A simple solution to large retinues and levies.

[MasterOfGrey]

So I've seen several threads complaining about the massive size of armies, the ahistorically large potential retinues etc. So I'd like to propose a simple solution.

--Reduce the number of troops provided by all holdings structures by 30-50%.
Since armies get ridiculously large late game such that supply limits kill thousands of men when the AI even looks at a doomstack this should minimise that problem a little. This will have the added benefit of reducing the maximum retinue sizes which also tend to get ridiculous. (Also makes it far less likely that a count in Ireland can have a retinue - a problem I'm seeing in my current game and doesn't seem realistic.)

--Make the knights retinue require king-level title.
Now this could still have some quirky results with small kingdoms but this at least will make the appearance of large amounts of heavy cavalry in a retinue limited to actual kings, people likely to have actually significant realms.

-- Reduce vassal levy contribution to retinue cap by 30-50%
Again this is designed to reduce the ridiculous size of retinues late game. Your personal demesne will net you a standard retinue but the combination of your vassals requires a much larger realm to get a significantly larger retinue. Late-game retinues will still basically act as a standing army, but it makes them more realistic early game.

Lastly these things combined will help stop mercenaries becoming laughably insignificant by 1250. Sure they were a small thing by the end of the game but they still had a large impact on wars in 1250. (Additionally the various republics should be much more likely to hire mercs if they have the money, I'm sick of seeing Venice fail so epically once it's won land and then decides to use only its levies to defend against muslim invasions even though it's sitting on 9000 gold which could be used to stomp them with mercenaries.)

Edit: Added bonus, this reduces the edge muslim nations have over christian nations in the start, but most significantly in Iberia. Meanwhile it reduces the edge Byzantium has over Persia instead, making the new ERE less likely to survive in total glory until the coming of the Mongols (as has happened in all 3 of my games since LoR and seems to be happening more frequently elsewhere if the Empires and Screenshots threads are anything to go by.)

 

[XRW]

I don't think that there being to many troops in holdings is the problem. The Military Organization tech simply assigns a much to large percentage of troops to the retinues pool.

2 things should happen.

1. The tech gives more like 2% instead of 10% of your realm manpower to your retinues pool. This would make it extremely difficult for all but large kingdoms and empires to field more than a few retinues. It would also keep smaller realms from fielding retinues at all until much later in the timeline when holdings are more developed.
2. Vassals should not contribute the same amount to the retinue pool. Basically what you suggested.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

I spose that is also a way of doing it, but if you look at some historical armies etc. there is still too many troops in general beyond about 1250 AD.

 

[Hootieleece]

Even simpler method.......you can only recruit 1 retinue unit per castle in personal desmesne if Duke level or above.

Also raise the prices and costs of the retinues by at least 50%.

Make Miltary Organization Tech like Legalism tech. (when Legalism gives more holdings to Desmesne,Military Organization allows more retinue units)

Also cannot recruit more "Cultural Levies" than you have Cultural troop buildings in your castles.(Say you have 6 castles,You would need all 6 to have Squire Lists to recruit 6 Knights Retinues)

If your Rulers culture doesn't allow the "Cultural troops" those retinues disband.(when cultural buildings disappear)

 

[unmerged(362834)]

I also think it's unrealistic that some ruler could have 100k of retinues, like it's quite frequent in late games... I don't even have to raise my vassal levies anymore, which btw get too numerous...

I like the idea of limiting the number of retinues units one can hire, to the number of castles held...

Does anyone know if hiring retinues, decreases other levies? because being able to raise 200k of vassals' levies, while having 100k standing retinues... sounds like they're not!

 

[mr_human_555]

I agree with the retinue part. Once I got my personal doomstacks, I've almost never raised my vassal levies. I even switched the army law to minimum and replace them with larger tax law to feed my doomstacks

 

[XRW]

I also think it's unrealistic that some ruler could have 100k of retinues, like it's quite frequent in late games... I don't even have to raise my vassal levies anymore, which btw get too numerous...

I like the idea of limiting the number of retinues units one can hire, to the number of castles held...

Does anyone know if hiring retinues, decreases other levies? because being able to raise 200k of vassals' levies, while having 100k standing retinues... sounds like they're not!

It appears the levies are reduced by a percentage based on the average military organisation tech level and not the tech level in the specific province. Recruiting retinues does nothing. Whatever levies you have is after retinues were taken into account.

 

[Agrippa43]

I have a better solution. Don't Buy the DLC or If you were foolish like me and bought it, don't activate it.

We should also boycott all future DLC's until Paradox returns to their Historical Roots.

 

[Hootieleece]

@Agrippa43

I think you are right......the problem is that PDS is moving towards the mainstream......and not really the same company I bought games from starting about 10 years ago. I think that is why Ageod and PDS went their separate ways.Ageod seems to be keeping to their niche Historical Simulations and don't care if profits aren't huge.

The fact PDS has changed its name about 3 times now and Clausewitz2 Engine is prominent in load screens is all about marketing and Branding.......It means the bean counters and suits have won their power struggle for the soul of the company.

This is moving me into the Loyal Opposition even more........I will wait and see with next "Major" DLC.......and I will probably buy EUIV because I like the way that games development looks........but even that might change. I might even go back to Total WAR series........(the Horror)