A small note from a guy who didn't vote for this project
- Thread starter Fredrik II
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Micromanagement can be cool sometimes, when it actually makes you feel like you're running a country (making decisions about tarriffs and laws, etc.), but not when it feels completely abstract and unrealistic (POP splitting? How does that even relate to reality - see my post in the POPs thread). I certainly don't want the game dumbed down, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas that can be streamlined.
Completely unrealistic and tedious micromanagement that left the random player with a sour taste in his mouth? If you've got a Grand Strategy game and all you care about is pops, something is wrong. The state, the player, should only set policies, reforms, wage war, make diplomatic ventures, offer the incentive for exploration. Read the "POPS" thread in this subforum, it has a good idea about how your society should look in Vicky2: informative and easy to use.
If Vicky 2 retains PoPs as a working unit (therefore letting the AI use its "intelligence" to manipulate them), I'm afraid this game will be dissapointed to the same people that could have turn it into a cash-cow.
Wow my first time Emuing someone! 
Anyway I really do hope this game makes a profit, I'd love if Paradox got rewarded for 'riskier' projects like this.
Anyway I really do hope this game makes a profit, I'd love if Paradox got rewarded for 'riskier' projects like this.
Oh, I'm not saying that Victoria's system was perfect, just saying that they should not dumb it down in order to attract more players.
Dumb it down? Victoria is not that complicated when you compare it to HoI3 or EU3.
People are different, I guess. I picked up HOI3, which some people complain about being too complicated, in a few sittings, with little to no frustration on my end. It felt (mostly) quite intuitive. I've never been able to figure out Victoria.
Didn't play HOI3, but EU3 is definitely less complicated than Vicky/Ricky in my book. Maybe it's because of the more informative interface though.
Yes, the interface is the main sticking point, I think. It's so confusing, it's hard to focus on learning the mechanics. If it was more streamlined, and more informative, the game itself might not actually be that complicated.
King is right. Vicky was not complicated. But its annoying micromanagement simply forbade a lot of people to enjoy bigger states. It's something wrong when your favourite countries to play with are the South American ones...
The micromanagement didn't bother me. It was more that I couldn't make sense of the information coming at me. Things would happen and I couldn't figure out why, or what the effects were. Hell, the first couple times I played, I got lost in the menues. :rofl: At the risk of sounding immodest, I'm a pretty smart guy. I don't recall ever having that problem before, including with other Paradox games. Again, if the interface could be simplified and made more informative/intuitive, it probably would have solved most of the confusion.
Perhaps, HoI3 I found much easier to start playing, EU3 I didn't play so much so I couldn't very well tell. In the end, Victoria was hard for me to pick up but when I eventually did I found it to be the very best Paradox Grand Strategy game.
That said, a lot of the ways POPs are managed is unrealistic, but I would not like to see stuff like the population abstracted in order to make the game easier to handle.
That said, a lot of the ways POPs are managed is unrealistic, but I would not like to see stuff like the population abstracted in order to make the game easier to handle.
Agreed. I like the POPs concept, although some automation for things like splitting them might not be a bad thing.
I've always found it more like chess - easy to learn, very difficult to master. You can play an enjoyable and relatively successful game without too much fiddling about with micromanaging pops and such, but the intricacies of the system are hard to discover and properly put to use.
Ok you've lot me in this line of reasoning here. Our POP system is both unrealistic and unwieldy and you feel it would be a mistake to do something about this. So you want an unwieldy unrealistic historical game?
Ah, no, I think the POP system is fine in itself, but some of it could be changed to be more realistic (As pointed out in some other threads).
Ah, nevermind, I'm not making any sense today, I'll try to say something only when I have thought out what exactly I wanted to say next time.
I think what he's saying is that he likes the idea, but the way it's managed in-game is unwieldly. Like the ruler of the country personally splitting them up and making them into capitalists and whatnot. If I'm wrong, he can correct me, lol.
Holy Moly! Just poped-in after like 10-12 months of absence here and Vicky 2 announcement is on.
You can't imagine how happy I'm. I will buy it, no matter how long it takes to develop.
Bring it on. Drooling already with excitement.
You can't imagine how happy I'm. I will buy it, no matter how long it takes to develop.
Bring it on. Drooling already with excitement.
Hehe, that could be a fun sight.
That said, given the troubles that were apparently had with the Beta-phase of HOI3 it might be interesting to switch to a Beta-model as employed by those other developers of fun strategy-games Stardock.
A closed barebones alpha, open betas for people who preorder (with the preorder being billed when the beta starts), and a finalising closed gamma (?) before release for some lastditch dedicated bughunting.
Gamersgate is probably able to support such a system, and beta wise it might prevent the problem of having 200 betatesters resulting in only 5 bugs being found or something like that.
That said, given the troubles that were apparently had with the Beta-phase of HOI3 it might be interesting to switch to a Beta-model as employed by those other developers of fun strategy-games Stardock.
A closed barebones alpha, open betas for people who preorder (with the preorder being billed when the beta starts), and a finalising closed gamma (?) before release for some lastditch dedicated bughunting.
Gamersgate is probably able to support such a system, and beta wise it might prevent the problem of having 200 betatesters resulting in only 5 bugs being found or something like that.
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