A Test of Two Theories: [IN] England Learning AAR

[unmerged(63467)]

@HeilagOlav: welcome to the thread! A century and a bit in, the strategy seems to be working quite well. I might blob up right near the end, if I need to take on Ming for example, but for present purposes I can be the richest nation in the game with a comparatively small landmass if I rely on my vassals. And as I came to realise, once you have over 15 allied vassals all of which maintain their own armed forces it's hard to find anyone to DoW you directly, which gives you all the advantage of a large standing army without paying for the damn thing.

Back to the story. As we left it, England was tired of fighting endless wars and was looking forward to a good while of nice, comfortable peace, retrenchment and diminishing revolt risk. Our target is Gov Tech 9, for the second idea. As inflation's running quite high at 13.6% (comfortably ahead of even the most spendthrift competitor), I decide on National Bank. This comes on 7 June.

Five further relaxing years follow, when the old monarch Charles I James (a name to conjure by) collapses after a ridiculously long reign. Never mind Queen Victoria, Methusalah has nothing on some of the rulers in this game. His replacement, George I, as actually rather good, having a very respectable 5/8/5 Adm/Dip/Mil.

The peace holds, with a number of cheer-inducing events:

• 
  Toulouse becomes a core province;

• 
  I get a master of mint, further reducing inflation;

• 
  The kerns tear down that silly black and white imitation saltire and put up a good old cross of St. George (Cornwall gets English culture); and

• 
  The (tiny) English-speaking world collapses into hideous uncontrollable laughter when it is announced that the Fuggers have taken over all financial power in a major European power, leaving the Austrian herald staring in bewilderment at King George and his giggling courtiers.

There follows a long period of peace, ultimately ruined by villainous expander...Portugal??? Yes, being busted down to a two-European-Province minor by Castile was evidently such a blow to the heavily mustachioed nobles of Lisbon that Portugal has spent the better part of a century now going totally batshit loco aggressive on unoffending North African nations. To preserve English prestige I've gone along with most of these wars, despite the delay to wearing down my war exhaustion. However, when the rabid, frothing Portuguese ambassador informs me between biting chunks out of the table that they are so desperate to attack Algiers that they're breaking the truce they made two fucking days ago, that's it, and I break our oldest alliance. Anyway, who needs real allies now I have my minion hordes of vassals to do my fighting instead?

Oh, and Milan keeps asking me for an alliance. I suspect it is sensibly concerned about the great Austrian blob. I have no intention of being dragged into war, but decide it's prudent to guarantee Milan's independence.

Further good peaceful advances see me obtaining cores on Anjou and Poitou - very good news, which cheers me mightily. Better still is this:

Cosmopolitaine accepted as culture. In other news: share prices rise for retailers of Latte, Sushi.

This update concludes with a friendly mapmaker deciding that the border with Hainaut actually is over THERE, in land that Hainaut is currently (and quite unjustifiably) occupying. The boundary dispute gives me a core (and thus a Casus Belli), so it's time to break out the weapons again! Hainaut's allies: France, Savoy, Bavaria.

*Aha! A boundary dispute gives me a Casus Belli against Hainaut. Time to break out the war-tools again. Allies: France, Savoy. Bavaria, which is a shame but can't be helped.

War will be declared very shortly. Suggestions welcome for what to do next. I'm very keen to know more about destroying the CoTs, as it seems that they need to fall below a certain value before I can eliminate them: can I do anything to affect this threshold?

 

[unmerged(92044)]

IME, you don't take the stab hit from breaking the truce if you're honoring an alliance.

 

[unmerged(63467)]

IME, you don't take the stab hit from breaking the truce if you're honoring an alliance.

It's an odd one. I certainly did get the -5 indicator showing up, which spooked me enough that I finished the pointless alliance with Portugal then and there.

In any case, the Portuguese leadership must have been having a collective REALLY bad trip at that point. Who the hell breaks a truce for an extra 1.5 value fish farm in North Africa?

 

[unmerged(92044)]

It's an odd one. I certainly did get the -5 indicator showing up, which spooked me enough that I finished the pointless alliance with Portugal then and there.

In any case, the Portuguese leadership must have been having a collective REALLY bad trip at that point. Who the hell breaks a truce for an extra 1.5 value fish farm in North Africa?

Oh, yeah, it shows up but it doesn't actually drop you by 5.

I dunno, I might just do it for some tuna.

 

[unmerged(7509)]

Hi Beefeater! This is a really good AAR so far, although you seem to be taking a little more land than indicated in your first post, but then again who can help when it's all there for the taking?

You shouldn't destroy CoTs ever. If they are filled with merchants they provide an extra income of 60 gold a year. Just go and look at the harbour fees in your income ledger. You definately want to keep those. In addition to that is of course the direct tax bonus, which is also substantial.

 

[unmerged(63467)]

Hi Rasmus and thanks! I'll probably vassalise most of my French holdings in due course, by which I mean once the religious turmoil of the 16th century has died down a bit. Things are going to get very messy very soon. There are also a couple of very high value provinces that I do want to hold onto directly, and some provinces which the nations I have been fighting have not been able to surrender other than to me as there are no rebel nations with a core on them. Still, broadly speaking I haven't grown where I could vassalise, and I think it works: France at least is looking a lot more colourful than it usually does after a century or so.

Good to know that about the COTs. I'll hold onto them. It's a shame though, as the idea of running into other peoples' countries, destroying their COTs and then running out again (perhaps selling back the COT-free province to add insult to injury) does quite appeal.

 

[unddu]

13.6% inflation


That's insanely high, even with the national bank that is gonna take you 136 years (!) to remove!


As a rule of thumb, never go above 2% inflation and only go to 2% inflation if you're nation is in very dire straits.


This means that your tech is more than 13% more expensive then that of your neighbour and units are more expensive as well!

 

[Landwalker]

As a rule of thumb, never go above 2% inflation and only go to 2% inflation if you're nation is in very dire straits.

How on earth do you manage to do that? Minting just enough to not go broke usually means I gain .15-.25 inflation every year...

Cheers.

 

[unmerged(7509)]

How on earth do you manage to do that? Minting just enough to not go broke usually means I gain .15-.25 inflation every year...

Cheers.

It comes with experience, and Unddu has plenty of that

Seriously though, I absolutely hate inflation too, and that's why national bank is almost always my first choice for national idea. Other than that I let my economy set the limit of my expansion, and I don't go beyond that limit unless absolutely necessary.

 

[unmerged(63467)]

I'm going to put up an alternative theory here. I mint like crazy early on to make sure that I win my early wars, including wars that I have had thrust upon me rather than had planned. Thereafter I have a large enough base income at year end not to need to mint at all. And, because I've won all my wars up to that point, my neighbours (whom I've been warring against) start going bust. Seriously, it hasn't impacted my tech lead yet in the areas I push for (Land and Government Tech).

I honestly haven't felt any very bad effects from this: since National Bank is always either my first or my second NI, I'm usually down to a reasonable (<2%) level by the mid 1500s and it never creeps up again thereafter.

 

[conmcb25]

What do you think allowed you to win that first major land battle in France? I can never seem to get past the first war with a substantial victory?

 

[unmerged(37697)]

What do you think allowed you to win that first major land battle in France? I can never seem to get past the first war with a substantial victory?

Sir,

"ENGLAND CONFIDES THAT EVERY MAN WILL DO HIS DUTY."

Such things do not change.

James.

 

[unmerged(63467)]

What do you think allowed you to win that first major land battle in France? I can never seem to get past the first war with a substantial victory?

The secret to beating a stronger opponent is winning battles that annihilate whole armies at a time. It's actually quite tricky as France is spectacularly well set-up for that early war, having:

• A superb leader in its monarch;

• A larger army and more manpower than England; and

• Only two land provinces to siege, neither of which England can reach easily (Gascogne and Saintonge - however, the flip side is that your navy should be able to keep France from landing in England. This is why you need to take Scotland out of the war as a priority).

However, AI France c.1399 has three weaknesses that let an England player prepared to invest heavily in cavalry win that early war:

• it builds balanced armies with a good mix of infantry and cavalry. In the age of muskets this is sensible, but before firearms take over, cavalry really is king because of the x4 casualties caused in shock;

• it builds a huge army and focuses it on defeating your biggest stack or capturing provinces instead of smaller, more mobile armies; and

• it builds reinforcements in its home provinces and walks them to the front unit-by-unit, instead of forming larger sub-armies.

The first point has two consequences: (i) if you can get an all-cavalry army of equal or greater size to your opponent's biggest stack, you can beat its morale down in the shock phase; and (ii) your all-cavalry army will ALWAYS reach the province it retreats into before the enemy does, allowing you a good chance at encircling and destroying the beaten army when it arrives and making it all the more likely that you will keep it on the run even if you don't annihilate it. Repeat this with each major stack that is formed. This is the most difficult and delicate bit to get right; don't be afraid to retreat your forces to regroup if the battle isn't going well, and if your manpower and economy permits, keep a smaller but decent-sized cavalry unit to cover your retreat if necessary by engaging the enemy so as to avoid your regiments being annihilated.

The second point means that if you can attack on several fronts you can outmaneuver the AI, keeping it marching around and suffering attrition, and shadowing it with your all-cavalry forces until the moment is right to attack (generally when the enemy stack is in a plains province without a river beween you and it. If you actually managed to capture a province in the process, that's a good place for the battle too).

The third point means that you can eat up the AI's manpower by using a small cavalry detachment (I use units of 5,000, which may not be optimum) to attack and wipe out each new regiment as soon as it is built. I have never seen the AI do this to me, but then I've not yet found myself building reinforcement regiments during a war.

There are doubtless better ways of fighting the initial war with France than this, but this is the method I have used for every war in the game so far and it has not yet failed me once.

 

[unddu]

The 13.6% Inflation means a long term loss for a short term gain.

Yes, you can win your early wars much, much easier. But you can also win them *without* minting! There is no need to mint that much at all, even with a 1 or two province minor, the only problem that pops up is not money, but WE/MP/BB.

Perhaps it's because I'm a player that is fysically unable to do anything in game that will hurt me on the long term, but if a war is going to cost me more than 1% inflation to win, I generally don't start the war. I'm usually at 0% inflation as of 1430 and continue to be at 0% until 1821.


I can only agree to your analysis of the HYW though ^^

 

[unmerged(63467)]

@unddu - on reflection it is undoubtedly possible to win without minting. It is a bit harder though, and requires more patience, which is where I fall down. Minting gets me big armies and lots of money early doors.

I'm curious whether there are any circumstances where the cumulative benefit of minting could (in terms of opportunity cost) meet or exceed the benefits of keeping inflation low, though. I'll leave that one to somebody more mathematically inclined than me.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Before you will destroy the COT you need to make have another one on your own territiory - i think... but there is another posssibility - you can just try to make the COT fall - take all provinces around it, and provinces around that provinces, give the COT to some small country, embargo it, declare war on it, and make them down. Then, just wait until the COT falls, by an event(i think) - it will not give you prestige hit. I think just 2 provinces between, not letting them pass, may made them unable to trade. But it can be hard(i am trying it as poland to samarkand - i will give a screen if i will made it - to show it is possible or not. Remember to not take the peace deal before COT falls - it can give them chances to not letting you destroy the COT. Best will be if COT will be the capital of country - they will have no other provinces to trade with.

 

[unmerged(111870)]

The 13.6% Inflation means a long term loss for a short term gain.

Yes, you can win your early wars much, much easier. But you can also win them *without* minting! There is no need to mint that much at all, even with a 1 or two province minor, the only problem that pops up is not money, but WE/MP/BB.

Perhaps it's because I'm a player that is fysically unable to do anything in game that will hurt me on the long term, but if a war is going to cost me more than 1% inflation to win, I generally don't start the war. I'm usually at 0% inflation as of 1430 and continue to be at 0% until 1821.


I can only agree to your analysis of the HYW though ^^

What really Keeps me minting is primarily rebels in an expanded empire, and earlier on; maintaining defensive armies against larger opponents.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Inflation is a bad thing. But while it is on level of 10-20 % it is not very dangerous after all. But when it is higher - you should beware!