A poll for what the community thinks about France.

[DukeWilleo1630]

France is OP. How would I try to fix it? Well I wouldn't want to change any game mechanics per say. Either decrease their starting base tax(don't really think this is necessary), or give them diplomatic negatives. What are these diplomatic negatives? Austria should have a historical friend modifier with Spain while France should have a historical enemy modifier with Spain. As long as France doesn't ally or inheret the iberian peninsula, things shouldn't get out of hand.

Historically it was the Habsburg Empire, which was by far the top european power until the late 1600s, that hampered France's growth. So, I don't see whats wrong simulating this in a historical simulator like EU.

 

[Elin]

I think that in 1.7 France was not op just a very strong country.
In 1.8, France got nerfed because the alliance possibilities at the beginning of the game are different. You may be able to get Castille as an ally but never Austria which was really op. Attaking the HRE is now really a mess and even more when Austria get this much allies and ally Castille.

In my point of view it's normal tu see France really that strong because it was in history the major continental power in Europe.
For me the most op country right now is Austria, when does in history Austria has been this strong in central europe? I have never seen Austria being crushed, each time the king of Burgundy dies he blobs as hell so i don't understand this "France op" and nothing about Austria.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

I think that in 1.7 France was not op just a very strong country.
In 1.8, France got nerfed because the alliance possibilities at the beginning of the game are different. You may be able to get Castille as an ally but never Austria which was really op. Attaking the HRE is now really a mess and even more when Austria get this much allies and ally Castille.

In my point of view it's normal tu see France really that strong because it was in history the major continental power in Europe.
For me the most op country right now is Austria, when does in history Austria has been this strong in central europe? I have never seen Austria being crushed, each time the king of Burgundy dies he blobs as hell so i don't understand this "France op" and nothing about Austria.

Austria by itself was never 'super op' irl, but the Habsburgs did control the most power european empire during much of the time frame. Unfortunately the union of Spain and Austria never happens.

 

[Qoff]

France is OP in the early game but you can beat them after a while.

 

[misterbean]

Even France can bite off more than it can chew. In my game this morning, they were at war with Castile, Austria, Burgundy and Brittany plus a bunch of HRE minors and Aragon. They peaced out Castile and Austria, but lost half a dozen provinces to Burgundy and two to Brittany. If that Brittany had been a human player, the results would have been far worse, since about 3/4 of their land was occupied by the time they surrendered.

 

[Aries666]

France is OP in the early game but you can beat them after a while.

Quite the opposite in my opinion France is trivial to beat at game start and they never recover from that 1st war. If you let them unify the French region and lowlands you have to spend a century out expanding them in order to take them on.

 

[Gaamel]

In the hands of the AI : yes France is OP, this country is the best ally you could dream of. A massive military power bordering countries you want to keep in check (Spain, Austria, Burgundy). Want to cripple early colonial Castille? Ally France before attacking, this is guaranteed free warscore.

When played by a human : yes you have a very good starting position, a lot of cores to reclaim, massive BT and manpower. But when you're done with Provence, Brittany and Burgundy, you generally have no more "worthy" allies (Denmark and Sweden might be allies but tend to switch protestant), unless you manage to remain in good terms with Austria. Expanding eastwards means no more alliance with Austria and coalitions against you. You can't go to Italy either, unless you wait till the inheritance of Anjou happens.
Colonial France is fun, but if you do that your military sucks and you'll be raped by Spain and Austria on land.

 

[PouetVL]

france is exactly where it should be, very strong nation
human player won't do the same mistake as the leaders of France did

most game you play end up with a very strong France...
well if you remember your history, a 5'6 guy named Napoleon allied and conquered pretty much all europe in less then 10 years.
I think paradox made it exactly where it should be.

 

[Agoria]

"and buffing the nearby great powers (like Austria and Castille)"
Worst idea ever.
In a lot of games, Austria inherits Burgundy and thus becomes VERY powerful and they do what they want in the HRE wether they are emperor or not.
Castile is just fine, making them more powerful will break the balance with muslims making the Reconquista even easier.
And in early games, it's common to see allied iberians crushing them (especially when France is at war with england and/or Burgundy/Austria).
If the problem is with France, change something on France or its vassals.

I personally think that they are a bit OP, but not much.
Changed things must not affect the early games, to prevent France being eaten by iberians or stronk Austria.

france is exactly where it should be, very strong nation
human player won't do the same mistake as the leaders of France did

most game you play end up with a very strong France...
well if you remember your history, a 5'6 guy named Napoleon allied and conquered pretty much all europe in less then 10 years.
I think paradox made it exactly where it should be.

As a french, it's a but exagerated and anyway Napoléon is just a very small part of the total era covered by the game.

 

[Krajzen]

France is exactly as OP as it was IRL so I see no problem

 

[dav77-b]

France OP? Am I playing a different game? In my games since 1.8 it has difficult times. France always tries to eat Burgundy , succesfully. But only to face a huge coalition afterwards and has to release guyenne. Meanwhile England has more income than France , Ottomans , Castilla
and Austria combined. France needs some pcenturies to become a real threat as Spain & ze Kaiser always ally versus them.

 

[artemis667]

It's hard to give a yes or no answer to this question.

French dominance is still probable, but it's not a foregone conclusion. I'm happy in 1.8, with the balance changes they've made to neighbouring powers, that France isn't 'overpowered' to a level where it concerns me.

 

[nalfz]

France is a bit OP. It's just ridiculous if you leave lucky nations on though, which I never do
But come on really, france was pretty blobby in real life too, AND it would have been far more blobby if all of europe hadn't got together and torn them to shreds like what happens in 90% of my games

 

[LiberiusX]

France is a bit OP. It's just ridiculous if you leave lucky nations on though, which I never do
But come on really, france was pretty blobby in real life too, AND it would have been far more blobby if all of europe hadn't got together and torn them to shreds like what happens in 90% of my games

Revanche! Rache! Restore Alsace-Lorraine to its rightful home!!!

for some reason your .gif makes me want to play Vicky 2.

 

[wolffrnd]

France is OP.

However, they should be OP. They were the BBB in real life too. In my opinion...WAD.

 

[G_Morgan]

France is OP.

However, they should be OP. They were the BBB in real life too. In my opinion...WAD.

To be fair France gets larger than it did historically because the great powers are useless at responding to it. Historically the world was about France. You were either with France or against France. Largely anyone with any power were in the against block. It took an alliance of everyone to contain France as described in that gif.

 

[Lord Finnish]

I've had three games in 1.8 so far, and every time I've seen France get slammed in several wars either by Spain or by Austria/HRE.

If they are OP they sure aren't as OP as they used to be.

 

[Quantum_AI]

No nation is OP in EUIV (except mighty Ulm). I was a bit surprised to find France usually making less money than the Iberians, English, Russians and even the Dutch in 1.8. In fact, in most of my games they are rarely in the top three military wise as well.

 

[Vityviktor]

France is OP and scary. I know France was a powerful and scary country (with a lot of manpower), but they weren't terminators.

 

[yerm]

France is OP. Do not nerf.

The problem with France that makes it OP, in my experience, is NOT the luck bonus, and my suspicion is that it is because all their big neighbors are losing that bonus too. With luck off you regularly see Ottomans get curbed by neighbors and even byzantine pop back up, you see Muscovy fail and sometimes Novgorod piles into it, you often never see Sweden... but I rarely see France lose with luck on OR off.

My issue with France is not morale. Please keep elan; their uber armies are fine. My problem is generally manpower. I have seen France get ganged and walk away fine; they may have to drop territory, but they are back in the game faster than anyone else. Austria always sucks with manpower and Castile still rarely keeps up, while France gets a boost plus its territories and more if luck's on. If England, Austria, Castile, and Burgundy all attack and win, France will STILL have its army back to 100% first (excepting an unused English one). In the meantime, if it lost a lot than the truce is gonna be long, and Brittany or Savoy etc. are gonna lose their land in the meantime. If France gets crushed as a lucky nation it's because they foolishly gave things away in multiple separate peace deals - I have NEVER seen them fail to outperform pre-napoleon history, ever, unless this happens or I do something to them myself. In my most recent game (byz) I saw them SP repeatedly for war reparations and dumb crap, so my suspicion is this is going to be normal now (AI loves them some war reparations) so France is probably less likely to get carved up than it ever was.

My solution is NOT to nerf France. They should be strong, OP even, and that's a good thing. This game is set to end around the time of Napoleon anyway so don't change the BBB being the final boss. Instead, I would like to see some historical rivalries dropped on them extremely hard. I'd say rivalries with England (of course) and Austria (of course), and with Burgundy and Brandenburg/Prussia. Some kind of malus from the entire HRE would be pretty solid. I don't want France to have it's strength touched, and I rather like how well it can recover from a loss, I just want to see it fail at having friends. Make them ally the Ottomans (which is historical) because nobody likes them back home.