choices about what resources to secure and prioritize research for.

I don't find it unbelievable that you could detect a unique form of plasma that is speculated to be able to super-charge shields and then begin researching how to actually do that.

 

[Almond_Brown]

You're overcomplicating this.

If the resources are just there, available to be seen like any other resource, but cannot be used until you've research the appropriate tech, that allows you to make strategic choices about what resources to secure and prioritize research for.

I don't find it unbelievable that you could detect a unique form of plasma that is speculated to be able to super-charge shields and then begin researching how to actually do that.

Trying not to but what kind of "vision radius" do you forsee being in place at the start of a game when your fledgling race isn't even seeing past their noses... so to speak? Or are we seeing things as we reveal the space around us?