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WankoStankins

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Victoria is my favorite single player game ever made, I'll definately get Victoria 2. And I don't think they'll release it too early like they did with HOI3. Must've learned some lessons from that now hmmmmmmmm? I couldn't care less if the graphics didn't change. 3d or 2d whichever one runs faster is best. And to bombshells post, Victoria is all about micromanagement, there's always something to do! To expand a factory, build a fortress, encourage immigration, colonize, conquer, or events. After playing Victoria I scarcely played Europa Universalis 3 ever again. It just seems so boring compared to the depth of Victoria. If they could fix the POP system and Ai then it could be the GREATEST.
 

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I really liked the idea of Victoria's POPs. The problem for me was that too micromanagement was involved, especially when the option to split them was added. With some automatization of POPs, this which is to me the largest flaw in Vicky 1 is solved, thus leading to a much improved game.
 

cmstea0

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If they solve these flaws and merge it with the newer engine id say we have a pretty good game on our hands with prospects for good sales.

merging it with the newer engine will only create trouble. but i guess we're stuck with it.

this sounds crazy, but i've never needed the ledger or the outliner or any of that stuff in my pdox games, and i've always done fine. the WM AI could be improved though. my biggest gripe would be idiot capitalists that only want liquor and canned food in the age of automobiles and powered flight.
 

Orinsul

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Victoria and CK are pretty much the only games I can play on their own that is while not watching television or writing substories into it or something else at the same time, not just paradox i mean computer game their complex and interesting and fun and you can play it and only it becuase theres no drawn out monotony and over simplified dumbdownosity as in most of the market. It shouldnt be stripped of all that makes it Victoria so that the people who want it to be EU or Hearts of Iron can be happy, its not those games and those games exist if they want them, Victoria IS Victoria and so should Victoria II be. Theres a market for a game that actual occupies the player and theres damn near nothing out there to fill it.
And for the people who never worked out how to play, either you could spend an hour or so learning the ropes and that was easy enough or you could take five and look at the handy fold-out card that came in the box that showed what each picture meant and what the different workers did and go from there, now im not a genius far from it in fact can barely count but i mastered the game with very little trouble and without any experience of a paradox title or infact any game like so I really fail to understand why it is that so many people were unable to, possibly trying to use skills developed for EU acts against you or maybe its just for lack of trying who knows.
The Point im trying to make is, Victoria was awesome and as long as they dont do anything daft and out of character Victoria II will be as well and if its good it'll sell and if its very good, as Victoria was itll keep selling long after its times up but if you scrap everything that makes it unique and different from EU than its just a filler until the next EU comes out and forgotten as soon as it does and worth nothing to the world.
 

Garak

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Victoria and CK are pretty much the only games I can play on their own that is while not watching television or writing substories into it or something else at the same time, not just paradox i mean computer game their complex and interesting and fun and you can play it and only it becuase theres no drawn out monotony and over simplified dumbdownosity as in most of the market. It shouldnt be stripped of all that makes it Victoria so that the people who want it to be EU or Hearts of Iron can be happy, its not those games and those games exist if they want them, Victoria IS Victoria and so should Victoria II be. Theres a market for a game that actual occupies the player and theres damn near nothing out there to fill it.
And for the people who never worked out how to play, either you could spend an hour or so learning the ropes and that was easy enough or you could take five and look at the handy fold-out card that came in the box that showed what each picture meant and what the different workers did and go from there, now im not a genius far from it in fact can barely count but i mastered the game with very little trouble and without any experience of a paradox title or infact any game like so I really fail to understand why it is that so many people were unable to, possibly trying to use skills developed for EU acts against you or maybe its just for lack of trying who knows.
The Point im trying to make is, Victoria was awesome and as long as they dont do anything daft and out of character Victoria II will be as well and if its good it'll sell and if its very good, as Victoria was itll keep selling long after its times up but if you scrap everything that makes it unique and different from EU than its just a filler until the next EU comes out and forgotten as soon as it does and worth nothing to the world.

Yeah, that's great... for people who were actually able to get a boxed copy. :rolleyes:
 

Dragoneer

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I dont entirely agree.

I thought Victoria was plenty fun, I just thought that it had 3 game breaking flaws.

One = The AI was awful.
You would have 200 relations with your neighbour and the minute you move your troops away from the border say to prosecute war on another theatre bam they declare war, and your like wtf?
The world market trading you had to deal with all yourself which was boring and repetitive, because the AI did not intelligently buy and sell your stocks. For example you would have factories consistently out of supplies because the AI doesnt buy what you need for them, and if you buy them if the AI is still on it promptly sells whatever stock you bought.

Two = The existance of POPS made the game a micromanagement nightmare.
The pops thing was a good idea to simulate individual cultures/peoples but having to manage your pops more or less yourself at all times mean when you get a bigger Empire the more pops u had to manage meant you were constantly pausing to stop and tweak what they are doing every few turns especially during a war.
Made it very annoying/irritating.

Three = The user interface was perhaps the worst ive seen in any PI game.
It was difficult to navigate and the ledger made the game feel like it was suffering from SpreadSheet syndrome.
No one likes playing a SpreadSheet.

If they solve these flaws and merge it with the newer engine id say we have a pretty good game on our hands with prospects for good sales.

only agree on point 3, pops and the trade was one of the parts that made vicky good and different from other games, please keep these features in the game, when it comes to the ai i have never seen it dow you with 200 relations if you didnt have skyhigh badboy rating. Please keep the options to micromanage this in the game so we micro fans still enjoy the game ;)
 

Reichsmarshall

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lmao.. ok, finally got around to reading some stuff in this forum, and after reading the first post in this thread I will definitely have to buy it now (although I probably would have anyway) :)
 

egslim

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only agree on point 3, pops and the trade was one of the parts that made vicky good and different from other games, please keep these features in the game
The pop-system was fine. The micromanagement to maintain them was not. The fact that the pop-splitter is such a popular (one would almost say, essential) tool, proves the lack of pop-management tools in Victoria is a major issue.

Keep the pops, but make it easier to (semi-) auto-manage them.

Same for trade, keep the goods, but reduce micromanagement required.

Fortunately, I believe Paradox has learned much in this regard. Look at HOI3, where almost everything can be automated, and patch 1.2 will even add autosliders. With similar automation Victoria 2 will become much more accessible.
 

Nikolai

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So if the game doesn't make profit, what will happen to Johan? o.o

Will he get his head shaved, or...?

He's done that before, something new must be come up with.:p
 

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Now that's an effective anti-piracy initiative!

UPD:

To be frank, POPs were exactly what made me love Vic1. Not only they represented the diferent cultures and peoples, they simulated the society with its worries, ambitions and aspirations; its development, the social groups migrations, the evolution of social consciousness and all such stuff. Removing the POPs system would strip Victoria 2 of that special social feel, and how different from any other Paradox game would it then be?
Surely it was a tedious routine to manage POPs all by yourself, but with this new concept of Ai control the POP system could be vastly improved. Why kill it then?

After all, I like to know the country I govern is populated by actual people, not an abstract pie chart.


I think maybe the problem with pops was pop splitting increased (production) efficiency. I hate floating point math the way all good performance oriented computer scientists do, but the bucket system they had for efficiency meant you had to manage the pops a lot or be significantly sub optimal. And unemployed pops migrated making managing your pops for emmigration was a bit harder than I'd like.

So my micromanaging looked like this: I'd figure out the profitable RGO's in whatever country I was playing. and then never expand them. (or maybe expand them once). As those pops got big and filled the RGO I'd split them, so a bunch would be unemployed and emmigrate, usually to my colonies. Everywhere else the goal was to have as may pops as you could populating your factories, and factories as high level as possible. That seemed dumb. Again I know floating point math is bad but a simple # people/(factory_level * 500k) all * modifier for clerks/craftsmen ratio (and then capitalists, infrastructure etc) I think would have resolved one of my issues.

Immigration is a different mess. I'd have built up a 'pool' of national migrants (say every month). And then split them up in parallel amongst all of the places they might go. So area A has a desirability of 5, and all valid areas have a total desirability of 2000 then area a gets 5/2000ths of the pops. Figuring out how to make a pop a migrant is a somewhat different problem, obviously unemployment is part of it, but they should be willing to migrate to anywhere potentially more profitable, and the number willing to move is say 5% of the diffrence in profitabilities between current area, and national profitability average. (I'd have to test that to see if 5% is a good or terrible number). So a pop in london is presumably on the high end of the average, so chances are he won't move. But someone in ireland might be on the low end of the national profit curve, so he looks at all of the places more profitable than where he is, and splits up and goes along to all of those places (including london) - and even the middle of the USA.

Both of these would retain the pop system in general, but eliminate much of the micro managing. The other problem is craftsmen/clerks promotion. I'd have a single pop that is 'factory worker' with the inherent craftsmen/clerks ratio based on education. Capitalists emerge from these at a particular rate - essentially determined how much over the required goods it is (which itself is a product of productivity and education), or you could pay to promote it. There are other, equally good, if not better ways to do it, but that jumps out at me as what I would have done to Vicky1. Vicky2, well depends how you structure 'pops' at all.
 

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  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Wow...I picked the wrong few days to have my ISP go down! I love this thread. :rofl:

Let's take the number of copies Paradox needs to sell to break even, divide it by the number of enthusiastic Johan worshippers on this forum (some of us would go to the jungles of Guyana and drink Flavor-Aid if Johan told us it'd get us an afterlife full of bug-free, fully-modded Paradox games---who needs mortal, earthly life in that instance!), and that's how many copies each of us should buy.
 
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