ah thats where you are wrong , if somebody makes 10ai in a area he only discovert (lets asume asia 
only those wo know them would loose the isolation)
only those wo know them would loose the isolation)-
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I'm on ICQ now, I am going to attempt to beta these BadBoy Questions and then after I'm done seek counsel with the rest of you when everyone 'shows up'
Something Middle Ground is going to have to be done. The Edits in Question are Extreme.. Only in truly Extreme circumstances should edits be allowed...
and HG you're wrong about the BB Cost unless your save is different than mine. I am using your last save you sent to me.
Something Middle Ground is going to have to be done. The Edits in Question are Extreme.. Only in truly Extreme circumstances should edits be allowed...
and HG you're wrong about the BB Cost unless your save is different than mine. I am using your last save you sent to me.
Nice and very peaceful session for Leon. Income from 115 to 160 ducats. Techs up (we are not CRT behind anymore) and inflation down: we finally got infra 5). A couple of refineries built, all provinces converted. BTW, I will again thank Hyzenhook for his work last week, how he put 5 leon traders in almost every european COT was amazing (with only 1 COT and all). It made defending trade positions a lot more easier today.
Actually, I think the session for Leon can be perfectly summarized in the following image:
Actually, I think the session for Leon can be perfectly summarized in the following image:
Byzantium:
not much to report, some explorations and colonies after nearly 4 sessions of nothing. Trying to catch up with Western Tech and maybe in another 100 years we'll be around 150 Income ourselves, but most certianly will have ManPower if nothing else, I'll need to learn to do some creative Colonialism<a first>. Income is Wild: Right now HRE income is up around 500, closest Match is the USA with an income of around 300. Hopefully with some Teching, others will level the playing field and cut back on the gross abuse of Trading by the Major Powers. That and some newer CoTs opening up in the next 100-150 Years...
Some are uncertian as to the Invincibility of the HRE, it's yet to be tested. Perhaps in the next few centuries it will be. If that income doesn't level off I will be one to admit that the game may be locked in to either a USA or HRE Victory. The USA lacks a Army is the thing holding them back and heavily reliant on their colonies... Doubtful they can hold a flame to the HRE, and the Germans are the only other Major Land Power and they seem content to be at peace, that will not balance the game out short term or longterm IMO but lets see anyways<HRE is above a CRT advantage on the rest of the World>... We'll see how things unfold.
This evening one of my Capts. took upon himself to edit without my Final Word. Always a bit stubborn... Heh, HG! As Usual I let him get away with it,<please from now on wait till you throw forth an edit!!!> I should've brought in a modified Save myself Early but that's alright. We made good time on TAF's Bandwidth...altogether not a bad session. Hopefully Bocaj will be back next week, Pibe was rather less than diplomatic<merely a warm body>
NOTICE:
Edits that must be done:
Now for what neccessary edits must be done next session. Byzantium, Hanseat, Sicily will have an option to move their Capitols. That is only fair seeing that everyone else has already done this and right now all their Capitols are misplaced due to the Events. I'm thinking of a location for mine, but I will have to ponder it awhile... I also leave it to Iraq if they might want their Capitol elsewhere but I doubt this...
not much to report, some explorations and colonies after nearly 4 sessions of nothing. Trying to catch up with Western Tech and maybe in another 100 years we'll be around 150 Income ourselves, but most certianly will have ManPower if nothing else, I'll need to learn to do some creative Colonialism<a first>. Income is Wild: Right now HRE income is up around 500, closest Match is the USA with an income of around 300. Hopefully with some Teching, others will level the playing field and cut back on the gross abuse of Trading by the Major Powers. That and some newer CoTs opening up in the next 100-150 Years...
Some are uncertian as to the Invincibility of the HRE, it's yet to be tested. Perhaps in the next few centuries it will be. If that income doesn't level off I will be one to admit that the game may be locked in to either a USA or HRE Victory. The USA lacks a Army is the thing holding them back and heavily reliant on their colonies... Doubtful they can hold a flame to the HRE, and the Germans are the only other Major Land Power and they seem content to be at peace, that will not balance the game out short term or longterm IMO but lets see anyways<HRE is above a CRT advantage on the rest of the World>... We'll see how things unfold.
This evening one of my Capts. took upon himself to edit without my Final Word. Always a bit stubborn... Heh, HG! As Usual I let him get away with it,<please from now on wait till you throw forth an edit!!!> I should've brought in a modified Save myself Early but that's alright. We made good time on TAF's Bandwidth...altogether not a bad session. Hopefully Bocaj will be back next week, Pibe was rather less than diplomatic<merely a warm body>
NOTICE:
Edits that must be done:
Now for what neccessary edits must be done next session. Byzantium, Hanseat, Sicily will have an option to move their Capitols. That is only fair seeing that everyone else has already done this and right now all their Capitols are misplaced due to the Events. I'm thinking of a location for mine, but I will have to ponder it awhile... I also leave it to Iraq if they might want their Capitol elsewhere but I doubt this...
Well well well, if it isn't the not holy, not roman, not empire super doper powertecher that comes from too much peace....
Yeah Boc,
If people would've had a bit more foresight they may have gotten on a World Wide Coalition a 'long time ago' <Coughs: About my War in Venice vs Flandern>... Now as was discussed early in the evening, HRE could bit by bit force vassalize every nation on the Board. I may say we call this game, and start anew if HG wishes to stop toying around and flex his muscles. Heh.
If people would've had a bit more foresight they may have gotten on a World Wide Coalition a 'long time ago' <Coughs: About my War in Venice vs Flandern>... Now as was discussed early in the evening, HRE could bit by bit force vassalize every nation on the Board. I may say we call this game, and start anew if HG wishes to stop toying around and flex his muscles. Heh.
Bocaj said:
I've taken a good look at the save and I noticed that once again the rest of Europe doesn't have much of a chance unless someone does something graceful for this game. I think that I am going to request an "Edit" For myself here...and bow out... Since everyone takes liberties without my permission.... this is what I purpose for the greater good of the game:
That Georgia be divided by Iraq and Russia evenly... That way there is a chance for someone to put on a good show All my Turks goto Meso. All my Mongols and Greeks goto Russia<including my colonies> cause they "BADLY" need a headstart in that arena...Plus all my discoveries to Russia. Russia is very very weak and will likely finish behind Georgia if not...
This will give both Russia and Meso a fair shake and their the natural inheriters<they would've conquored Asia Minor and I would've worked with them anyways> and possibly a real Eastern sized Coalition one Day to Face the HRE or whatever Western Coalition Threat that may rise down the road if there ever is one.
I suggest this cause well, there really is no point to stuffing up the Map with an Extra Nation that's income/Tech/etc... aren't going to make a difference in a real pinch and when their are 2-3 UberPowers due to various reasons it would leave some room for others to grow. Also you guys have TAF to Host and HG to GM so you don't need me aside
Good luck folks
That Georgia be divided by Iraq and Russia evenly... That way there is a chance for someone to put on a good show
All my Turks goto Meso. All my Mongols and Greeks goto Russia<including my colonies> cause they "BADLY" need a headstart in that arena...Plus all my discoveries to Russia. Russia is very very weak and will likely finish behind Georgia if not... This will give both Russia and Meso a fair shake and their the natural inheriters<they would've conquored Asia Minor and I would've worked with them anyways> and possibly a real Eastern sized Coalition one Day to Face the HRE or whatever Western Coalition Threat that may rise down the road if there ever is one.
I suggest this cause well, there really is no point to stuffing up the Map with an Extra Nation that's income/Tech/etc... aren't going to make a difference in a real pinch and when their are 2-3 UberPowers due to various reasons it would leave some room for others to grow. Also you guys have TAF to Host and HG to GM so you don't need me aside
Good luck folks
Count Drew said:
That time Venice was helped by Brittany and Hungary, against a Fladers that was quite smaller than HRE is now. 3 vs 1 do not looked as bad odds (that the DOWs were uncoordinated and all it is a different manner).
Anyway, although the game is unbalanced (3 majors and a lot of middle and lesser powers), I dont't think it is not fun. Under new rules, even trade is more lively than usual.
The only complaint I got is few diplomacy (I am to blame in this too, I had not started a lot of diplomatic communications), and that a NAP between HRE and Germany is like a NAP between France and Austria, a thing that usually is not done.
The game is fine as long as neither the HRE nor Germany actually war anyone but each other....
Europe, January 1577
North America, January 1577
South America, January 1577
Africa, January 1577
Asia, January 1577
North America, January 1577
South America, January 1577
Africa, January 1577
Asia, January 1577
The game is not that bad. There are 3 powerfull nations (HRE, Germany and USB), some sattelite nations and minor ones.
The bad thing is that there are nations with such better tech than others. And I dont like so much that there are no rotw nations, but still, its interesting being a satellite of the powerfull empire.
As long as the Empire and Germany make some wars between them, instead of continiuing to powertech, it will be fine. I think a war between those two big nations would be great to see.
The bad thing is that there are nations with such better tech than others. And I dont like so much that there are no rotw nations, but still, its interesting being a satellite of the powerfull empire.
As long as the Empire and Germany make some wars between them, instead of continiuing to powertech, it will be fine. I think a war between those two big nations would be great to see.
Count Drew said:I've taken a good look at the save and I noticed that once again the rest of Europe doesn't have much of a chance unless someone does something graceful for this game. I think that I am going to request an "Edit" For myself here...and bow out... Since everyone takes liberties without my permission.... this is what I purpose for the greater good of the game:
That Georgia be divided by Iraq and Russia evenly... That way there is a chance for someone to put on a good show
This will give both Russia and Meso a fair shake and their the natural inheriters<they would've conquored Asia Minor and I would've worked with them anyways> and possibly a real Eastern sized Coalition one Day to Face the HRE or whatever Western Coalition Threat that may rise down the road if there ever is one.
I suggest this cause well, there really is no point to stuffing up the Map with an Extra Nation that's income/Tech/etc... aren't going to make a difference in a real pinch and when their are 2-3 UberPowers due to various reasons it would leave some room for others to grow. Also you guys have TAF to Host and HG to GM so you don't need me aside
Good luck folks
Drew, please don't quit. If you do, I'll have to oppose this edit of obvious reasons, but seriously I don't think its necessary that you leave. Why would you anyway?
admiral drake said:
Yeah, Drew, stay with us.
It cannot be worse than your Austria with that big inflation
And I think it will still be wars betweens Germany and HRE that will make the game smoother.
All,
I think there are some mixed understandings here.
The reason you haven't seen war in the west since my invasion of the Hanseatic League is that I'm giving the rest of the world a chance to catch up. There's no question that the HRE took a strong early lead when it defeated Drew's coalition (and not before-I wouldn't have more than half of France, and I never would've taken the Brandenburger regions of Germany), and that my factory building/powerteching have only increased it. If I launched a war now, against Germany, I would win overwhelmingly (I can get LT 18) and strip her of her German posessions. And then where would the game be?
The difference between this and Into the Breach is that there are so many potentially strong powers. Leon, Sicily and the League have all nearly caught up with the HRE in the colonial race (I need a shipyard, desperately-2.8 per year isn't cutting it), Meso is already across the Indian coast, Morocco already has West Africa, the USB needs no introduction, Kiev will be a manpower monster with a much better chance (because of leaders and tech group) of effecting change in Europe than Russia and Germany is certainly Austria to my France. Eventually, we'll see around five major powers of different types and a host of countries never made irrelevant because they'll always have leaders.
I'll agree that, right now, Georgia isn't doing much of anything. But that doesn't mean she's useless, or that there aren't good things in store for her... This hyperbole about the HRE appears to be, indeed, the only real roadblock to enjoying her.
I think there are some mixed understandings here.
The reason you haven't seen war in the west since my invasion of the Hanseatic League is that I'm giving the rest of the world a chance to catch up. There's no question that the HRE took a strong early lead when it defeated Drew's coalition (and not before-I wouldn't have more than half of France, and I never would've taken the Brandenburger regions of Germany), and that my factory building/powerteching have only increased it. If I launched a war now, against Germany, I would win overwhelmingly (I can get LT 18) and strip her of her German posessions. And then where would the game be?
The difference between this and Into the Breach is that there are so many potentially strong powers. Leon, Sicily and the League have all nearly caught up with the HRE in the colonial race (I need a shipyard, desperately-2.8 per year isn't cutting it), Meso is already across the Indian coast, Morocco already has West Africa, the USB needs no introduction, Kiev will be a manpower monster with a much better chance (because of leaders and tech group) of effecting change in Europe than Russia and Germany is certainly Austria to my France. Eventually, we'll see around five major powers of different types and a host of countries never made irrelevant because they'll always have leaders.
I'll agree that, right now, Georgia isn't doing much of anything. But that doesn't mean she's useless, or that there aren't good things in store for her... This hyperbole about the HRE appears to be, indeed, the only real roadblock to enjoying her.
All,
I do agree that we need more warfare. What you all have to understand is:
1. Shig and I, the two powers that can most afford it, are having a lot of fun just fighting what is, I believe, the first genuine trade war in EU history. Between our mutual pig-headedness and the new rules, it's vicious and vastly entertaining.
2. Shig and I, in keeping with the trade wars, have started talking about colonial wars down the road. I think, given the number of major colonizers, this is a real possibility. At least between the HRE and USB, and it'd keep us honest.
3. My goals for this game were as follows: A. Create a strong central power, on par with Austria, but give it Spain's colonies and trade; B. When it became grossly apparent that I'd have to for my own survival, unite Northern, Western, Eastern and Central France, and expand my fortunes in Germany; C. Unite the French and D. Create and maintain the Pax Romana through allies, in preperation for the way I thought (and still think) this game will go. In keeping with this, I've spent more time on the economy than I think I ever have, I've worked things out diplomatically and I've struggled to maintain a Europe in which prosperity and friendship reign. It's up to other countries to disrupt this, if they choose-I realize it's a safe bet to assume I'll be the malevolent beast starting war after war, but I'm just about where I want to be at this stage in the game. There's no profit in it, and the trade wars are keeping me amused.
4. I'm the only human country which has engaged seriously in human-human conflict. I fought off a coalition. I gave Mecklemburg and Brittany a series of sword-backed ultimatums. I beat them both. I beat Hungary, Venice, Morocco and Brittany. I've done the whole bit-no one who hasn't should be complaining.
5. What happens if Germany invades now and loses? Drew and others will be calling for a reset. What happens if Germany invades when the USB's income is equal to mine, Sicily is a major economic power and the Easterners are all reaping the benefits of Asia and Africa, and loses? Game continues, coalitions form.
I do agree that we need more warfare. What you all have to understand is:
1. Shig and I, the two powers that can most afford it, are having a lot of fun just fighting what is, I believe, the first genuine trade war in EU history. Between our mutual pig-headedness and the new rules, it's vicious and vastly entertaining.
2. Shig and I, in keeping with the trade wars, have started talking about colonial wars down the road. I think, given the number of major colonizers, this is a real possibility. At least between the HRE and USB, and it'd keep us honest.
3. My goals for this game were as follows: A. Create a strong central power, on par with Austria, but give it Spain's colonies and trade; B. When it became grossly apparent that I'd have to for my own survival, unite Northern, Western, Eastern and Central France, and expand my fortunes in Germany; C. Unite the French and D. Create and maintain the Pax Romana through allies, in preperation for the way I thought (and still think) this game will go. In keeping with this, I've spent more time on the economy than I think I ever have, I've worked things out diplomatically and I've struggled to maintain a Europe in which prosperity and friendship reign. It's up to other countries to disrupt this, if they choose-I realize it's a safe bet to assume I'll be the malevolent beast starting war after war, but I'm just about where I want to be at this stage in the game. There's no profit in it, and the trade wars are keeping me amused.
4. I'm the only human country which has engaged seriously in human-human conflict. I fought off a coalition. I gave Mecklemburg and Brittany a series of sword-backed ultimatums. I beat them both. I beat Hungary, Venice, Morocco and Brittany. I've done the whole bit-no one who hasn't should be complaining.
5. What happens if Germany invades now and loses? Drew and others will be calling for a reset. What happens if Germany invades when the USB's income is equal to mine, Sicily is a major economic power and the Easterners are all reaping the benefits of Asia and Africa, and loses? Game continues, coalitions form.
All,
Also, Byzantium is no worse off than a typical Prussia, and it'll get much better as it colonizes.
I think the big problem here is expecting every country to be a major... That's not how it is in a regular historical campaign. Why should it be here? Everyone got roughly equal starting positions, but that doesn't mean they all had to end up in the front-rank. We have our Venices, Brandenburgs and Polands here, too.
Also, Byzantium is no worse off than a typical Prussia, and it'll get much better as it colonizes.
I think the big problem here is expecting every country to be a major... That's not how it is in a regular historical campaign. Why should it be here? Everyone got roughly equal starting positions, but that doesn't mean they all had to end up in the front-rank. We have our Venices, Brandenburgs and Polands here, too.