A Revolution: GC Multiplayer Randomized

[HolisticGod]

Boc,

My tech costs are now very large. It's not my fault I kept the balance and worked up the income to climb over some hills.

As for BB... You seem to be missing the point entirely. Making this punitive is ridiculous-the patch has created the problem. I'm running the math on the basis of what would've happened in place of a rash of forced-annexations under the old rules. You just want to make it costly-which isn't the point.

The patch made a significant change. Either we drop it or we fix it.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

Oh I see... it's ok to lose your bb, but it's not ok to increase our tech, I see....

 

[HolisticGod]

Boc,

The comparison being?

Our BB wasn't a problem before this patch. Slight stab increase. Now it's a huge deal-because of the patch.

We would've played differently had we known.

Your tech is partly joining late, partly failing to show (not you, specifically) and partly lagging behind the big three. The fact that Sicily is also at 2-3 and you're at or above other countries in various techs doesn't exactly support your case.

I think tech is fine. And artificially boosting it is unfair to the rest of us.

Now, I'd support giving you all 3 DP clicks... But none of this jumping to infra four nonsense.

 

[HolisticGod]

Boc,

And one last time, for all those who weren't paying attention, the tech has nothing to do with the patch.

The culture has nothing to do with the patch.

The one I'm opposed to, the latter I support. But they're game issues that've arisen seperately, and using this to force a bonus that wasn't on the table before is underhanded.

We can just avoid using the patch. Problem solved. Or, to make things is easier and keep the other new inventions, we can tone down the BB. Doesn't matter to me. But don't confuse the issue with a lot of other stuff.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

On a related note, can anyone explain to me why my infra tech cost doubled during last session? My sliders were only getting better and this was before vassals gave bonuses, and I didn't really grow because my my deal with Drew.

I've never seen it before, it and it was annoying, because at the start I was going to get infra 4 in 1533, which was a while back. Isn't it supposed to get cheaper not more expensive? It was so bad I was getting paranoid and checking tech groups.

 

[Count Drew]

Well, In the past it's a tradition not to edit our games due to Johann's patches HG, and I don't see any reason to change this. You're very powerful and very rich and I'm certian you'll adapt to the alterations. Who knows, next week there will be a new patch and a whole 360...

Georgia protested editing by not accepting any the night I was subbed and I stand by my Guns there... I just was wishful thinking in what I said, but as GM and HOST I must say I've the final say so...We all have had pitfalls in this game, due to one reason or another and endured and kept going... Tough team <I've been Venice, moved due to the greater good of Game Harmony. Taken over Georgia that's not flowered due to absence...and why someone can find Leon a sub and not a budding flower I'm baffled, noone would leave HRE unattended>

All,

Some numbers on the tech isssue:

1. While it's true that the late comers Muscowy, Georgia and Meso are behind the curve at 2-3, 2-3 and 3-3, Muscowy and Georgia pumped land tech ahead of Germany and the HRE, therefore easing our LT burden considerably and wasting valuable time that could've been spent powerteching.

2. Other countries that have not been AI'd and were in from the beginning are also behind the curve. Sicily on the same scale, 2-3, while Byzantium is on the cusp of infra 4. Similiarly, Morocco is only 2-4, while Meso is 3-3. Mecklemburg is at 2-5, about to hit 3-5, but Leon is at 3-4 and will likely remain so for some time. Meanwhile, Germany, at 4-4, is running only one point in each category ahead of Meso.

It's pretty clear that join dates have not made much of an impact, given the necessity of minting early on. Similiarly, AI status has not been debilitating and is, ultimately, the player's own responsibility.

 

[HolisticGod]

Drew,

This isn't a minor change.

Nor is it a correctable one.

Half the countries won't be able to function much at all for centuries-the Hanseatic League, depending on how high the civil war variable is, may be unplayable. And there's not one damn thing we, as players, can do about it.

Frankly, I want a vote.

 

[Mem de Sá]

Well, I can not even test the thing, as Iam imediatally dowed by the rest of the word if I go SinglePlayer

The League got a big badboy after being atacked by Finland, Prussia and Sweden and resolving to annex all those countries (I obvious miscalculated the BB for taking provs in a defensive war...)

The prospect wanst that bad - the worse would be little trade cause of high BB, but as I had persued infra 5, my trade is still at 2, and I hardly trade at all, so I thought that would be a good oportunity to unify the baltic.

The MUCH (as in the beta thread) increase of chance for civil war and much higher BB was a not very agradable surprise when reading the last beta thread...

I, course, would like an edit to lower that - with compensations being taked - but will respect the GM decision on that.

 

[HolisticGod]

Camisa,

Hit F12 and type in Alba and Tilly. No revolts, no DOWs.

Then see how long it takes to get a civil war at the various stab levels, and how often they show up.

I'm telling you folks, I think the League may be unplayable without an edit.

 

[Mem de Sá]

BTW, another thing - If a good part of my provs go reformed, I will change religion - except that the League can only choose between protestant and catholic. There is no reformed option.

 

[Mem de Sá]

I will test that. My first test caused a ctd of EU2.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

You must go Protestant before you can go Reformed...

 

[Mem de Sá]

Well, tested it.
My stab was at 0, then I changed sliders and got at -1 so it goes:

In April, 1546 I got to -1 stab
In April, 1546 (some month) - Civil War and 20 provs rebelled.
In september 1546 (two months later) - another civil war, more provincies rebeled, governement fall, Norway, Sweden, Prussia, Pommeran and Bremen declared independence (12 provs total).

 

[HolisticGod]

Camisa,

Holy hell.

Well, that settles it, I think.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

But that lowers your bb right?

I'm joking of course, and being 20 bb over the limit seems like it will need to be remedied somehow, however I would like to use this patch for simplisities sake.

 

[HolisticGod]

Boc,

As would I.

I suggest those countries with high BB take a 15 point drop, Camisa takes a 35 point drop.

 

[Count Drew]

I've not had a chance to Beta that amount BadBoy. So I don't know, lately, I've made a habit of keeping it under a certian level.

If it is unplayable we'll edit to a level that to playable and continue from there. However if not, we need a Vote. I'll beta the game tomorrow pre-game to see for myself. I guess players are going to have a hard time waging massive Wars form now on, not all a bad move, BB really never mattered to me nor did Stab?

 

[HolisticGod]

Drew,

Nah.

AI gobbling will continue apace. This will simply make human-human wars, in all games, less desirable.

Which is dead opposite what so many people claim to want.

 

[unmerged(10894)]

HG, you can get the bb reduction, but we get the tech increase. It's not about being related, it's about being fair and consistent. The tech increase is the bonus for having low bb.

 

[admiral drake]

the tech increase hurts the non traders more while the bb hurts the bb players, so i agree with bocaj like i sayd before