A Sea-change in HBS Customer Interaction...

[mjbroekman]

@HBS_CaptKerberos thank you for giving us the view from your end. It helps us understand a little bit better even if it doesn't answer our concerns.

 

[nainredwood]

The reason he can't give you an updated timeline is because the split second a mistake is made in it, there will be those who will whine and cry and wail about it until the end of time.

So it has to be set in stone so [Mod edit: personal] can't fault it. That takes time.

[Edit: This was written as a response to deleted posts and don't make much sense out of context...]

 

[nainredwood]

I'm with you there. I'd love an update on the future of the game. In fact I want it really bad. But I also get that they have to be reasonably sure before they can talk about it. I also get why the right to post something like that is limited to very few people in order to avoid that promises are made that can't be kept.

[Edit: This was written as a response to deleted posts and don't make much sense out of context...]

 

[Marauder3D]

This is how I feel too. I'm pumped that BattleTech was successful for HBS. I'd just like a roadmap with some kind of guideline would answer 90% of my questions.

 

[HBS_CaptKerberos]

I apologize if my response to the OP about community interaction did not satisfy the topic that was drifted to regarding timelines.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to report timelines, I make the stuff, the planning and announcement is left for other more qualified folks. They may jump in here with info when they can provide it. But as they work independently of me I can't make that promise.

Also I would say generally, until something is announced, making an assumption/speculating of what is or is not being worked on may not be accurate. Simply because something has been discussed historically doesn't empower an individual such as myself to reveal the larger plans of HBS or PDX in a forum post. I err on the side of saying less of about that stuff because it can be misunderstood or inaccurate (I see one piece of the puzzle day to day).

Going back to what I said in my first post on this thread, I will try to speak accurately and give clarity. On the timeline stuff I can't give more clarity, for that you have my apologies.

 

[Spartakus]

Thank you Connor for your reply. I completely understand how exhausting a project like Battletech can be and the breaks you are taking or have been taking have very much been deserved.
I believe the main problem is not less participation on the forums - that's to be expected as the lion's share of that in the old forum were clarification on what you're trying to build and Mich's "No" that we all learned to love.
No, what's really draining my interest here is that there's nothing specific to look forward to right now. Now I know you can't share the current roadmap right now, but I really, really miss the monthly Q&As where Mitch interviewed one of you guys. Those have always been somethin to be excited about. And since they had specific dates we knew exactly when we could expect more from you guys. Even if you more then once avoided the big questions like it was OK because mitch tend's to tell us bad news right upfront and then delivers one hour of his highly contagious excitement.

 

[scJazz]

...

There it goes again... "promise". There was no "promise", there is no "promise", and despite your earlier denial that you didn't say "promise" you said it again.

Go back and read my post on page one. There is a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes.

 

[Cyttorak001]

The one thing that gives me hope is the knowledge that PDX didn't buy HBS so they could let their IP go fallow. They could've more easily just burned their money, if that's what they wanted to do. So although I can't vouch for when they'll get back to producing content, I'm pretty certain that they *will* get back to producing content.

 

[Pewpew!]

...

Have you heard of a NDA? They cant talk about what they are working on unless they get permission. Thats standard fair with these types of things. Thats alot of mental gymnastics to assume they arent working on what was promised just because they cant talk about it.

 

[scJazz]

I apologize if my response to the OP about community interaction did not satisfy the topic that was drifted to regarding timelines.

thanks for the 1st post dude...
the response to your post is exactly why Devs should never post. (much love for your post)
To everyone not employed by PDX... he just wasted an hour of his Friday! Which he could have spent making new stuff or fixing old stuff that would cause all of us to give him more $$$!

 

[Marauder3D]

Thank you for posting, Connor. We all appreciate your time and effort. Thanks for reaching out to the community.

 

[Havamal]

Greetings Mechwarriors,

Please note: We are not band wagonning concern trolling to spam demands for Dev news out of its proper time. I can think of few more disrespectful past times to engage in.

Thank you.

 

[KhazadDhum]

I will for one look at it this way....
Since Paradox bought HBS, and we all know that they BOTH want to continue the BT game (hopefully into a series of games with expansions and DLC for all of them) I highly doubt we have anything to worry about there.
Also since HBS is now under the Paradox umbrella, they'll have a LOT more flexibility to work on their future content without having to worry about things like financing/marketing.
This actually bodes well that we'll have more developer interaction in the future, at least with the character of HBS I think they certainly want to talk to and with us.
I am willing to bet we'll see some things in the future like Dev Q&A's, forum interaction, and developer diaries.
I personally like to think of all the folks at HBS as friends I just haven't met in person yet, and I know that we'll be able to keep in touch once they've managed to recharge their batteries.
As Connor just said, he hasn't been told that he can't interact with us, just that fatigue of after launch and working on the major fixes right now are taking up their time.
I don't feel like there is anything to worry about.

 

[Ganimal]

I will for one look at it this way....
Since Paradox bought HBS, and we all know that they BOTH want to continue the BT game (hopefully into a series of games with expansions and DLC for all of them) I highly doubt we have anything to worry about there.
Also since HBS is now under the Paradox umbrella, they'll have a LOT more flexibility to work on their future content without having to worry about things like financing/marketing.
This actually bodes well that we'll have more developer interaction in the future, at least with the character of HBS I think they certainly want to talk to and with us.
I am willing to bet we'll see some things in the future like Dev Q&A's, forum interaction, and developer diaries.
I personally like to think of all the folks at HBS as friends I just haven't met in person yet, and I know that we'll be able to keep in touch once they've managed to recharge their batteries.
As Connor just said, he hasn't been told that he can't interact with us, just that fatigue of after launch and working on the major fixes right now are taking up their time.
I don't feel like there is anything to worry about.

Amen

 

[Prussian Havoc]

...I am willing to bet we'll see some things in the future like Dev Q&A's, forum interaction, and developer diaries...

I share your hope. HBS Dev Q&A's and a HBS Dev Diary (something new and very welcome indeed!) could be the main tent-posts of a most excellent way forward. : )

:bow:

 

[Fletchtar]

I apologize if my response to the OP about community interaction did not satisfy the topic that was drifted to regarding timelines.

Unfortunately I am not in a position to report timelines, I make the stuff, the planning and announcement is left for other more qualified folks. They may jump in here with info when they can provide it. But as they work independently of me I can't make that promise.

Also I would say generally, until something is announced, making an assumption/speculating of what is or is not being worked on may not be accurate. Simply because something has been discussed historically doesn't empower an individual such as myself to reveal the larger plans of HBS or PDX in a forum post. I err on the side of saying less of about that stuff because it can be misunderstood or inaccurate (I see one piece of the puzzle day to day).

Going back to what I said in my first post on this thread, I will try to speak accurately and give clarity. On the timeline stuff I can't give more clarity, for that you have my apologies.

Thank you for giving us what information you can! It's heartening just to get any word from a dev at this point.

On that note, I completely understand devs not having that sort of time to devote. But do you have a community relations manager? Someone who's sole job it is to interact with the forums, organize press releases, talk to game blogs, coordinate with Paradox to see what sort of information is allowed, things like that? I get that y'all might not have been expecting quite the level of success you've enjoyed, but it seems like it might be a worthwhile hire. Helps keep the community energized and engaged, which keeps excitement for paid DLC and future expansions high. You could probably hire someone to do it part-time from within the forums for peanuts.

 

[Nichino]

Thank you for giving us what information you can! It's heartening just to get any word from a dev at this point.

On that note, I completely understand devs not having that sort of time to devote. But do you have a community relations manager? Someone who's sole job it is to interact with the forums, organize press releases, talk to game blogs, coordinate with Paradox to see what sort of information is allowed, things like that? I get that y'all might not have been expecting quite the level of success you've enjoyed, but it seems like it might be a worthwhile hire. Helps keep the community energized and engaged, which keeps excitement for paid DLC and future expansions high. You could probably hire someone to do it part-time from within the forums for peanuts.

That's a great idea! Mitch was doing the bulk of that work as one of his many hats. I'm sure it was stressful to juggle it all.

But couldn't just be someone off the forums. Has to be a real hire that shows up to work at the Seattle office to be a fly on the wall. Otherwise, whoever gives them the info may as well just give it to everyone. And being in the office, can easily get questions answered and be given direction.

 

[Hawk.eye]

At the risk of repeating myself...

Kickstarter Goals are not Promises. They are not even "sweet whispers in the night".

They are Goals and the Goal Posts will move.

Any whining or gripes or demands should refer to the above.

Off-topic to the original post/thread but I can't let this stand without a comment because I disagree with this statment on so many levels.

I'm not sure where this set of mind is coming from

Kickstarter goals, IMO, are 100% promises.
"If you give us this much money, we will create that thingy you want"
How is this not a promise?

"if we reach 100,000$, the game will have not 4, but 6 classes you can choose from for your character"
If those 100,000$ are reached and the game shipped with only the originally "promised" 4 classes, how can anyone see this as anything _but_ a broken promise?

From the Battletech Kickstarter:
$250,000 - Combined Arms: We'll add a healthy roster of non-'Mech AI opponents to the Base Skirmish Game including tanks, hovercraft, support vehicles and more.
$400,000 - Expanded Mission Objectives: We'll add a variety of mission types to the Base Skirmish Game including Escort, Capture, Defend, and more.
$500,000 - Expanded Environments: We'll add a wider variety of battlefield environments to the game, including time-of-day and atmospheric conditions that affect both movement and combat.

"If we rach ABC $, we will add XYZ"
Sorry, but if those aren't promises, the word promise needs to be re-defined in the dictionary.

Yes, Kickstarter founders will sometimes overestimate their ability to deliver and in legal terms, there isn't a whole lot people can do about it.
That doesn't mean they didn't break a promise.

Are stretch-goals legally binding?
No
Does this mean stretch-goals aren't promises?
ABSOLUTELY NOT

I don't know, but IMO, this "goals are no promises" mindset is one of the things, that allow Kickstarter founders (creators?) to overpromise and underdeliver.
If you're going to put stretch-goals into your Kickstarter, you better be damn sure you can deliver on them!

 

[mjbroekman]

The only reason I am disagreeing is that you have left out an important distinction.

Goals are promises. Timetables are not.

If it takes longer to deliver a goal then expected it doesn't matter. The goal was delivered. The promise to deliver was kept.

If it takes longer to deliver because of unexpected things (graphics engine changes, personnel changes, lawsuits, whatever), timetables will slip. That doesn't necessarily mean the goal has been dropped. The problem when dates slip is that you still have to pay your team. And that means that dates can slip more while you do tangential things to ensure you have funding for the extended timelines.

From HBS_CaptKerberos' post, it sounds like part of his job is delivering on that Expanded Environments stretch goal. I'm sure the other (currently unfulfilled) stretch goals are in similar situations... small numbers of devs (if not solo devs) working on a particular aspect. And it's not unreasonable for us to assume they are all as emotionally worn out as Connor given that the original release date slipped (which adds a ton of stress) and then the push to get something out so the release date doesn't slip again (which adds even more stress).

From Kickstarter FAQ:

When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised.

BUT also from the Kickstarter FAQ:

At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers.

So, right now, we are in a situation where HBS is attempting to fulfill their promises and complete their project.

 

[Leon12]

Ah, there we go. I think PDX, unlike HBS, encourages devs to take a lot of time aside to post stuff to the community. Dev Diaries for example are a regular feature and I always got the impression that drafting and posting them is part of the respective designers' actual jobs. If HBS don't demand that of devs and instead devs posting here is just "I'm on my lunchbreak"-type chat then I can see why release burnout and the fact they're mostly doing fixes now would kind of cut down on communication.

Anyway, thanks for sharing, HBS_CaptKerberos. Excited for whatever you guys have planned