A query about titular titles and De jure drift

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

Playing Title Manager enabling the creation of Venaissin to become a duchy (comprises Vivries & Venaissin) and am a vassal of the Pope.

As I was playing the dejure drift mechanic did not seem to be working. The respective counties belong to Provence and Dauphine respectively, but wondered if my titular duchy will ever become a dejure duchy with the counties as nominal vassals.

Do I need to destroy Dauphines and Provence so my titular title is the only duchy they can drift to?

Thanks for the comments previously, am excited to finally play as the Comtat Venassin - may be asking how to transform Avignon into a Castle holding, but that is a different matter and may not seem possible even with this mod.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Playing Title Manager enabling the creation of Venaissin to become a duchy (comprises Vivries & Venaissin) a

What is Title Manager ?

 

[jonjowett]

Unfortunately, de jure drift only affects duchies (which can drift from one kingdom to another) and kingdoms (which can drift from one empire to another). The de jure relationship between counties and duchies is fixed (apart from a VERY limited number of exceptions - eg. differences between historical bookmarks, certain decisions). Your titular duchy will remain titular forever (unless there's some kind of special code added by the mod).

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

As I was playing the dejure drift mechanic did not seem to be working. The respective counties belong to Provence and Dauphine respectively,

Counties don't drift individually.

*ninja'ed by jonjowett.

 

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

What is Title Manager ?

My apologies, it was a mod which magnvs1101 made in 2016 and deserves credit for - tried to link it in thread but was prevented from doing so. I've wanted to play about with recreating Avignon Papacy for some time now (gutted the fancy CoA doesn't appear in CK3, but adorns the bishopric instead - admittedly more historically accurate) but relented to modding to bequeath the Orsinis with Vivrais and Venaissin counties and hoped my titular duchy would drift to dejure Papacy.

Edit: as I've noticed this hasn't happened, I've made my titular duchy a kingdom (from Auvergne and Dauphine, this I've discovered isn't titular) using the console but it's been a little lacklustre as I feel I've cheesed far too hard. magnvs1101 mod was the one which worked, there were several others I located but for whatever reason many failed to work.

Yikes, well thanks jonjowett for saying so. The key design is nice enough, but was hoping to find a way whereby the custom duchy can be absorbed into a kingdom (be it Papacy, HRE or heck - Venaissin/Avignon itself)

Anyway, thanks for the responses people!

 

[jonjowett]

Yikes, well thanks jonjowett for saying so. The key design is nice enough, but was hoping to find a way whereby the custom duchy can be absorbed into a kingdom (be it Papacy, HRE or heck - Venaissin/Avignon itself)

Since you're modding anyway (and therefore don't care about achievements etc), there's probably a way to do this with a custom event/decision. If you need help, you could try asking for guidance on the modding subforum.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

My apologies, it was a mod which magnvs1101 made in 2016 and deserves credit for - tried to link it in thread but was prevented from doing so.

I found it on the Steam Workshop. I suppose you don't have enough posts for links and the account isn't old enough either.

Regarding the titular duchy, you could create a mod and hence change the dejure borders to turn it into a de jure title from the start
or edit the save file, but i'm relatively sure you can't create new duchies out of different de jure counties by decision.
Anyway, adding to what Jonjowett suggested, there is a Quick Questions thread you could use.
New threads there are often also still noticed and responded on. Completely your choice.

 

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

Since you're modding anyway (and therefore don't care about achievements etc), there's probably a way to do this with a custom event/decision. If you need help, you could try asking for guidance on the modding subforum.

Much appreciated jonjowett, recognise you assisted me before in relation to Orsini Venaissin so thanks a bunch.

I shall post a quick question and say I'll likely need a step-by-step guide in order to not alter checksum seeing as creation by event appeals the most to me.

 

[jonjowett]

Much appreciated jonjowett, recognise you assisted me before in relation to Orsini Venaissin so thanks a bunch.

I shall post a quick question and say I'll likely need a step-by-step guide in order to not alter checksum seeing as creation by event appeals the most to me.

FYI, any mod that alters titles in this way will alter the checksum, so I expect it's impossible to mod in this change if you also require no change in checksum. (The only mods that don't alter the checksum are ones that are purely cosmetic/graphical. For example, I expect your "title manager" mod has already altered the checksum from the default.)

 

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

I found it on the Steam Workshop. I suppose you don't have enough posts for links and the account isn't old enough either.

Regarding the titular duchy, you could create a mod and hence change the dejure borders to turn it into a de jure title from the start
or edit the save file, but i'm relatively sure you can't create new duchies out of different de jure counties by decision.
Anyway, adding to what Jonjowett suggested, there is a Quick Questions thread you could use.
New threads there are often also still noticed and responded on. Completely your choice.

Changing the borders to turn Venaissin and Vivarais into a dejure Duchy Comtat-Venaissin does appeal the most to me out of the above list (perhaps making Avignon a castle holding rather than a bishopric for instance - enabling the d'Orange family to retain the barony)

I do appreciate you guys having taken the time to address my query. Maybe my queries themselves highlight how certain features of the game mechanics don't fully support it, but I did wonder why the Avignon Papacy wasn't more fully explored within CK2 or CK3 - seeing as it took place between 1309-1436 both before the official end date of 1453.

Thanks again, would definitely want a new and improved CoA rather than the vanilla Venaissin for county, duchy and possibly kingdom fluff! The appeal of an Orsini playthrough is distinct due to being the Pope's only vassal and just hope I'm able to find someone who shares my interest in this weird era of medieval history to flesh out some new mechanics enabling play.

 

[jonjowett]

Maybe my queries themselves highlight how certain features of the game mechanics don't fully support it, but I did wonder why the Avignon Papacy wasn't more fully explored within CK2 or CK3 - seeing as it took place between 1309-1436 both before the official end date of 1453.

It's true that the Pope won't willingly move from Rome. However, I believe that the later stages of the Avignon Papacy are fairly well modelled by CK2's Antipope mechanics. (I can't speak about CK3, since I don't have it.)

 

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

FYI, any mod that alters titles in this way will alter the checksum, so I expect it's impossible to mod in this change if you also require no change in checksum. (The only mods that don't alter the checksum are ones that are purely cosmetic/graphical. For example, I expect your "title manager" mod has already altered the checksum from the default.)

Thanks for the heads-up jonjowett, is it true that this can be minimised by simply unclicking the mod so the game loads without it? I'll be honest and admit that I don't know what "checksum" amounts to, but in the past feared having to uninstall/install if excessive modding interfered with the game and rendered it unplayable.

 

[jonjowett]

Thanks for the heads-up jonjowett, is it true that this can be minimised by simply unclicking the mod so the game loads without it? I'll be honest and admit that I don't know what "checksum" amounts to, but in the past feared having to uninstall/install if excessive modding interfered with the game and rendered it unplayable.

You can indeed deselect mods from the launcher and they won't affect the game. However, it's generally considered quite risky to remove mods from an ongoing game.

The only purpose of the checksum is to ensure that the game logic is unchanged compared to the version the devs released - ie. for achievements and bug reports. (And, for multiplayer, I think all players have to have the same exact checksum.) If you're not doing any of those then a nonstandard checksum is not a problem - in fact, lots of people run CK2 with mods.

You are probably right to be cautious about having too many mods activated; however, I think that having 10-20 active mods is very normal, especially if they are small in scope. What you really need to worry about IMO are mod conflicts and mods that substantially affect performance because they are poorly coded - and this is something you will need to investigate for each mod individually. (Which is another reason why it's helpful to have a short modlist!)

 

[0rth0d0xypr0xy]

You can indeed deselect mods from the launcher and they won't affect the game. However, it's generally considered quite risky to remove mods from an ongoing game.

The only purpose of the checksum is to ensure that the game logic is unchanged compared to the version the devs released - ie. for achievements and bug reports. (And, for multiplayer, I think all players have to have the same exact checksum.) If you're not doing any of those then a nonstandard checksum is not a problem - in fact, lots of people run CK2 with mods.

You are probably right to be cautious about having too many mods activated; however, I think that having 10-20 active mods is very normal, especially if they are small in scope. What you really need to worry about IMO are mod conflicts and mods that substantially affect performance because they are poorly coded - and this is something you will need to investigate for each mod individually. (Which is another reason why it's helpful to have a short modlist!)

Wow, 10-20 mods running at once. I've only got about 7 so far and haven't combined them in a single playthrough.

As for a dejure Duchy of Venaissin, it appears this thread has sadly gathered little interest but I still hope to stumble across a mod(s) where what I'm looking for is made accessible. I've realised that console will need to be used in order to obtain Venaissin & Vivarais from the 1066 start, and am now less apprehensive towards modding than before. Thanks for being so responsive and helpful jonjowett!

I still am hoping some modders shall eventually get together and tweak the 1337 start enabling a more interactive play with the Avignon Papacy - perhaps with expanded mechanics too. However for now, my only remaining query (which I raised elsewhere) is whether it is possible (presumably through a mod, if at all) to "convert" a holding (in my case the bishopric/temple of Avignon) to a castle?

Thanks, and if you're new and can recommend any mods which features Venaissin as it's own dejure duchy, please do drop the link as a message!

 

[jonjowett]

However for now, my only remaining query (which I raised elsewhere) is whether it is possible (presumably through a mod, if at all) to "convert" a holding (in my case the bishopric/temple of Avignon) to a castle?

It probably is possible, but I have no idea how. The only place I could think to look was in landed_titles.txt, and there's nothing obvious in there. Try asking on the modding forum.

 

[Whizzer]

convert_to = castle should work.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

...is possible (presumably through a mod, if at all) to "convert" a holding (in my case the bishopric/temple of Avignon) to a castle?

(wasn't clear to me if you are asking for modding option or a mod, so...)

With a cheat mod.
Right click on the holding once you activated one of the mods.
There are two i'd recommend :

Slvrbuu's Cheat Menu
Best download option currently here (has to be activated via decision :

Slvrbuu's CKII Cheat Menu

From the makers of the Europa Universalis Chaotic Compressing Container, we bring you: The Crusader Kings II Enlightenment Package. Some people say cheating ruins the game, but I don’t care what they say, as long as I get my rent payed on...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

and
Sketchy Cheat Menu (activated via charater diplo option):

Steam Workshop::Sketchy Cheat Menu

steamcommunity.com

The download link in the forum for this is outdated, as it appears.