Last September I started a thread with the intent to provide a community solution to balance in Multiplayer. That concept didn't pan out the way I hoped. If you want to read my tale of woe, click the spoiler. If you want to skip the background, see below. The content of this post is very different than the first thread so I felt it needed its own vein of discussion free from the clutter of the old thread.
This is my humble second attempt at suggesting a solution to balance in multiplayer. It is a paradigm shift from the concept of battle value. Or rather a static battle value that becomes stale over time and would itself need to be adjusted. This concept is dynamic and adjusts as the mindset of players adjust.
This concept is not borne entirely from one person but is a chimera of ideas from several players. Most notably @Prussian Havoc @WilliamVonBillhelmHelmet and @R1H4. I'm simply putting them down to collect the idea in one place. I hope it is clear as it may seem complex at first. It is as simple as drop down menus. Please consider the below and comment, question, and debate. I'll do my best to answer questions and resolve concerns. My sincere hope is our discussion helps HBS with a way forward that is in the best interest of the players and the game.
When a player clicks on create game and is brought to the game settings screen, I suggest the following additions:
1) Under the Lobby name is a dropdown menu that needs to have "Mech Draft" added as an option.
A) Selecting Mech Draft will grey out the check boxes for "Require Full Lance" and "Require Stock Mechs"
B) Selecting Mech Draft will auto uncheck "Require Full Lance" and auto check "Require Stock Mechs"
C) Selecting Mech Draft will populate a new button labeled "Mech Draft Settings"
2) Clicking on Mech Draft settings will bring the host player to a new window much like the difficulty settings for campaign and career mode with the following drop down selections:
A) Lance size: Options are 1, 2, 3, 4, or Asymmetric (Suggested Default: 4)
I) Asymmetric will allow a lance to reach the Funds Limit without being required to fill the lance with 4 mechs.
B) Funds Limit: Options are 15 Million C-Bills, 20 Million C-Bills, 25 Million C-Bills, or Unlimited (Suggested Default: Unlimited)
C) Chassis Availability: Options are Open, Limited, or Exclusive (Suggested Default: Open)
I) Open: Any mech may be selected for the lance regardless if it has been selected before or how many times before. The only limit is the Lance Size, and Funds Limit options. In the case of a funds limit, Mechs that would max out or surpass the funds limit would be grayed out and non-selectable.
II) Limited: A chassis may be selected a maximum of two times. In the case of a Mirror Lance, two of the same chassis in the lance. In a Unique Lance, only one of the chassis can be in each lance. I.E. the Guest picks HBK-4P. That is one selection. Now the host Picks HBK-4P. That is two selections and the HBK-4P is grayed out and no longer selectable.
III) Exclusive: A chassis may only be picked one time. Once picked it cannot be picked again.
D) Lance Type: Options are Mirror Lance, Unique Lance. (Suggested Default: Mirror Lance)
I) Mirror Lance: Both players are going to use the same lance. (If Lance size is set to 1, the first mech picked ends the draft. See pick order.)
II) Unique Lance: Both players will select their own lance based on availability as set by Lance Size, Funds Limit, and Chassis Availability.
E) Blind Pick: Options are Yes or No (Suggested Default: No)
I) If Yes then opponents cannot see what their opponent picks. When the Guest Picks a HBK-4P the Host will know that the Guess has picked, but will know nothing about that pick.
II) If Chassis Availability is Limited or Exclusive the option for Yes is unavailable
III) If Lance Type is Mirror Lance the option for Yes is unavailable.
E) Pick Order: Options are Alternating, Weighted, Full Selection (Suggested Default: Alternating)
I) Alternating: The guest player will pick a single Mech first. Then the host will pick a mech. This continues until the max number of Mechs per lance has been reached, or In the case of a funds limit, Mechs that would max out or surpass the funds limit would be grayed out and non-selectable. Players cannot undo a pick during the draft so if the funds limit was reached the players picks are over.
II) Weighted: The guest player has the first pick. The host then picks twice. After that the picks continue in alternate fashion as described above. Funds limit restricts selections the same way as described above.
III) Full Selection: The guest player picks all of the mechs allowed by lance size and funds limit. Once the lance for the guest is complete, and if Mirror Lance is selected the draft is completed. IF Unique Lance is selected the host then selects their entire lance.
F) Pick Time Limit: Options are None, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds, or 120 seconds (Suggested Default: None)
I) On time out the player forfeits his pick. If the player forfeits two consecutive picks the draft is ended and the lobby is closed without a battle played as it is assumed that the player is AFK.
G) Mech Ban: Options are None, 2, 4, or 6 (Suggested Default: None)
I) If 2, 4, or 6 is selected then before any chassis is picked, players alternate banning chassis from selection. The order of ban is the same as selected in Pick Order. A banned chassis may not be selected for a lance and will have a big red X over it.
H) Mechwarrior Ban: Options are None, 2, or 4 (Suggested Default: None)
I) If 2 or 4 is selected then the players alternate banning Mechwarriors from selection. The order of ban is the same as selected in Pick Order.
Once these settings have been selected by the host, they click done. Once the map and mood are set the host clicks "Create Game." The host waits for their OPFOR to join the match. When both players click ready they are bought to the Draft Screen which should show available mechs much like the mech bay, a window for each lance as it is selected and who's turn it is to pick. A timer if selected in the options should be near the players name who is picking. As mechs are picked they populate in the window for each lance (In both windows in the case of Mirror Lance). After all the mechs are picked each player is then moved to the lance window where pilots are selected for each mech. The difference is that mechs cannot be changed in this window. Banned Pilots will have a large red X over their portrait and will not be available for selection. Once the pilots are picked and both players ready up the battle will start as normal.
So how does all of this solve balance in any way?
With the exception of the funding limit, none of these options rely on the price of the mechs. The price of the mechs is the primary factor in the perception of if that stock mech is balanced or not. A favorite example among players who participated in the Valhalla Tournament of Champions is the Firestarter.
A Firestarter is very fast, has good armor for a light mech, and has a powerful tool with it's flamers. While almost any player from the Valhalla Tournament can agree that the Firestarter is priced incorrectly for what it's actually worth, not a single player I talked to could agree on what it should be priced.
These options remove the price from the question of balance. The settings will determine how many Firestarters are going to show up on the field. None if it's banned. @Prussian Havoc who organized the Valhalla Tournament could have required that Chassis Availability be set to limited and the Pick Order be set to Alternate. With these settings if the guest picked a Firestarter, the host would then be able to pick a Firestarter. After that no more Firestarters would be selected. In a way this artificially raises the price of a Firestarter. It can't be selected a third time.
The options allow for numerous scenarios to develop on how many Firestarters would be in a lance. Or they could be banned all together. The tournament could have been a mirror match. It doesn't matter what a Firestarter costs or how many there are when both players have the exact same mechs. The deciding factor now is how well they are used and RNG. (With Battletech there is always RNG)
The players who enjoy Inner Sphere Wars may not use the mech draft at all. And thus their system is not affected by price changes. OR they may find use of the mech draft system. Again how those players chose to use the available options gives them full control of their own experience. Changing base settings like price could alter ISW and how they play. That's not fair for them and this avoids the problem.
I'm not sure I can articulate this idea well so please, comment and I will do my best to clarify. I intend to submit the above as a suggestion. Any feedback here will help me write a more clarified post in the suggestions forum and I can link back to this post for the Devs so they can see the full community response.
Thank you for your time.
The seemingly simple question of how to balance the Multiplayer aspect of this game has plagued me for the better part of a year now. I started this endeavor with a naive assumption; if we as community looked at the problem closely we would find a solution fairly quickly. The challenge of presenting a solution was further complicated by the fact that not all of the players involved see balance in the same way.
Even if I found a solution it would only be viewed as such by someone with my same perspective. What I saw as balance may be seen as gross imbalance by someone else. I have spoken with several players on this subject. I received a lot of mathematical assistance from R1H1. Prussian Havoc and I have discussed this. During matches simple points of view from players like Horus and Raxxel have given me perspectives I never considered. Some of the players I spoke with disagreed with me so much that the topic steered away from constructive reasoning to combative language that didn't solve anything.
To quote a character from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, "I'd rather be happy than right any day."
That thought popped into my mind after one of the ugly word fights I had with another player. In the end neither one of us was happy. Nor can either one of us claim we are "right" simply because we say so. Even worse, that argument may have closed the door to playing a game with them. That is the very opposite of what I'm trying to do. I want more people to play with. I want a larger MP community. I want rivals like William Von Billhelm Helmet who are good friends and a joy to play even when I know victory is going to be nigh impossible.
But the argument left a bitter taste in my mouth. I was as much to blame as he who I had the argument with. I felt defeated and quite frankly I gave up on this for a while. I had too much in the real world I had to deal with. I certainly didn't have time for a game. More specifically, I didn't have time to work on a solution that in the end would just be a suggestion that may ultimately end with a polite "thanks but no thanks" from the developer. I had lost and it was time to move on.
I've got a desk valet with an inscription on it that states, "You win or you learn. There is no losing." I see it every day because it holds my keys, my glasses, and my wallet. I hadn't lost. I'd quit. If I wanted to avoid failure I needed to apply the lesson and try again.
Even if I found a solution it would only be viewed as such by someone with my same perspective. What I saw as balance may be seen as gross imbalance by someone else. I have spoken with several players on this subject. I received a lot of mathematical assistance from R1H1. Prussian Havoc and I have discussed this. During matches simple points of view from players like Horus and Raxxel have given me perspectives I never considered. Some of the players I spoke with disagreed with me so much that the topic steered away from constructive reasoning to combative language that didn't solve anything.
To quote a character from The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, "I'd rather be happy than right any day."
That thought popped into my mind after one of the ugly word fights I had with another player. In the end neither one of us was happy. Nor can either one of us claim we are "right" simply because we say so. Even worse, that argument may have closed the door to playing a game with them. That is the very opposite of what I'm trying to do. I want more people to play with. I want a larger MP community. I want rivals like William Von Billhelm Helmet who are good friends and a joy to play even when I know victory is going to be nigh impossible.
But the argument left a bitter taste in my mouth. I was as much to blame as he who I had the argument with. I felt defeated and quite frankly I gave up on this for a while. I had too much in the real world I had to deal with. I certainly didn't have time for a game. More specifically, I didn't have time to work on a solution that in the end would just be a suggestion that may ultimately end with a polite "thanks but no thanks" from the developer. I had lost and it was time to move on.
I've got a desk valet with an inscription on it that states, "You win or you learn. There is no losing." I see it every day because it holds my keys, my glasses, and my wallet. I hadn't lost. I'd quit. If I wanted to avoid failure I needed to apply the lesson and try again.
This is my humble second attempt at suggesting a solution to balance in multiplayer. It is a paradigm shift from the concept of battle value. Or rather a static battle value that becomes stale over time and would itself need to be adjusted. This concept is dynamic and adjusts as the mindset of players adjust.
This concept is not borne entirely from one person but is a chimera of ideas from several players. Most notably @Prussian Havoc @WilliamVonBillhelmHelmet and @R1H4. I'm simply putting them down to collect the idea in one place. I hope it is clear as it may seem complex at first. It is as simple as drop down menus. Please consider the below and comment, question, and debate. I'll do my best to answer questions and resolve concerns. My sincere hope is our discussion helps HBS with a way forward that is in the best interest of the players and the game.
When a player clicks on create game and is brought to the game settings screen, I suggest the following additions:
1) Under the Lobby name is a dropdown menu that needs to have "Mech Draft" added as an option.
A) Selecting Mech Draft will grey out the check boxes for "Require Full Lance" and "Require Stock Mechs"
B) Selecting Mech Draft will auto uncheck "Require Full Lance" and auto check "Require Stock Mechs"
C) Selecting Mech Draft will populate a new button labeled "Mech Draft Settings"
2) Clicking on Mech Draft settings will bring the host player to a new window much like the difficulty settings for campaign and career mode with the following drop down selections:
A) Lance size: Options are 1, 2, 3, 4, or Asymmetric (Suggested Default: 4)
I) Asymmetric will allow a lance to reach the Funds Limit without being required to fill the lance with 4 mechs.
B) Funds Limit: Options are 15 Million C-Bills, 20 Million C-Bills, 25 Million C-Bills, or Unlimited (Suggested Default: Unlimited)
C) Chassis Availability: Options are Open, Limited, or Exclusive (Suggested Default: Open)
I) Open: Any mech may be selected for the lance regardless if it has been selected before or how many times before. The only limit is the Lance Size, and Funds Limit options. In the case of a funds limit, Mechs that would max out or surpass the funds limit would be grayed out and non-selectable.
II) Limited: A chassis may be selected a maximum of two times. In the case of a Mirror Lance, two of the same chassis in the lance. In a Unique Lance, only one of the chassis can be in each lance. I.E. the Guest picks HBK-4P. That is one selection. Now the host Picks HBK-4P. That is two selections and the HBK-4P is grayed out and no longer selectable.
III) Exclusive: A chassis may only be picked one time. Once picked it cannot be picked again.
D) Lance Type: Options are Mirror Lance, Unique Lance. (Suggested Default: Mirror Lance)
I) Mirror Lance: Both players are going to use the same lance. (If Lance size is set to 1, the first mech picked ends the draft. See pick order.)
II) Unique Lance: Both players will select their own lance based on availability as set by Lance Size, Funds Limit, and Chassis Availability.
E) Blind Pick: Options are Yes or No (Suggested Default: No)
I) If Yes then opponents cannot see what their opponent picks. When the Guest Picks a HBK-4P the Host will know that the Guess has picked, but will know nothing about that pick.
II) If Chassis Availability is Limited or Exclusive the option for Yes is unavailable
III) If Lance Type is Mirror Lance the option for Yes is unavailable.
E) Pick Order: Options are Alternating, Weighted, Full Selection (Suggested Default: Alternating)
I) Alternating: The guest player will pick a single Mech first. Then the host will pick a mech. This continues until the max number of Mechs per lance has been reached, or In the case of a funds limit, Mechs that would max out or surpass the funds limit would be grayed out and non-selectable. Players cannot undo a pick during the draft so if the funds limit was reached the players picks are over.
II) Weighted: The guest player has the first pick. The host then picks twice. After that the picks continue in alternate fashion as described above. Funds limit restricts selections the same way as described above.
III) Full Selection: The guest player picks all of the mechs allowed by lance size and funds limit. Once the lance for the guest is complete, and if Mirror Lance is selected the draft is completed. IF Unique Lance is selected the host then selects their entire lance.
F) Pick Time Limit: Options are None, 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90 seconds, or 120 seconds (Suggested Default: None)
I) On time out the player forfeits his pick. If the player forfeits two consecutive picks the draft is ended and the lobby is closed without a battle played as it is assumed that the player is AFK.
G) Mech Ban: Options are None, 2, 4, or 6 (Suggested Default: None)
I) If 2, 4, or 6 is selected then before any chassis is picked, players alternate banning chassis from selection. The order of ban is the same as selected in Pick Order. A banned chassis may not be selected for a lance and will have a big red X over it.
H) Mechwarrior Ban: Options are None, 2, or 4 (Suggested Default: None)
I) If 2 or 4 is selected then the players alternate banning Mechwarriors from selection. The order of ban is the same as selected in Pick Order.
Once these settings have been selected by the host, they click done. Once the map and mood are set the host clicks "Create Game." The host waits for their OPFOR to join the match. When both players click ready they are bought to the Draft Screen which should show available mechs much like the mech bay, a window for each lance as it is selected and who's turn it is to pick. A timer if selected in the options should be near the players name who is picking. As mechs are picked they populate in the window for each lance (In both windows in the case of Mirror Lance). After all the mechs are picked each player is then moved to the lance window where pilots are selected for each mech. The difference is that mechs cannot be changed in this window. Banned Pilots will have a large red X over their portrait and will not be available for selection. Once the pilots are picked and both players ready up the battle will start as normal.
So how does all of this solve balance in any way?
With the exception of the funding limit, none of these options rely on the price of the mechs. The price of the mechs is the primary factor in the perception of if that stock mech is balanced or not. A favorite example among players who participated in the Valhalla Tournament of Champions is the Firestarter.
A Firestarter is very fast, has good armor for a light mech, and has a powerful tool with it's flamers. While almost any player from the Valhalla Tournament can agree that the Firestarter is priced incorrectly for what it's actually worth, not a single player I talked to could agree on what it should be priced.
These options remove the price from the question of balance. The settings will determine how many Firestarters are going to show up on the field. None if it's banned. @Prussian Havoc who organized the Valhalla Tournament could have required that Chassis Availability be set to limited and the Pick Order be set to Alternate. With these settings if the guest picked a Firestarter, the host would then be able to pick a Firestarter. After that no more Firestarters would be selected. In a way this artificially raises the price of a Firestarter. It can't be selected a third time.
The options allow for numerous scenarios to develop on how many Firestarters would be in a lance. Or they could be banned all together. The tournament could have been a mirror match. It doesn't matter what a Firestarter costs or how many there are when both players have the exact same mechs. The deciding factor now is how well they are used and RNG. (With Battletech there is always RNG)
The players who enjoy Inner Sphere Wars may not use the mech draft at all. And thus their system is not affected by price changes. OR they may find use of the mech draft system. Again how those players chose to use the available options gives them full control of their own experience. Changing base settings like price could alter ISW and how they play. That's not fair for them and this avoids the problem.
I'm not sure I can articulate this idea well so please, comment and I will do my best to clarify. I intend to submit the above as a suggestion. Any feedback here will help me write a more clarified post in the suggestions forum and I can link back to this post for the Devs so they can see the full community response.
Thank you for your time.
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