A plea about how paradox is dumbing down the games.

[Hagie Sophia]

No, I'm just not an idiot.

lol, I figured as much. That is a common reaction :rofl:

Next time you see a soldier, make sure you tell him that you think he's an idiot. Ya know, that soldier who, by the very act of being a soldier, has indicated that he is willing to die for you and your right to call him an idiot.

But as I said, I figured as much...most people who are, in reality cowards, figure out some way to rationalize it, lol :wacko:

I think it's kinda funny, though, that you want to play soldier in a game, but unwilling (or unable? both?) to do so in real life.

Now, I'll ask again...if anyone else wants to make a non-game related comment, please refrain from doing so in the open forum. Use the PM option, ok?

 

[Sovereign]

Why wouldn't you want to be a soldier? Are you a coward? Your country and freedom are not worth fighting for? Do you believe that "someone else" will always be there to stand up and fight for you if necessary?

Anyway, yes, food production was abstracted a bit in HOI...you have agriculture techs which helped increase manpower and you have supplies. Remember, if you run out of supplies, dissent starts going way up real fast. You also have transport capacity, which affects supply efficiency.

Point is is, this is a strategic game...I don't want to have to click the mouse every time I need an MRE handed out to an individual soldier. The basic idea in HOI, I think, is fine...you have to dedicate some of your IC to producing supplies, you have to research techs to become more efficient, you have to make sure your transport capacity is not overloaded, etc. Those are the things a real government/military leadership has to deal with in war. Let the MREs get handed out by the supply sergeants.

Were my country to be invaded, I would be a resistance fighter, a militia fighter, an insurgent. But I will not give my life to some General who takes his instructions from some politician. Nationalism, Flag, Freedom&Democracy, WarOnTerror, Honour, Fatherland, Manhood", these are symbols, slogans and words easily used to manipulate young men into killing folk (for the most part civilians) in foreign countries, or in some cases even the same country. History is full of such lessons, in my opinion the logical outcome of militarism and the glorification of military service in the army is fascism.

I like strategy games, not war, I have found life is best for loving, not marching as ordered across some map in pursuit of some players agenda, another unit of manpower, crew-cut, Hoo-aghh, hell no, my lifes my own, I'm Sovereign.

So anyway back on topic, I think HoI3 could do with a certain amount of Vickyification if only to have more interesting ways to break the opposition. I'd want just enough complexity to have more interesting ways to dismantle the enemies war machine, the greater the complexity, the greater the range of strategies and tactics available. I'm for the most part fine with the way supplies work in the game, it's just that you don't pour oil, metals and rare materials into factories and out comes food. One more resource is all I ask, produced in abundance in places like the American breadbaskets and parts of Europe, Russia, Africa and Asia that means one more vital resource to control, regions to have as an objective, supply lines to cut of from the enemy etc because hey, armies march on their stomachs and man-power doesn't acquire (like plants) its mass from carbon-dioxide in the air and humans don't eat things like bauxite, bitumen or iron-ore.

 

[Hagie Sophia]

Were my country to be invaded, I would be a resistance fighter, a militia fighter, an insurgent. But I will not give my life to some General who takes his instructions from some politician. Nationalism, Flag, Freedom&Democracy, WarOnTerror, Honour, Fatherland, Manhood", these are symbols, slogans and words easily used to manipulate young men into killing folk (for the most part civilians) in foreign countries, or in some cases even the same country. History is full of such lessons, in my opinion the logical outcome of militarism and the glorification of military service in the army is fascism.

I like strategy games, not war, I have found life is best for loving, not marching as ordered across some map in pursuit of some players agenda, another unit of manpower, crew-cut, Hoo-aghh, hell no, my lifes my own, I'm Sovereign.

Maybe you'll learn, once you get a little older, study a little more, get a little more life experience, that it's the marching, crew-cut, hooah-hooah grunt that stands between you and real fascism.

But you're right...your life is your own. You are sovereign. Thanks to a soldier

So anyway back on topic, I think HoI3 could do with a certain amount of Vickyification if only to have more interesting ways to break the opposition. I'd want just enough complexity to have more interesting ways to dismantle the enemies war machine, the greater the complexity, the greater the range of strategies and tactics available.

Yeah, back on topic...USE THE PM OPTION. Seriously.

 

[unmerged(81228)]

And here is the point where you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

Hearts of Iron is part of a series, yes. That doesn't mean Paradox can just take the existing HOI code and start adding stuff to it! In fact, it would be an extremely bad idea to do so.

Why?

Because HOI II is built around the excessively old Europa game engine

It is misunderstanging. Tiny in size but significantly in meaning

I didn't mean taking code, I rather meant ideas, solutions. The level of detail used in HoI2 is all right in military aspect -some work on it and that's it. Now it is time to start working on the rest of a game.

lol, I figured as much. That is a common reaction

Next time you see a soldier, make sure you tell him that you think he's an idiot.

If YOU call people who are not going to kill others COWARDS, yes, in fact I'm to going to call soldiers an idiots.
WHO ARE YOU TO CALL ME A COWARD???!!!
Stick your ideas back in dark XX century hole they are coming from.

Yeah, back on topic...USE THE PM OPTION. Seriously.

Yes, use it next time before you start off topic. Of, even better, think before you post. Seriously.

 

[Evie HJ]

Yeah, but the problem is, the time and money they need to spend is for coding, testing and fixing features. Not for coming up with ideas.

Hence why there are limits to what they can put in the game, and why they have to stay focused.

They can add a few new features, and certainly will (EU III introduced national idea, advisors, unit types, etc). But huge large-scale addition like even a Vicky-lite socio-economic system are a lot harder to implement, and cost a lot more.

And thus, they have to chose the feature (for the base game) more likely to directly serve the core features of the game (again, the global war)

 

[Merrivale]

Yeah, back on topic...USE THE PM OPTION. Seriously.

Dude, you should have taken your own advice to begin with, if you want to start something with someone in the general forum, be prepared for people to respond to you in the general forum. I know a PM isn't as satisfying as a public smackdown, but the person who took the whole discussion off-topic was you.

 

[unmerged(96020)]

Isn't there like a rule somewhere that says that every game sequel will have at least one thread dedicated to it with the words "dumbing down" and its grammatical variations in the thread's topic title?

People, if you start thinking that a game is going to be dumbed down, be very careful and re-analyze your position: find supporting factors that contribute to your opinion and prepare to articulate them to yourself clearly, see if they make logical sense to you, not just a "gut feeling." Of course you may be right -- often, in fact, I'd say you are totally right. However, if it's "just a feeling" or if your reasons end up being some messy irrelevant points brought on by self-inflicted pessimism, then I'd bet my precious panzer division on you being very wrong and very annoying too.

Seriously, if you want to discuss food as a resource, discuss food as a resource. I have my own issues with HOI2 too that food as a resource can potentially solve -- the strategic worthlessness of agricultural nations...and an entire continent, not to mention vast patches of the planet's surface that should have been worth conquering -- though I hardly mind other solutions. If you want to argue a case for Vickynomics in HOI, do so (though, seriously, can't these arguments stay in one bloody thread rather than spreading everywhere? It dilutes the arguments and a refuting response often finds scarce ears because advocates have already moved elsewhere, or refutations must be awkwardly repeated because the same thing has been posted in another thread...); but please, "dumbing down" is a phrase so horribly abused in the gaming community that you're better off treating it like Paradox has banned it alongside, well, you know.

Or at least find some support from previews, teasers, developers' comments, that type of stuff, not "because people are calling on the features I want introduced as unnecessary" or something equally asinine.

P.S. I'm not even going to touch (okay, I'm doing it right now) the issue of nostalgia-tinted lens being responsible for so much of the anti-[new game] sentiment.

 

[Hagie Sophia]

Dude, you should have taken your own advice to begin with, if you want to start something with someone in the general forum, be prepared for people to respond to you in the general forum. I know a PM isn't as satisfying as a public smackdown, but the person who took the whole discussion off-topic was you.

The off-topic original statement was made in the public forum, and I responded in the public forum. Then I asked for replies to be made in private. How am I in the wrong, exactly?

Ok, so from here on out, no more responding in public. If you don't PM me, consider your message unreceived.

 

[Darth Tracid]

SPAM WARNING.

and if I hear another post direct at someone personally, warnings WILL be sent.

 

[The_Carbonater]

I agree, for me ideal HoI3 would have economy and social model from Vic.

Agreed!

 

[Darth Tracid]

closed at thread starter´s request.