You voted for Crusader Kings 2, didn't you? C'mon, you can admit it.
We must have it, precioussss.... we neeedddssss it....
Where did that (fake) box art come from?
A small note from a guy who didn't vote for this project
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Where did that (fake) box art come from?
This will be so sweeeeeeet!! 
I will buy a digital and a hard copy to ensure this happens! :rofl:
EDIT: This should be stickied until release! I don't want any shadey thread deletions when it happens!
Also, the dev team (and marketing, for that matter) should receive a pay rise too, when it does!
I will buy a digital and a hard copy to ensure this happens! :rofl:EDIT: This should be stickied until release! I don't want any shadey thread deletions when it happens!
Also, the dev team (and marketing, for that matter) should receive a pay rise too, when it does!
Fred, I will do my best to ensure your head is as clean and shaven as a newborn baby's ass.
Mr. CEO, I do believe you really, really, really underestimates the strength and zeal of We, the Victoria Fanbase.
I do suggest you start considering looking for a properly sharp machete (preferably a Cherokee design) to show that shiney scalp of yours
(what, you thought it would be just going to the barber and that's that?)
I do suggest you start considering looking for a properly sharp machete (preferably a Cherokee design) to show that shiney scalp of yours
(what, you thought it would be just going to the barber and that's that?
)
Maybe you should post paradoxes revenue per retail outlet as well, so we can decide how best to support the developer of the products we buy rather than the retailers who try and shovel used crap at us.
A couple of years ago the rule of thumb was that a boxed copy brought in a developer+publisher about 30 dollars on a 50 dollar sale. But now with online distribution, especially through gamersgate, I'm going to guess the percent is higher. IIRC Vicky was published by Strategy first, whereas everything since then was self published? That would seem to indicate more revenue/copy. Can you get funding from national culture agencies? Maybe they don't exist in Sweden quite the same but in canada if you're making a product like Vicky you could probably be cashing in on some gov't support if you're making it reasonably historically accurate - or at least potentially historically accurate game.
What is your price point? What are you basing the price point on? What does your longer term price curve look like? What sort of Q&A, Q&C processes are you looking at? Sorry, but HOI3 is buggy, as in game killing bugs, which should not have left the door, there are design issues too (next paragraph), but the bugs, like slowdowns and so on don't inspire us to buy the next product. How much are you willing to invest in marketing? Vicky represents very interesting periods in 3 or 4 of the big game market countries. The US civil war, the french republic, empire, republic, WW1, and then German unification and WW1, and Britain's empire management, expansion, and devolution, and WW1. Not that there aren't other interesting countries, but specifically the big markets should get stuff targeted marketing wise at them. It's a tall order, but the game should do a good job of modelling the Westward expansion of the US, WW1, and everythign in between. By controlling the purse strings you can guarantee your hair stays unchanged, as can (what would be in hindsight) wrong managerial choices.
On design. I don't see your sales figures, and in a sense I only speak for myself, but the plethora of negative threads on the HOI3 forum warrant some aggregation. A lot of us, in many cases fans of several years, are not happy with the general direction taken with HOI3, and to a lesser extent, EU3. This *Might* be an implementation problem in some respects, but the lack of detailed historical events doesn't make a lot of us happy. I think there are very different directions that could have been taken that we would have liked. EU3 it was sort of understandable - the period at least needs the option to evolve in a Civilization sort of way, HOI3 is sufficiently short that the events, even simple ones like changes in leaders for government, make significant differences to the flavour and behaviour of the game, their absence shows either a lack of polish, or design we don't like. Vicky is the middle ground, it's kinda short compared to EU, and encapsulates a lot HOI length stuff in it (with long periods of relatively inactivity). That makes it a difficult undertaking, and as inspiring as it is to see the project live, it's hard to jump out and say "I'LL BUY THIS GAME ABSOLUTELY NO MATTER WHAT". Well ok, I probably will, but I'm on the academic side of strategy game development, and vicky was by far my favourite of the Paradox games. There are lots of things I would love to change in the nuts and bolts mechanics, but so much of it is wonderfully fun - and unlike a WW1 or WW2 game where different countries give you a different view of essentially the same events, different countries in Vicky give different takes on different events. Think about Bill Roper's Hellgate lifetime subscription thing (which he has repeated for Champions Online). Even you didn't buy the last one, you heard it didn't work out well, and EU3 to some degree and definitely HOI3 have left a bad taste in our collective mouths - what are you going to do with Vicky, because there's a limit to how much money I will give paradox when the new product is, by at least my own personal measure, inferior to the previous product (see Vista - which took 6 months post release to catch up to XP, and killed their sales and reputation). I want Vicky2 to be to HOI3 what Windows 7 is to vista: there's a good framework there, but a lot of polish is needed. (Note: Much of the actual combat mechanics of HOI3 would probably work well in Vicky, esspecially in the naval spehere).
The negative part said - I love the idea of a new vicky. I would love to help make it good if that's possible. They aren't giving me a PhD in game development for my good looks; AI, rendering, performance, networking, economic modelling, GPU computing (for said economic modelling), I can do. Want to set up a Canadian office so we can leech money from the Canadian heritage foundation (and be forced to include a series of historical events for the creation and continuation of Canada)? I can help. Q/A, testing, debugging whatever. We - the fans- want these games, HOI, EU, Vicky, Rome Crusader kings etc. to be the best games we can get, please don't hesitate to use us as a resource. HOI3 suffers a lot because they let the wrong people into testing, or not enough people, I wasn't in on the testing but I'm going to guess you want people who have the time, skills, and inclination to pick apart the nuts and bolts of things that don't work (like ever expanding save games), we're here, and reading AI game programming Wisdom 1-4 and GPU gems 1-3 is getting boring. Obviously you need the general 'consumer' too, but you need to control their experience - they won't tell you what they don't like, they'll use the beta as a demo on their own, and if they don't like it (which being a beta means they probably won't) they're likely to walk away unless you tie them to a chair and force them to talk about it.
A couple of years ago the rule of thumb was that a boxed copy brought in a developer+publisher about 30 dollars on a 50 dollar sale. But now with online distribution, especially through gamersgate, I'm going to guess the percent is higher. IIRC Vicky was published by Strategy first, whereas everything since then was self published? That would seem to indicate more revenue/copy. Can you get funding from national culture agencies? Maybe they don't exist in Sweden quite the same but in canada if you're making a product like Vicky you could probably be cashing in on some gov't support if you're making it reasonably historically accurate - or at least potentially historically accurate game.
What is your price point? What are you basing the price point on? What does your longer term price curve look like? What sort of Q&A, Q&C processes are you looking at? Sorry, but HOI3 is buggy, as in game killing bugs, which should not have left the door, there are design issues too (next paragraph), but the bugs, like slowdowns and so on don't inspire us to buy the next product. How much are you willing to invest in marketing? Vicky represents very interesting periods in 3 or 4 of the big game market countries. The US civil war, the french republic, empire, republic, WW1, and then German unification and WW1, and Britain's empire management, expansion, and devolution, and WW1. Not that there aren't other interesting countries, but specifically the big markets should get stuff targeted marketing wise at them. It's a tall order, but the game should do a good job of modelling the Westward expansion of the US, WW1, and everythign in between. By controlling the purse strings you can guarantee your hair stays unchanged, as can (what would be in hindsight) wrong managerial choices.
On design. I don't see your sales figures, and in a sense I only speak for myself, but the plethora of negative threads on the HOI3 forum warrant some aggregation. A lot of us, in many cases fans of several years, are not happy with the general direction taken with HOI3, and to a lesser extent, EU3. This *Might* be an implementation problem in some respects, but the lack of detailed historical events doesn't make a lot of us happy. I think there are very different directions that could have been taken that we would have liked. EU3 it was sort of understandable - the period at least needs the option to evolve in a Civilization sort of way, HOI3 is sufficiently short that the events, even simple ones like changes in leaders for government, make significant differences to the flavour and behaviour of the game, their absence shows either a lack of polish, or design we don't like. Vicky is the middle ground, it's kinda short compared to EU, and encapsulates a lot HOI length stuff in it (with long periods of relatively inactivity). That makes it a difficult undertaking, and as inspiring as it is to see the project live, it's hard to jump out and say "I'LL BUY THIS GAME ABSOLUTELY NO MATTER WHAT". Well ok, I probably will, but I'm on the academic side of strategy game development, and vicky was by far my favourite of the Paradox games. There are lots of things I would love to change in the nuts and bolts mechanics, but so much of it is wonderfully fun - and unlike a WW1 or WW2 game where different countries give you a different view of essentially the same events, different countries in Vicky give different takes on different events. Think about Bill Roper's Hellgate lifetime subscription thing (which he has repeated for Champions Online). Even you didn't buy the last one, you heard it didn't work out well, and EU3 to some degree and definitely HOI3 have left a bad taste in our collective mouths - what are you going to do with Vicky, because there's a limit to how much money I will give paradox when the new product is, by at least my own personal measure, inferior to the previous product (see Vista - which took 6 months post release to catch up to XP, and killed their sales and reputation). I want Vicky2 to be to HOI3 what Windows 7 is to vista: there's a good framework there, but a lot of polish is needed. (Note: Much of the actual combat mechanics of HOI3 would probably work well in Vicky, esspecially in the naval spehere).
The negative part said - I love the idea of a new vicky. I would love to help make it good if that's possible. They aren't giving me a PhD in game development for my good looks; AI, rendering, performance, networking, economic modelling, GPU computing (for said economic modelling), I can do. Want to set up a Canadian office so we can leech money from the Canadian heritage foundation (and be forced to include a series of historical events for the creation and continuation of Canada)? I can help. Q/A, testing, debugging whatever. We - the fans- want these games, HOI, EU, Vicky, Rome Crusader kings etc. to be the best games we can get, please don't hesitate to use us as a resource. HOI3 suffers a lot because they let the wrong people into testing, or not enough people, I wasn't in on the testing but I'm going to guess you want people who have the time, skills, and inclination to pick apart the nuts and bolts of things that don't work (like ever expanding save games), we're here, and reading AI game programming Wisdom 1-4 and GPU gems 1-3 is getting boring. Obviously you need the general 'consumer' too, but you need to control their experience - they won't tell you what they don't like, they'll use the beta as a demo on their own, and if they don't like it (which being a beta means they probably won't) they're likely to walk away unless you tie them to a chair and force them to talk about it.
Yep, pasted over some Crusader Kings box art. If it wasn't so shrunken you could see the original art in the bottom bar. I just tacked the II on there.
This is an interesting thread in so many ways... The cynical part of me sees it as a marketing ploy that could be very very successful (it's pretty well doubled the price I'd be prepared to pay, as long as the game looks like it has it all together approaching release). But the rest of me sees it as a fascinating glimpse into the behind the scenes of Paradox, and the very embodiment of why Paradox has hooked me enough to go from unpatched unexpanded Vicky to owning most of the key titles, and spending more time on here than I probably should.
I think that the Vicky timeframe and concept has every possibility of making a commercially viable game, that still works for the die hard fans. As pointed out by another poster, this time frame appeals to the big markets in that they were shaped by this time period. Countries like Canada, Aussie and of course New Zealand were created in this time period. The events of the era shaped the modern world - the roots of WWI, which itself led to WWII and then on to the cold war. Industrialisation, imperialism, nationalism. Science was shaken to the core - Newtonian physics no longer explained everything; the world went from largely explained with a few details to sort out, back to a huge mystery. The emancipation of slaves, women's suffrage, global war, internal unrest and revolution - there is no reason for this not to be the greatest game Paradox has ever made. It has the potential to appeal to a much broader market too - play it if you want to conquer the world; play it if you want to establish a nation as an entity with its own identity; play it to industialise and trade; play it to manipulate politics, oppressing or freeing your people; play it to become a centre of culture and innovation, or any combination of these or other ideas. This is why we love the game, and we're so glad to see a sequel. Please Paradox, don't let us down.
I think that the Vicky timeframe and concept has every possibility of making a commercially viable game, that still works for the die hard fans. As pointed out by another poster, this time frame appeals to the big markets in that they were shaped by this time period. Countries like Canada, Aussie and of course New Zealand were created in this time period. The events of the era shaped the modern world - the roots of WWI, which itself led to WWII and then on to the cold war. Industrialisation, imperialism, nationalism. Science was shaken to the core - Newtonian physics no longer explained everything; the world went from largely explained with a few details to sort out, back to a huge mystery. The emancipation of slaves, women's suffrage, global war, internal unrest and revolution - there is no reason for this not to be the greatest game Paradox has ever made. It has the potential to appeal to a much broader market too - play it if you want to conquer the world; play it if you want to establish a nation as an entity with its own identity; play it to industialise and trade; play it to manipulate politics, oppressing or freeing your people; play it to become a centre of culture and innovation, or any combination of these or other ideas. This is why we love the game, and we're so glad to see a sequel. Please Paradox, don't let us down.
Ashamed as I am to say it, I may be tempted to buy Vicky II - assuming it isn't a complete disaster. o
I hope it's really complex and detailed, but still easy to play.
Dumbed down for a larger audience? *thumbs down*
oI hope it's really complex and detailed, but still easy to play.
Dumbed down for a larger audience? *thumbs down*
We cannot have a CEO running around with a purple beard. No one in the industry would take Paradox seriously.Shaving your head? that's nothing. Do that, then grow a beard and dye it purple!
Haha, I did chuckle at that.No one in the industry would take Paradox seriously.
i think this game will see profit.
The main reason is that Paradox games are more popular than ever at this point, back when Victoria was released you were still more of a smaller company. Now you even have Steam advertising your games.
Your head will be shaved. I know that all the people who post at the paradox section of the twcenter forum will buy this and that is quite a lot.
The main reason is that Paradox games are more popular than ever at this point, back when Victoria was released you were still more of a smaller company. Now you even have Steam advertising your games.
Your head will be shaved. I know that all the people who post at the paradox section of the twcenter forum will buy this and that is quite a lot.
They might, after they've finished ripping out their own major organs after realising they'd spent about $70 on the Empire: TW Special Forces edition only to learn there's going to be a stand-alone expansion and Empire has already reached the end of its production life.
"CA - milking the cash bull since 1987."
It may make a profit - but I could never see Vicky II outselling HOI3 or EU3. I will buy it, but I'm not sure how the bet will turn out.
Sounds like Johan is being indulged - allowed to work on a pet project (with slightly lesser budget, I'm guessing - maybe that's part of the reason for not taking that natural 1820 start date?) now that two cash-cows in a row have been released. Hopefully, he can justify said indulgence by making Vicky 2 pure awesome, and winning his bet.
I'm predicting CK2 after this, though HOI3 expansions will be developing around that time too - I'm not sure if Johan is on expansions team or not.
Sounds like Johan is being indulged - allowed to work on a pet project (with slightly lesser budget, I'm guessing - maybe that's part of the reason for not taking that natural 1820 start date?) now that two cash-cows in a row have been released. Hopefully, he can justify said indulgence by making Vicky 2 pure awesome, and winning his bet.
I'm predicting CK2 after this, though HOI3 expansions will be developing around that time too - I'm not sure if Johan is on expansions team or not.
Interesting post. What makes you say that?
Why would sixteen years make much of a difference budget-wise?
Victoria became queen in 1837 by the way, so I guess 1836 sort of makes sense in that respect.
1820 - 1936 would be a logical time frame, but I guess you'd need a more advanced setup (technology and suchlike) later on.
1820 - 1912 or something sounds about right, TBH. I really think Paradox should make a separate, dedicated WW1 game. Having a world war at the arse end of a larger, more generic game doesn't really make sense IMO.
I'd almost certainly buy a Paradox WW1 game, even if I would never, ever be satisfied with it.
This is exciting and I fully expect to see the Chief Executive Officer's hair vanish
However, I would like to point out what is probably obvious (just in case)...
Paradox Interactive is a publicly traded company, right?
In this forum populated by (largely) satisfied consumers, this is a great laugh.
I beg of you sir, please don't mention this directly to the shareholders in any distinctly different context.
If it gets taken the wrong way- I can see it going down "Dear God man, have you heard that man? This company's leadership is wagering against the success of its own projects! We have to overreact immediately!"- then everyone will lose out.
However, I would like to point out what is probably obvious (just in case)...
Paradox Interactive is a publicly traded company, right?
In this forum populated by (largely) satisfied consumers, this is a great laugh.
I beg of you sir, please don't mention this directly to the shareholders in any distinctly different context.
If it gets taken the wrong way- I can see it going down "Dear God man, have you heard that man? This company's leadership is wagering against the success of its own projects! We have to overreact immediately!"- then everyone will lose out.
Woo Hoo! I have been eagerly anticipating the announcement of Victoria 2 and this is the first I've heard of it. I'll be buying a copy for sure. The CEO's promise made me smile. I like this company.
Still won't buy it. Hope you have a good razor. Let me know when you start work on CK2.
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