A True Strategic Resource

[Red Legion]

Simple version:

• Current 'strategic' resources simply provide buffs, are not important enough, not owning them is not a big problem
• Implement a strategic resource that is actually required by the player to support ships or use them in full capacity
• Fluff-wise, could be a crystal that powers ships, a mineral used in construction and maintenence of ship hulls etc
• Rare but in large deposits, creating very valuable targets and important points to defend
• Broadens warfare a little so it's not just a rush to hit the opponents fleet- the weaker could strike at this resource's deposits, potentially damaging other empire's ability to fight
• Actual effect of not having enough of this resource could either be complete lack of operation by ships, or effects such as lower movement speed, no shields etc

Text wall version:

Resources in Stellaris haven't ever felt quite right for me. Not for a grand strategy, anyway. Everything revolves around energy credits and minerals. That's fine for the very base level of the economic mechanics of the game.

Strategic/special resources are in Stellaris of course, but I feel like they miss the mark. They provide a bonus, which is nice, but not having these resources is not really a bad thing and isn't detrimental to the player at all.

The issue with that is that they're hardly strategic. They're nice to have, but I don't think I've ever specifically waged war or expanded specifically to acquire them. I've certainly not payed attention to what my opponent owns when doing battle. Speaking of combat related resources, of course.

Personally, I would like to see a type of resource that is the other way around- something that the player actually requires. Something that is truly worth controlling and fighting over because it's actually needed.

Other games do this- think Civlization's iron, oil, uranium resources etc- and I feel like it'd suit Stellaris well (not just because it's in another game). Think of a particular resource that is, perhaps, required to fuel the jump drives on starships, or a special resource used to construct starship hulls. Mechanically it would act as a limiter to what you can support (you need x units to support x fleet size), the difference to the current fleet limit being whereas the former is a representation of your size and tech limit, the latter would be an actual physical resource that could be fought over. Hell, just nuke the current fleet limit and have research act as enhancers to how much you can support from these resources.

Suddenly there's something other than fleets and planets worth fighting over and controlling- the loss of enough mining facilities could potentially cripple an otherwise larger empire, giving an empire that might otherwise have a weaker fleet a chance and different approach to warfare. Suddenly you have to consider the defence and destruction of such facilities in wars.

Current resources just don't promote this kind of gameplay because they're either too common or don't affect the game much.

An important factor would be that said special resource would not be common at all, however actual sources of it would provide a relatively large amount. Mechanically this raises the value of that resource massively.

Whether or not the effect of not having enough of this resource to support your current fleet is the complete lack of operation by said ships, or just a major detrimental effect (slower travel speeds, no shields etc), as long as the effect is bad for the player to not have enough, the effect on the game is the same.

 

[Oscot]

I agree with all of this. Resources need to be buffed.

Or at least, they need to be more noticable. Quite often I won't even know whether or not I have, say, Garanthium Ore or Teldar Crystals, because when you get them they just sit there in the background as a passive buff. Except for the terraforming gasses you never do anything with them.

Indeed, I think there's two (three) problems rolled into one with resources. The first is that generally they're not very good. Ooooo, 10% hull strength? When I can get far better returns just by researching new armour technologies, this kinda puts a damper on any enthusiasm you might have to say "We must annex the Tyrathca System on the border of the K'zzikt Star Empire to secure its garanthium ore, otherwise our ships will be easy pickings for the Zolon Hegemony's war machine!". Resources just aren't important enough to go to war for at the moment.

The second problem is that the player basically never interacts with his resources. This might be Unpopular Opinions Time, but I'd say the resources system was vastly better in 1.2 when you had to build the processing facility on a planets' surface and the starbase facilities in ports. Sure, it was fiddly and you'd keep forgetting if / where the facility was located. But at least then you get some feedback about the resources you control, you got to feel like you are actually managing a scarce and valuable commodity and you have to choose whether to deploy it in civilian or military fields. This had the additional advantage that it encouraged you to make dedicated shipyard starbases, which helped make your star systems feel distinct from one another. Woe betide you if the shipyard gets destroyed, it takes years to reconstruct all those modules.

I think a great way to solve the problems is, as OP suggests, make it so that there's a special kind of module that you can only build if you have a given resource. If nothing else, from a psychological point of view that's a great way to make resources feel more important. Even if Garanthium Hull Plating IV isn't the best armour you can build, it's still the case that being told "You can't have this" is an excellent way to make a person want it.

I'm also in favour of the suggestion that the sources of these resources should be both more rare and more concentrated. I'd even go so far as to suggest they should be like the Leviathan's "Dragon's Horde" planet or something like that: literally only one or two sources in the galaxy, but they're special planets with unique graphics that stand out visually. If the Teldar Crystal source is, literally, a giant thousand-kilometer glittering brown crystal, twinkling in the x-ray light of its quasar sun and casting kaleidascopic shadows into the nebula behind it... well, you want to fight a war over that whether it gives you a 10% happiness bonus or not.

 

[Red Legion]

I think it's important too though that people understand the difference between a resource that is an optional extra, and something that is actually required.

There has to be a negative for not owning a resource, rather than just a buff for owning it. Making it a required resource, not an optional one.

You could hugely increase the buffs a resource gives, but that is then essentially doing the same as having it essential, because you'd need it to remain even remotely competitive and all you're doing is increasing the power levels of units hugely and unnecessarily.

Of course I wouldn't want every resource like that- even just one super important resource would have enough of an effect on gameplay.

 

[Oscot]

There has to be a negative for not owning a resource, rather than just a buff for owning it. Making it a required resource, not an optional one.

I don't really understand how you could do this though. You're not going to build any Betharian Stone Power Plants if you don't have any Betharian Stone. And if you don't have any Betharian Stone Power Plants then you don't need any Betharian Stone.

Could do something like "You can't even build any engines better than Hyperdrive I unless you have the Positronic Silicon resource", so after 2250 everyone else's fleets will run rings around you unless you secure a supply, but if you combine that with the "Resources are very rare and localised in one / two systems" then this becomes a little... unfair.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

The second problem is that the player basically never interacts with his resources. This might be Unpopular Opinions Time, but I'd say the resources system was vastly better in 1.2 when you had to build the processing facility on a planets' surface and the starbase facilities in ports.

FWIW, I only got the game during 1.3, so I never used that system- but every time I hear about it it sounds infinitely more interesting than the current one.

 

[LughC]

Sounds like not only a nerf to tall empires but a flat removal of them as a play style. And in the worst case a force game reset with bad RNG.

This sounds more like something for a mod than the main game

 

[Red Legion]

I don't really understand how you could do this though. You're not going to build any Betharian Stone Power Plants if you don't have any Betharian Stone. And if you don't have any Betharian Stone Power Plants then you don't need any Betharian Stone.

Could do something like "You can't even build any engines better than Hyperdrive I unless you have the Positronic Silicon resource", so after 2250 everyone else's fleets will run rings around you unless you secure a supply, but if you combine that with the "Resources are very rare and localised in one / two systems" then this becomes a little... unfair.

Honestly I would not use this for the current resources, since it wouldn't work.

What I propose is a new resource that is specifically required to field ships. Completely random values, but along the lines of "4 units of Drive Crystals mined by an empire to field a fleet size of 30 points" or something.

Sounds like not only a nerf to tall empires but a flat removal of them as a play style. And in the worst case a force game reset with bad RNG.

This sounds more like something for a mod than the main game

For those that want a completely fair, balanced game, it's not hard to envisage a game start option to have them evenly distributed.

And it wouldn't necessarily remove them as a playstyle, it would depend on how it's balanced in terms of how much you need to field x amount. You might not necessarily need a large amount of deposits to field a large fleet (hence the rare but large deposits), while the excess could become a valuable resource to trade for other resources.

I would like it as a mod, but from my own prodding it seems like it's impossible to achieve what I'm after through modding, and would require the AI to take into account the importance of these as objectives.

 

[LughC]

But again just look at the resorses now. You can go entire games without getting a single one if you decide to have a small empire. Not a big deal with the current ones but if your navy is gutted because of it you remove the only real advantage/defence of small nations (better military tech)


And Idk about a mod like this being impossible alpha mod does plenty like this and is full of unique resources needed for a variety of things

 

[Derp]

The Civ games always had fallbacks if you lacked strategic resources, though.

If a specific resource is needed just to build ships then whatever empire has the most will simply dominate, and the empires with the least will be helpless.

 

[Red Legion]

But again just look at the resorses now. You can go entire games without getting a single one if you decide to have a small empire. Not a big deal with the current ones but if your navy is gutted because of it you remove the only real advantage/defence of small nations (better military tech)


And Idk about a mod like this being impossible alpha mod does plenty like this and is full of unique resources needed for a variety of things

True- so I'd envision them being a little more common than the current ones. There's a lot of different current resources, whereas this one would be a more global resource.

 

[LughC]

True- so I'd envision them being a little more common than the current ones. There's a lot of different current resources, whereas this one would be a more global resource.

Then at this point they become so common that you always have them and they may as well not exist. Only thing it would add is now during war I go kill all of those after our doomstacks fight just making the one fight wars even more of a problem (there now really is no chance to rebuild)

 

[rcasale]

Could do something like "You can't even build any engines better than Hyperdrive I unless you have the Positronic Silicon resource", so after 2250 everyone else's fleets will run rings around you unless you secure a supply, but if you combine that with the "Resources are very rare and localised in one / two systems" then this becomes a little... unfair.

I'm all for the unfairness. At least in a single player game. It would provide a unique challenge to the player that's independent of the AI competency. Though, if the RNG gives you all the resources, it would make things boringly easy.

 

[Arkangilos]

Sounds like not only a nerf to tall empires but a flat removal of them as a play style. And in the worst case a force game reset with bad RNG.

This sounds more like something for a mod than the main game

Well I mean, you could always trade/buy them. Like in real life when a country doesn't naturally produce a resource it needs.

 

[Almond_Brown]

Regardless of "distribution" they who own more space own more resources, rare or otherwise. The more unique and or precious a resource becomes, the wider the gap if you don't get a fair share via the RNJesus.

The reason the resources were changed to what we have now is this exact reason. Some got lots and made good use, while others did not. Thus the softening (nerfing) of what use to be cool special resources. Players complained, the Dev listened, dumbed it down (again) and here we are.

Complex and intricate games are not the big sellers anymore. Best get used to that and save yourself the head ache. Even the new HOIIV has had its systems slashed in complexity compared to previous versions, and many new player still see them as "overly complex" and complain.

Soon checkers will be the most complex game on the Planet and players will even want that "dumbed" down when they can't win at it all the time.

 

[Almond_Brown]

Well I mean, you could always trade/buy them. Like in real life when a country doesn't naturally produce a resource it needs.

And when the only trading partners are local AI and they simply refuse to Buy or Sell, despite what you think is a very "fair" offer, then what?

 

[Tacticus101]

It is very dangerous to make resources too vital and rare; having late game wars decided based on a hidden dice roll at the start is not healthy for the game. It can also be a huge issue for the AI, they are not good at making strategic decisions to secure resources and can easily be neutered because they didn't start with any in their borders. You need to be very careful of balance, much better to ere on the side of caution like Paradox have.

Well I mean, you could always trade/buy them. Like in real life when a country doesn't naturally produce a resource it needs.

There are 195 countries in the world and numerous private entities you can buy resources from in the real world. Short of a World war, its fairly easy to find someone to sell you vital resources and equipment.

In Stellaris there are far less entities and with the current mechanics it would be incredibly easy to have no access to a lot of vital resources.

 

[ncourt]

It is very dangerous to make resources too vital and rare; having late game wars decided based on a hidden dice roll at the start is not healthy for the game. It can also be a huge issue for the AI, they are not good at making strategic decisions to secure resources and can easily be neutered because they didn't start with any in their borders. You need to be very careful of balance, much better to ere on the side of caution like Paradox have.



There are 195 countries in the world and numerous private entities you can buy resources from in the real world. Short of a World war, its fairly easy to find someone to sell you vital resources and equipment.

In Stellaris there are far less entities and with the current mechanics it would be incredibly easy to have no access to a lot of vital resources.

I totally agree with this. Stellaris is a strategy game that requires careful planning to maximize results. Throwing in an overpowering resource would randomize the game more than it is already (I do like some random though for flavor). I preferred the old system, where maybe the resources were stronger, but could only be used once per resource. I remember Neutronium Ore was worth fighting over to get 50%+ armor, which could make super powerful battleships. Of course, it was rare and you could only use it at one shipyard, so the benefit was constrained. Maybe some resources provide an empire wide benefit that is weaker, and some are one use building/module specific that are stronger. Or like the old version, there is an empire wide building you make, like an satarene refinery that adds 5% ethos covergence, but you can also build a single planet version that adds 20%, so its useful for a valuable and distant colony.

 

[rcasale]

I totally agree with this. Stellaris is a strategy game that requires careful planning to maximize results. Throwing in an overpowering resource would randomize the game more than it is already (I do like some random though for flavor). I preferred the old system, where maybe the resources were stronger, but could only be used once per resource. I remember Neutronium Ore was worth fighting over to get 50%+ armor, which could make super powerful battleships. Of course, it was rare and you could only use it at one shipyard, so the benefit was constrained. Maybe some resources provide an empire wide benefit that is weaker, and some are one use building/module specific that are stronger. Or like the old version, there is an empire wide building you make, like an satarene refinery that adds 5% ethos covergence, but you can also build a single planet version that adds 20%, so its useful for a valuable and distant colony.

You know, the old system is sounding better and better. Actually, the only real issue with it was a UI issue. If you could get around that, then it would be a great system.

 

[AlphaAsh]

Sounds like not only a nerf to tall empires but a flat removal of them as a play style. And in the worst case a force game reset with bad RNG.

This sounds more like something for a mod than the main game

Disagree. A tall empire could more rapidly tech an alternative path/solution. Whilst the fat empires are squabbling over awesomesauceium, the tall empire has already developed micro-super-noneedforawesomesauceium-reactors.

 

[Oscot]

It is very dangerous to make resources too vital and rare; having late game wars decided based on a hidden dice roll at the start is not healthy for the game.

Well late game wars wouldn't be decided on a start game dice roll if combat were more strategic than "who brought the best doomstack".

In EUIV if you fight with a better general defending on a mountain river, battles aren't decided on the pre-battle stack strength.
Resource control only becomes military destiny in Stellaris because all battlefields (and to a large extent all generals) are exactly the same.